block hp increase, since shields are hard to make

[Criss]

Have you seen any of my ships, nothing is wasted. If you have power problems then you need to add more power. Your ship's turrets should be self sufficient in power, or your ship should compensate with additional capacity or regeneration to operate all turrets. It is about sustainability, now I take it your ship is burst damage and setup, but what if you face more than one enemy. Your done then. Van have you ever seen any of my large ships? There is a balance that must be made.

I could ask you the same. Have you seen my ships? My ships are based on eve online ships down to the numbers. This is how those ships operate amd I've already had individuals tell me it was a worthwhioe experience using them.

Again, I am building the ship this way on purpose. If anything I could decrease the amount of power and probably get what I wanted out of it still.

 

[Leanson]

I have and played with one as well. And I know what you do and such, it's hard to build exact replicas of ships, even harder to make them perform well. I still think armor should have more hp, mainly because it just simply isn't enough to withstand a fighter attacking advanced armor. Advance at least should be way for the the amount of resources it costs.
I try not to give my ships out.. bad things happen when I do.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Should HP and armor get a buff? Probably. Should the game be balanced for your ideal ship size? No definitely not. Should the game be balanced with any one ship size in mind? Still no. Just imagine how long a fighter on fighter (under 50 Mass) battle would last if hull was tweaked to withstand several seconds of fire from a 40k mass ship.

The economy is changing, it will be impractical for everybody and their mother to be flying around in a breadnaught. If you can't afford to acquire/buy/craft shield generators for large ships then maybe these large ships packed full of shields in every crevice are no longer the ideal "end all be all" they once were.

 

[Leanson]

Should HP and armor get a buff? Probably. Should the game be balanced for your ideal ship size? No definitely not. Should the game be balanced with any one ship size in mind? Still no. Just imagine how long a fighter on fighter (under 50 Mass) battle would last if hull was tweaked to withstand several seconds of fire from a 40k mass ship.

The economy is changing, it will be impractical for everybody and their mother to be flying around in a breadnaught. If you can't afford to acquire/buy/craft shield generators for large ships then maybe these large ships packed full of shields in every crevice are no longer the ideal "end all be all" they once were.

Do you play the game lately and how how much it sucks making shields. It sucks. Armor costs so much o make, and it's not even fucking worth making because of its hp value and performance compared to the other blocks. When it is at a scale of ship that the average people use. Since we can't buy ships anymore with credits, and advance armor is freaking expensive it would make sense if they had some real value, opposed for just looks as many use it now. Who builds breadnoughts? Not I nor do it.

To answer your question if that fighter had advance hull, that are expensive as shit to make.. all over his ship, yes it should be able to take a beating against a 40k mass ship and not be instantly zapped. Because it is so costly to make, very few could afford to armor a 40k mass ship with it, they will armor a small fighter tho because it is easier to have it on their. Dude did you read this post at all, or did you just comment?

 

[Criss]

Advanced hull is advanced, and because people plate their entire ships in it, the devs made it expensive. There are 2 other hull blocks and some players never touch them. It's time we introduce them as a viable option for early construction

Shields cost more because players used this instead of learning how to armor tank. The devs wanted it to be used less. It is obvious that it is harder to get now by many degrees.

Hull cannot have changes made to it's values that do not also affect gameplay. More HP on hull means smaller ships cannot fight as effectively as larger ships.

Weapons cannot have their damages nerfed any lower, or they will not do any damage at all in some instances (cannon-cannon combo)
I also heard that they are more expensive now. I have no idea how much more expensive, but I hope it is true.

Players should be building defensively first and with hull, because it is the cheapest option. They should begin to amass offensive weapons over time. They will acquire shielding even slower. All these changes were designed to force hull over shields and defense over offense. This is something I have heard from the devs directly. I do not know how effective it is yet. The issues is that we, again, are using ships from a system that is outdated and impractical. If we cannot gather enough shields for our ships, maybe it's because that is not how we should be playing anymore. Just saying.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Do you play the game lately and how how much it sucks making shields. It sucks. Armor costs so much o make, and it's not even fucking worth making because of its hp value and performance compared to the other blocks. When it is at a scale of ship that the average people use. Since we can't buy ships anymore with credits, and advance armor is freaking expensive it would make sense if they had some real value, opposed for just looks as many use it now. Who builds breadnoughts? Not I nor do it.

To answer your question if that fighter had advance hull, that are expensive as shit to make.. all over his ship, yes it should be able to take a beating against a 40k mass ship and not be instantly zapped. Because it is so costly to make, very few could afford to armor a 40k mass ship with it, they will armor a small fighter tho because it is easier to have it on their. Dude did you read this post at all, or did you just comment?

I specifically said a fighter on fighter battle, if a fighter can "Take a beating against a 40k mass ship" then the fights between two equal small ships would take ungodly long

 

[Leanson]

Long battles would be fun, battles are to short now. Those who fight know better.[DOUBLEPOST=1417811901,1417810804][/DOUBLEPOST]

Advanced hull is advanced, and because people plate their entire ships in it, the devs made it expensive. There are 2 other hull blocks and some players never touch them. It's time we introduce them as a viable option for early construction

Shields cost more because players used this instead of learning how to armor tank. The devs wanted it to be used less. It is obvious that it is harder to get now by many degrees.

Hull cannot have changes made to it's values that do not also affect gameplay. More HP on hull means smaller ships cannot fight as effectively as larger ships.

Weapons cannot have their damages nerfed any lower, or they will not do any damage at all in some instances (cannon-cannon combo)
I also heard that they are more expensive now. I have no idea how much more expensive, but I hope it is true.

Players should be building defensively first and with hull, because it is the cheapest option. They should begin to amass offensive weapons over time. They will acquire shielding even slower. All these changes were designed to force hull over shields and defense over offense. This is something I have heard from the devs directly. I do not know how effective it is yet. The issues is that we, again, are using ships from a system that is outdated and impractical. If we cannot gather enough shields for our ships, maybe it's because that is not how we should be playing anymore. Just saying.

This would be good, but, hulls are to weak, going up against a pirate station with advanced hull and tanking damage, your hull will not last long at all.

 

[Criss]

Long battles would be fun, battles are to short now. Those who fight know better.[DOUBLEPOST=1417811901,1417810804][/DOUBLEPOST]
This would be good, but, hulls are to weak, going up against a pirate station with advanced hull and tanking damage, your hull will not last long at all.

Skip to 8 minutes. You will see the ship is equipped with an 8% bonus. An 80% bonus is the max. I think if I needed to it would be possible to armor tank a pirate station.

 

[Lecic]

It's not really possible. Maximum block HP, in the code, is 256.

I wouldn't mind if the HP of all armors was boosted by 50. 100 for basic, 150 for standard, 250 for hardened.

What we really need is some kind of combined HP pool for all hull blocks. So, if 50 standard hull was all connected, it'd have 5000 HP, at which point individual blocks count be destroyed.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Skip to 8 minutes. You will see the ship is equipped with an 8% bonus. An 80% bonus is the max. I think if I needed to it would be possible to armor tank a pirate station.

Much agreed. I personally build ships with full interiors so my armaments will always be smaller for the size of my ships, I've found that they are fairly well balanced and I do pack them with as many guns as I can. While I may not be in a PVP clan I combat test every ship I build in fights with themselves, better enemies, and waves of weak enemies. I still don't know how hard it will be to acquire these ships in a "legit" play through as I am still trying to refit them for the latest updates.

 

[Leanson]

Much agreed. I personally build ships with full interiors so my armaments will always be smaller for the size of my ships, I've found that they are fairly well balanced and I do pack them with as many guns as I can. While I may not be in a PVP clan I combat test every ship I build in fights with themselves, better enemies, and waves of weak enemies. I still don't know how hard it will be to acquire these ships in a "legit" play through as I am still trying to refit them for the latest updates.

In EE, interiors are second, stations are meant for interiors lol. It it rough to, you don't want your ship to die so you do what it takes so that don't happen. People most times will do the most logical thing for their ships, at times that calls for a focus and obtain needed resources first. Combat testing ships is a must, finding ships it's own mass is good as well. If you want I can help test some of your ships if you like. My faction does alot of pvp. And getting resources the legit way Takes work, if you see what it takes for basic, advance and standard hull. You will go for standard for it cost is ok.

 

[PizzaPress]

The two things I worry about with grouped armor systems is how different shapes may or may not work and how big an armor group can or can't be. But without some kind of scaling mechanic, armor seems to be ineffective at large scale or indestructible at small scale.
(Aside from grouped armor, I'm not really sure how different shapes at different sizes work with how much you can stuff in there with a certain amount of hull layers and how many blocks are needed for same protection.)

 

[Lecic]

The two things I worry about with grouped armor systems is how different shapes may or may not work and how big an armor group can or can't be. But without some kind of scaling mechanic, armor seems to be ineffective at large scale or indestructible at small scale.
(Aside from grouped armor, I'm not really sure how different shapes at different sizes work with how much you can stuff in there with a certain amount of hull layers and how many blocks are needed for same protection.)

Well, currently, with each shield capacitor, you get around 55 shields per block, I think. Armor has the advantage of more HP given per block. However, armor is only as strong as you make the armor thick, so unless you make your ship have obscenely thick armor, regenerating, ship-wide shield systems seem to be supreme.

 

[Criss]

There are ships I plan on building with my current style (limited systems, full interiors) that have armor plates around 15 blocks thick. I imagine that even the large turrets that I fit onto that ship will have trouble eating large portions of it away.

I suggested a HP system to calbiri so that armor had some value. He seemed to like the basic principal that we have already. That blasting a hole through a ship should do just that and nothing more. I'm not sure I explained it properly at the time. I think when they say HP system, what they really mean is that a certain % of the ship needs to be destroyed before overheating the core or killing the pilot. That was after all the main purpose given for introducing the HP system.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Okay after playing legit for a few hours I have to say whatever material you need to make shields is bloody hard to find, I got my salvager blown up by an Isanth Zero Mb before I ever found any.

 

[PizzaPress]

Okay after playing legit for a few hours I have to say whatever material you need to make shields is bloody hard to find, I got my salvager blown up by an Isanth Zero Mb before I ever found any.

I think larimar asteroids are bugged.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

I think larimar asteroids are bugged.

Yeah so far I've seen two, one in each universe I loaded. I was lucky the second universe as it was in 2 2 2. but the stupid thing won't regenerate so I can't get any more shields.

 

[refirendum]

ideas i support:
-hull-HP pool added to shield number as a secondary Structural-Integrity number that cannot recharge unless the ship is repaired with astrobeam. (please make AI capable of using repair beams and redocking to ship docks. this would greatly increase their usage among players if AI were able to use them and structural integrity of your ship relied on them. it would mean most ships would have to carry a small handful of repair AI, creating a balance of how much space do devote to repair drone enclosures vs power/attack/defend systems)
-hull armor bonuses for each touching face to another hull that has armor % rating
-buffing production ease of shields and armored blocks

but i do NOT support the implementation of any more than one of the above balance changes.

 

[Leanson]

Skip to 8 minutes. You will see the ship is equipped with an 8% bonus. An 80% bonus is the max. I think if I needed to it would be possible to armor tank a pirate station.

What you just showed me was that I should limit my weapons because the armor is too weak. That if I am to lower my weapon damage and fire rate because it will match were the armor can keep up and the other players stand a chance. It also showed me that your vision of balance is a bit off when it comes to building. Your ship looks good, but as a show ship it is nothing more. Calibri may have told you that our weapon our over size, but when the majority of players have weapons that can not keep up with the armor system. Something has to be done. It is not the few who disregards the majorities ideas and suggestions as have been done recently.

ideas i support:
-hull-HP pool added to shield number as a secondary Structural-Integrity number that cannot recharge unless the ship is repaired with astrobeam. (please make AI capable of using repair beams and redocking to ship docks. this would greatly increase their usage among players if AI were able to use them and structural integrity of your ship relied on them. it would mean most ships would have to carry a small handful of repair AI, creating a balance of how much space do devote to repair drone enclosures vs power/attack/defend systems)
-hull armor bonuses for each touching face to another hull that has armor % rating
-buffing production ease of shields and armored blocks

but i do NOT support the implementation of any more than one of the above balance changes.

These are good ideas and I do support them, anything that improves the gameplay for the majority of players who do not limit themselves. The hp pool would be good because it offsets core drilling, and the added armor bonuses for touching armor blocks make layered hull a good addition to a ship. My ideas do not have to be implemented as long as the main problem is addressed and resolved.[DOUBLEPOST=1418000951,1418000886][/DOUBLEPOST]

Okay after playing legit for a few hours I have to say whatever material you need to make shields is bloody hard to find, I got my salvager blown up by an Isanth Zero Mb before I ever found any.

That is what I am saying, it is hard to find what you need. Armor needs to fit what people are currently needed it to do and go against.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

ideas i support:
-hull-HP pool added to shield number as a secondary Structural-Integrity number that cannot recharge unless the ship is repaired with astrobeam. (please make AI capable of using repair beams and redocking to ship docks. this would greatly increase their usage among players if AI were able to use them and structural integrity of your ship relied on them. it would mean most ships would have to carry a small handful of repair AI, creating a balance of how much space do devote to repair drone enclosures vs power/attack/defend systems)
-hull armor bonuses for each touching face to another hull that has armor % rating
-buffing production ease of shields and armored blocks

but i do NOT support the implementation of any more than one of the above balance changes.

I am wholly against a second shield (structural integrity field) based on armor. I have been a supporter of the localized HP/Armor bonus for armor blocks though so you actually get more benefit from layered armor over there just being more of it. I also wouldn't mind it being a little less involved to acquire hardened hull either. Crafting shields isn't difficult other than the resources being so rare. Although I did find an ice planet that has two plates with Sertise and Rammat for shields as well as Hital for cannons. I wanted to avoid having to strip mine a planet but oh well...