Broken Economy *HUGE PROBLEM*

[Lidren]

Just as my two cents. The default economy is broken. There are plenty of different ways to make it unbroken if you're a server owner or playing sp. I do totally agree that the default should be balanced. Maybe they should crowd source it and ask the servers with unbroken or less broken economies to show their hand.

It is literally impossible to do what you're talking about with trading between shops on Ragnarok. There are fewer shops, with less money. The economy is almost entirely player run, with the shops acting as a release valve and slow credit influx. I don't even think we have a single person with maxed credits yet.

 

[Valiant70]

Just as my two cents. The default economy is broken. There are plenty of different ways to make it unbroken if you're a server owner or playing sp. I do totally agree that the default should be balanced. Maybe they should crowd source it and ask the servers with unbroken or less broken economies to show their hand.

It is literally impossible to do what you're talking about with trading between shops on Ragnarok. There are fewer shops, with less money. The economy is almost entirely player run, with the shops acting as a release valve and slow credit influx. I don't even think we have a single person with maxed credits yet.

Okay, just keep cool and join Ragnarok Galaxy. LOL

In all seriousness though, different teams are working on different stuff all the time. There's a good chance someone is working on a well-balanced economy as we speak, which will be a lot better than anyone's "OHMYGOULOSHWHATTEHFOOTFIXITNAO!" solution.

 

[Calbiri]

I am aware of the issues with how shops and credits are currently set up in the default mode. I do appreciate threads discussing it, its just that there's only so much I can personally do with the configs. This is an issue that I will have to ask Schema's help with resolving in the code itself.

Currently, the shops are still set up and geared towards a more creative game-play mode. Although we have put effort into changing the crafting system, the NPC/trade portion of the economy has not been updated in some time. This isn't to say we are unaware of the issue, or haven't come up with solutions, I just have to keep these solutions on hold until I can convince Schema of its priority over any other features. Other features related to NPC's/Shops/Trade are not yet complete to our liking. As these features are updated (NPC factions, specialized trade routes/locations, more regional diversity, etc) we should also be able to refine how the credit economy is handled and balanced.

Generally, people want the option to buy low and sell high, while having to transit through a long or risky route in between. This needs to also be handled in a way that doesn't impinge on the more industrial oriented side of the economy (why craft if its easier to always just buy.)
While the solution to this in Multiplayer is relatively simple (limit the trade hubs to only ever carry blocks originally made by players) this solution wont work for single player. I humbly ask players to be patient with us as we work towards a better economy in the game as well as working on other features of the game that have taken precedent for the moment.

 

[K10wN]

How the shops get a full 50,000 stock of every item in a short space of time is just a big an issue as being able to buy that amount cheap from one shop, then sell it for high gain at the next.

I've watched the block dupe bugs in action, and then watched those players fill the shops with their duped blocks.

I will agree however, the difference in price between 'full stock' and 'no stock' is too great, and the ability to be able to use bulk buy/sell, and the shop price not updating realtime contributes to the issue. I have attempted to counter this by not letting the shops get as much money each 5 minute update, and reduce it's starting credits. If the shop is out of money, you're then limited on how much you can sell to it.

 

[Glutton]

In the mean time while the issue is known and in line to be worked on, try limiting the max amount a shop can have (in regards to money) at 1/25th the current amount and have its starting amount even less.

Bam boom more than 1 day of trading to get a titan.

I know that was not the point of this thread, but the point of this thread was the same as all the others. It has been confirmed that the issue is now known and a few suggestions were given in the thread.

Good job everyone

 

[Bloodlance]

I am aware of the issues with how shops and credits are currently set up in the default mode. I do appreciate threads discussing it, its just that there's only so much I can personally do with the configs. This is an issue that I will have to ask Schema's help with resolving in the code itself.

Currently, the shops are still set up and geared towards a more creative game-play mode. Although we have put effort into changing the crafting system, the NPC/trade portion of the economy has not been updated in some time. This isn't to say we are unaware of the issue, or haven't come up with solutions, I just have to keep these solutions on hold until I can convince Schema of its priority over any other features. Other features related to NPC's/Shops/Trade are not yet complete to our liking. As these features are updated (NPC factions, specialized trade routes/locations, more regional diversity, etc) we should also be able to refine how the credit economy is handled and balanced.

Generally, people want the option to buy low and sell high, while having to transit through a long or risky route in between. This needs to also be handled in a way that doesn't impinge on the more industrial oriented side of the economy (why craft if its easier to always just buy.)
While the solution to this in Multiplayer is relatively simple (limit the trade hubs to only ever carry blocks originally made by players) this solution wont work for single player. I humbly ask players to be patient with us as we work towards a better economy in the game as well as working on other features of the game that have taken precedent for the moment.

Nice,

As long as we all remember that stealth ships with jump drives are easy to get (energy stable) and trading with them is 100% risk free.
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How the shops get a full 50,000 stock of every item in a short space of time is just a big an issue as being able to buy that amount cheap from one shop, then sell it for high gain at the next.

I've watched the block dupe bugs in action, and then watched those players fill the shops with their duped blocks.

I will agree however, the difference in price between 'full stock' and 'no stock' is too great, and the ability to be able to use bulk buy/sell, and the shop price not updating realtime contributes to the issue. I have attempted to counter this by not letting the shops get as much money each 5 minute update, and reduce it's starting credits. If the shop is out of money, you're then limited on how much you can sell to it.

The problem is how shops and trade stations work.

Every shop and trade station has a different FIXED price on all items tied to one universal % amount.

The problem is not the amount of no amount, the problem is the price differences when the shops SPAWN. The initial spawning of a shop ties its pricing to a set amount x% +quantity

and the quantity does not effec the price much

Ie.
I can find a shop with shield prices around 2000 credits per one , and even if i sell 50 000 shields to it, the price hardly change. BUT if a Admin or a shop SPAWN with 50 000 items in it, the price is very low.

So there is a difference how and when the items are injected to the shops and trade stations.

 

[Bloodlance]

Solution to 100% safe trading could be as follows, (so its not 100% safe and fool proof).

Players can not buy stuff from shops or trade stations directly, all bought items would go from shop/trade station to => storage containers => storage containers could be only unloaded to a starbase or planet (or what ever base) when docked.

SO change => cloaked ships could not be cloaked if a cloaked ship has a storage container in the ship itself. Making trading visible and not 100% cloaked.

Sidenote , any storage container destroyed would make -50% of the items destroyed and rest would be recoverable normally.