At this point, will the devs listen to the playerbase even?

[FlyingDebris]

Schine has fallen victim to the escalation of commitment, they are so invested and have put enough time into their "perfect" power system that they are 100% completely opposed to any suggestion of changing or removing anything involving it.

If Schine continues down this line, this game is doomed to fail. Simple as that.

Even if a majority of the vocal playerbase wants power 2.0 to be changed (or outright removed), Schine had made it clear in their responses:

"Fuck the players of our game, their opinions don't matter, we are going to do it this way"

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II - Wikipedia

 

[Edymnion]

I really don't know whether Schema himself is at fault here, if he reads the forums to any meaningful extent or relies completely on intermediaries. But the one thing that I definitely do know is that communication between him and us is essentially broken, and we can't expect him to listen to our concerns if he isn't hearing them, or can't hear them, or is only hearing what he's told through channels that may easily be distorted.
Something's gotta change in order to keep the community healthy. We need a week or a month or however long it takes for Schema to take a break from coding and come here and talk with us, person to person, so he can understand our viewpoints and we can understand his.

Well, most of the moderate people have left the forum because of the same handful of people doing nothing but spewing bile and screaming nonstop.

There's really no point in being here anymore since if you aren't part of the "Schema is horrible!" clique you just get shouted down.

I still play, I just don't bother checking the forums anymore on a regular basis because there is nothing left here worth reading. The old sense of community and friendliness is long since gone due to some very elitist players who can't seem to accept that they aren't the ones in charge.

If Schema is no longer listening to the feedback on these forums, its because the feedback on these forums is no longer civil enough to deserve to be listened to.

 

[DoomCarrot]

Well, most of the moderate people have left the forum because of the same handful of people doing nothing but spewing bile and screaming nonstop.

There's really no point in being here anymore since if you aren't part of the "Schema is horrible!" clique you just get shouted down.

I still play, I just don't bother checking the forums anymore on a regular basis because there is nothing left here worth reading. The old sense of community and friendliness is long since gone due to some very elitist players who can't seem to accept that they aren't the ones in charge.

If Schema is no longer listening to the feedback on these forums, its because the feedback on these forums is no longer civil enough to deserve to be listened to.

THIS is exactly ehat I was trying to imply with Op. thank you for saying this better than I ever could. Th vile fan vs dev attitude is driving away players, it is pointless, and it WILL KILL this game

 

[Crashmaster]

There's really no point in being here anymore since if you aren't part of the "Schema is horrible!" clique you just get shouted down.

Don't forget about getting shouted down for pathetic virtue signaling.

 

[MacThule]

Well, most of the moderate people have left the forum because of the same handful of people doing nothing but spewing bile and screaming nonstop.

There's really no point in being here anymore since if you aren't part of the "Schema is horrible!" clique you just get shouted down.

I still play, I just don't bother checking the forums anymore on a regular basis because there is nothing left here worth reading. The old sense of community and friendliness is long since gone due to some very elitist players who can't seem to accept that they aren't the ones in charge.

If Schema is no longer listening to the feedback on these forums, its because the feedback on these forums is no longer civil enough to deserve to be listened to.

Agreed, and this comes back down to being a PR failure. The forum should have been more tightly moderated, as an official venue. Players can set up their own informal forums to spew bile - freeze peach accomplished.

 

[DoomCarrot]

Defeatism is cowardice.

I refuse to back down from my position even if my criticism of the new system hurts their feelings. I refuse to let the sunk cost fallacy ruin a game with so much potential.

And as you have that right, I also have the right to call out that attitude as being absolutely self destructive to this game at this point

 

[MacThule]

THIS is exactly ehat I was trying to imply with Op. thank you for saying this better than I ever could. Th vile fan vs dev attitude is driving away players, it is pointless, and it WILL KILL this game

Naw.

The devs can always just delete or lock this forum and migrate the community content to a new forum with stricter moderation once they go Beta and people can't flip out because "it's alpha so you need to let us curse at you!" The kind of shenanigans you see here are easily kept out of forums.

 

[Lecic]

Look, Starmade might be promoted when it has more than the new power and weapons.

Did you allready know, that the dev wants to wait with making the game attractive, until it is in a more finished state? Last word I heard was that they want to wait until it's ready for a bigger audience. They don't want a lot of players right now.

It's likely that new planets and the updated faction as well as missions will be the goal. So now have a guess how long that will take to implement? I say more than 6 months, 8 to 12 months is very likely.

Okay so power hits in February. Now tell me if there will still be veterans left to complain on social media, after they played with the new power for over 6 months, or left the game earlier.

Do you think the power complaints will still be there in the third or fourth quartal of this year?

So you are of the opinion that an update that is so bad that it entirely wipes out the existing population is ok because those players won't be around to scare off new players, who will instead realize on their own how terrible the game is and leave of their own accord after playing for a few months?

Pro-Tip, when you make a bad game, cleaning your veterans out doesn't make it stop being a bad game. It just makes it so you earn a few more bucks off new people than you would otherwise. Are you in favor of people being mislead into buying a bad product?

There's really no point in being here anymore since if you aren't part of the "Schema is horrible!" clique you just get shouted down.

You can't argue for the update, so instead you strawman us and say we're just insulting the developers. This is a diversionary tactic. You cannot argue for the merits of your system so you attempt to tone police our criticism.
You cry wolf and claim you are not allowed to voice your opinion. This is laughable because all that occurs is your arguments being debunked, and you view people debunking your arguments as evil trolling, because you are childish and cannot accept criticism. No one has ever attempted to get your opinion moderated away, unlike other certain members of the forum do towards ours. When people on the Schine Defense Force claim that the evil experienced veterans are trying to force them away, it is plain and simple projection.

And as you have that right, I also have the right to call out that attitude as being absolutely self destructive to this game at this point

I don't own the rights to this game. It's not me being self destructive by giving my honest criticism on an update. It's Schine being self destructive by not listening to the vast majority of their long term players.

Naw.

The devs can always just delete or lock this forum and migrate the community content to a new forum with stricter moderation once they go Beta and people can't flip out because "it's alpha so you need to let us curse at you!" The kind of shenanigans you see here are easily kept out of forums.

Can't moderate Steam reviews. Make no mistake- Orwellian-tier control of the forums cannot and will not stop us from voicing our concerns. Now would you rather have us doing them here or on Steam, where negative comments will REALLY actively drive down sales and REALLY scare people away?

 

[Dire Venom]

All the devs need to do is release a short statement to calm people's fears imo.

I have seen some bashing of the devs, but on the whole it has been criticism of development builds alongside suggestions for less painful alternatives.

None of this has been recognized by the devs, poor Chris didn't even have a basic understanding of what the community's been discussing the past 6 months imo.
I think that says a lot considering these are the guys that communicate to Schema.

There was a promised meeting to sort these concerns out, but that was just delay after delay and then forgotten about.

 

[JinM]

So you are of the opinion that an update that is so bad that it entirely wipes out the existing population is ok because those players won't be around to scare off new players, who will instead realize on their own how terrible the game is and leave of their own accord after playing for a few months?

Pro-Tip, when you make a bad game, cleaning your veterans out doesn't make it stop being a bad game. It just makes it so you earn a few more bucks off new people than you would otherwise. Are you in favor of people being mislead into buying a bad product?

Nah my main point was, that if you are a veteran, you would not complain anymore after you played the game for 6 months with new power. I mean even the most ridiculous stuff get boring to complain about one day.
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All the devs need to do is release a short statement to calm people's fears imo.

I don't think that a statement would calm some people down.

 

[Dire Venom]

Nah my main point was, that if you are a veteran, you would not complain anymore after you played the game for 6 months with new power. I mean even the most ridiculous stuff get boring to complain about one day.

Quite true, we wouldn't complain, just go spend our time elsewhere doing something more enjoyable.
I'm sure many players have dropped games they used to enjoy, I've certiantly left some after 1k+ hours.

 

[Captain Fortius]

Nah my main point was, that if you are a veteran, you would not complain anymore after you played the game for 6 months with new power. I mean even the most ridiculous stuff get boring to complain about one day.

I guess you'd also make peace with your fate, give up on your escape attempts and stop resisting if you were locked up in some deranged hillbilly's basement for six months? :D

 

[JinM]

I guess you'd also make peace with your fate, give up on your escape attempts and stop resisting if you were locked up in some deranged hillbilly's basement for six months? :D

Maybe I would like being locked up in a deranged hillbilly's basement?

 

[MacThule]

Can't moderate Steam reviews. Make no mistake- Orwellian-tier control of the forums cannot and will not stop us from voicing our concerns. Now would you rather have us doing them here or on Steam, where negative comments will REALLY actively drive down sales and REALLY scare people away?

Come on now.

I am all about critical review. Don't lump yourself in with abusive communicators just because they use you as a shield to turn their gripes into personal attacks with impunity.

Complaining about individuals who personally insult and deride the developers is in no way a complaint about people who criticize game features or quality. Just as you frequently point out that we should speak out when features cause problems or we feel the devs are going the wrong way, for other reasons we should also speak out when a minority of players uses "mah critical feeedback!" as an excuse to behave abusively.

None of that translates to or is meant to imply that opposing any part or all of power 2.0 is abusive, BTW. Despite the fact that critics are already doing so on YouTube in a way that does drive sales down.

Neither is speaking out against abusive comms somehow a defense of bad design decisions though.

Anyway... I'm not making recommendations about the forums. Just pointing out a fact - if the devs get sick of this, they can walk away from it and spin hard. The point of me even mentioning that, if you look back, was refuting someone's notion that because a few ornery individuals may have made the docks a bit acid will somehow "kill the game."

I could be wrong, but that is my opinion - tanking the docks (should that even be the case, mind, I'm not implying that it is, just responding to a previous comment) isn't going to tank the game.

 

[GDPR 302420]

You can't argue for the update, so instead you strawman us and say we're just insulting the developers. This is a diversionary tactic. You cannot argue for the merits of your system so you attempt to tone police our criticism.
You cry wolf and claim you are not allowed to voice your opinion. This is laughable because all that occurs is your arguments being debunked, and you view people debunking your arguments as evil trolling, because you are childish and cannot accept criticism. No one has ever attempted to get your opinion moderated away, unlike other certain members of the forum do towards ours. When people on the Schine Defense Force claim that the evil experienced veterans are trying to force them away, it is plain and simple projection.

This is going in my signature, this statement is not only applicable to veteran players and people who have a clue criticising power 2.0, but relevant to almost every occasion in the past few months where veteran players criticised anything at all.

To all fanboys reading this, you know who you are: When you claim that the veteran players who criticise this game are in any way contributing to this games downfall, you are projecting and you are doing the very thing you are accusing us of.

 

[MacThule]

This is going in my signature, this statement is not only applicable to veteran players and people who have a clue criticising power 2.0, but relevant to almost every occasion in the past few months where veteran players criticised anything at all.

To all fanboys reading this, you know who you are: When you claim that the veteran players who criticise this game are in any way contributing to this games downfall, you are projecting and you are doing the very thing you are accusing us of.

It is very well writ.

Makes me want to see an "SDF1" badge awarded for 10+ reports, "SDF2" for 100+, etc...
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All the devs need to do is release a short statement to calm people's fears imo.

I have seen some bashing of the devs, but on the whole it has been criticism of development builds alongside suggestions for less painful alternatives.

None of this has been recognized by the devs, poor Chris didn't even have a basic understanding of what the community's been discussing the past 6 months imo.
I think that says a lot considering these are the guys that communicate to Schema.

There was a promised meeting to sort these concerns out, but that was just delay after delay and then forgotten about.

I agree. In fact, most of the bashing I have seen has been what I, personally, would reject for moderation. Calling them idiots or stupid for their decisions, while not generally something I like to do or think is in any way productive (at all), is just emoting. It's poor communication at worst. I don't think that in 3 years I've seen more outright abusive attacks on the devs than I can count on one hand. Not sure why it keeps coming up except I think some people are literally afraid that the devs will get offended and abandon.

Calling them stupid is rude and counterproductive, but I would hope they are adult enough not to take that personally. Compare to every other industry on planet Earth, including the game industry. Rough treatment is the norm (amd they are able to moderate more strictly and ask for more consideration on their own if it genuinely is an issue). I doubt that that is the real reason for their quietude.

What is it really? Only God knows.

And him only maybe.

 

[Micro753]

I am honestly just so sick of the drama. So many here are saying most players don't want the new power update/it'll break everything/etc., but I've talked with lots of players who want it who don't want to get involved in all the drama, or they don't use starmade dock (they get their info from the youtube videos on the starmade channel and play on the dev branch to see how they like it). Just because one side is way more vocal doesn't mean that's the one most players want/agree with.Only the players against it are making hundreds of threads about it, making it look like most of us hate it.
I'm not saying points against it aren't valid, but I do think the negatives of the current system don't make it feasible to keep without tons of changes, and with how many changes would be needed and the challenge of keeping it consistent with those changes, it is easier to start over with the new system, which in my opinion is simpler without stifling creativity (just changes how you'll have to be creative (and will need lots of testing and balancing (it's alpha, get used to balances being needed to make it perfect))), is more logical, making it easier to grasp the concepts, and is more consistent. Yes, there are some thing I think Schema is doing not quite the right way, but this is a huge leap in the right direction over the current power in my opinion.

 

[MacThule]

That a bit, yeah.

Too much melodrama from people actively, aggressively acting out like anyone who expresses a positive impression about literally any aspect of the game is out to get the persecuted game-critic minority then on the other side people who want to coddle the dev team as if they weren't grown-ass adults and businesspeople when their decisions are called as bad by the public.....

Septic intarwebitus has set in. Antibiotics are needed.

 

[DarkTranquility]

i honestly would not listen either. if feedback looks more like the worst of reddit political debate subs. the tone is condescending, full of contempt for him. i imagine he has a strong head to avoid feeling offended as his core players bicker. personally player retention should be a bigger worry for him. as these updates which greatly changes the game might kill the playerbase off..

i personally am more excited, with new blood. full servers, once this is all said and done. iv taken a break from the game for 6 months because it got very toxic, and simply not fun to play. i hope one thing is these updates when done. will bring new blood in and we have a game that can bring a great multiplayer experience. i just hope its not another 3 years before i see it

 

[NaStral]

I was reminded of this:

New Sound Album - TV Tropes