Astrotech Beams - Repairing the Entire Ship

[Kiithnaras]

So, an idea was had by my friend and I that we both feel would be conducive to both player-operated support ships as well as fleet-based repair drones.

First and foremost, the Astrotech beam should be able to heal both the Structure of a ship at a 1:1 ratio, and restore Armor at a 1:4 ratio (healing one fourth as much armor as it does structure. As the Astrotech beams restore Structure HP, all damaged blocks (not destroyed ones) on the ship would recover block HP as a proportion of the healing amount to the maximum Structure HP. This would be in addition to block-healing done by direct beam impact.

For instance, lets say I have a freighter that took some fire and has a few nice craters in it. It's maximum structure HP is 500k, only 100k Armor HP, and it's currently at about 20% AHP and 60% SHP (it really took a beating). I launch a repair drone that can do about 1k HP/sec of direct block healing and tell it to Repair/Support me. While its healing me, all damaged blocks will recover about 0.2% of their block-HP cap every second (1k/500k = 0.002 = 0.2%). In addition, the structure HP will go up by 1,000 HP per second, and the Armor HP will go up by 250 HP per second.

A system like this would enable Astrotechs to reach damaged blocks that are not on the surface, albeit at a slower rate than directly impacting upon them and enable remote repairs of structure and armor to increase ship survivability. It would also make repair drones a viable AI option since they are no longer required to exactly hit the damaged blocks. It also means that in order to effectively conduct repairs (or make the most of active-combat support drones) on larger vessels, larger arrays of Astrotechs are required.

While it is possible with this to completely restore a ship's numerical values for Structure and Armor HP, no destroyed blocks will be replaced by this method. Naturally, Astrotechs, similar to Power and Shield supply beams, would have to be disabled from affecting docked parents.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I thought the block HP resets with a reboot.

 

[Kiithnaras]

Block HP does not in fact reset upon a reboot. Structure and Armor HP reset based on the health of currently-existing blocks, but they do not repair damaged blocks. While this proposed mechanic for Astrotechs wouldn't negate the need to reboot an overheating ship, it would allow a critically-damaged ship to be repaired and recover system functionality without having to perform a reboot, letting it remain mobile and capable of defending itself while undergoing battlefield repairs.

 

[Nickizzy]

How would it know what blocks to replace first?

Btw, I have a C/P for this. It comes up every once and a while:

What if astrotech beams worked like salvage beams in reverse(smaeb egavlas). As in, they shot through the target until they hit a missing block,then they would, if they had it in their inventory, place the needed block. The catch is, the block would only have one HP and no AHP. Once all missing blocks within the beam had been replaced, it would start working from the back forward to heal block HP normally.* The AI would have a "constructor" mode, checkbox, that would work in the same order as the beam, but on an entity wide scale.

*It could also have the ability to heal AHP at a slower rate, such as 1/10th or so, but could only heal the amount a block had lost, so each block would have it's individual APH kept track of and be healed by astrotech.

Because of the aux reactor update, they couldn't heal their own ship as turrets either, so ships couldn't be self healing. They could have repairing drone fleets though.

 

[Kiithnaras]

I explicitly stated that Astrotechs as proposed would not replace destroyed blocks. All damaged blocks would recover their block-HP as a proportion of the healing applied to the ship's total health.

Replacing destroyed blocks should always be a function of the Shipyard.

 

[Nickizzy]

I explicitly stated that Astrotechs as proposed would not replace destroyed blocks. All damaged blocks would recover their block-HP as a proportion of the healing applied to the ship's total health.

Replacing destroyed blocks should always be a function of the Shipyard.

But then there's no reason to have them! How many times do you get into and out of fights where the majority of your blocks are damaged but not destroied? The scale of starmade means that most shots will completely destroy blocks instead of damaging them.

You could make them really slow, or power consuming, but if they can't replace blocks no matter what no one would use them.

 

[Kiithnaras]

Nickizzy , not necessarily true. The proposed mechanics would allow repair ships and drones to fully restore a ship's armor and structure values, allowing them to rebuild or continue fighting without having to reboot. It would be possible, for instance, to have an engineer in a build block replacing blocks manually, slapping on armor plates to protect damaged system areas, while player- or AI-controlled repair ships keep things in working order and prevent the ship from falling into Overheating status.

On the flip side, I could see an argument to use Astrotechs to place blocks with a special mode. The damaged ship would have to enter "Repair from Blueprint" mode. Doing so would make any missing blocks into Design-type virtual blocks, but it would disable the ship's shield and power systems while Repair mode was active. In this state, Astrotechs could replace missing blocks quickly from their own slaved cargo (or potentially cargo on the target ship). As with the OP, replacing blocks not hit by the astrotech beams (even assuming some form of beam pass-through capability) would be completed once the ship's Structure and Armor would be restored to 100%

 

[Napther]

What I'd like to see from Astrotechs is that they repair a "Minimal" amount of block damage on an entity "For free".

IE, A ship takes 50% AHP and 5% system HP and loses 300 blocks from it. Hitting the ship with an astrotech will regenerate a small amount of blocks only when the ship hasnt recently been struck, nor recently repaired without a reboot in between, or it has been repaired recently (EG, Can only be used once if ship has lost HP, and wasnt enough to reach 100% integrity - this further damage needs a deconstruct/shipyard to solve).

Therefore, the ship recoups its 300 blocks (Maybe consuming composite scrap, etc), regenerates the 5% lost system HP (the blocks were returned to the ship), and returns 20% AHP lost. The pilot reboots the ship, flies to a shop, and reboot/repair at the shop paying for the last 30% AHP to be repaired.
This same ship then encounters a Star.
The ship loses 1000 blocks, 80% of its AHP, and 20% of its System HP to the star. C'mon, it was a supergiant blue star, those things are killers (HEATSHIELDS WHEN). The ship uses its repair Astrotech thing, but this time only 300 blocks are regenerated, their System HP is refunded back (+5% lets say again), and, regenerates 20% armour back for minimal cost.
This leaves the ship on 40% AHP, -700 blocks, and 85% System HP that the user must then repair manually or re-spawn the ship to fix... or something.

Just would be nice to have the option for a "Micro-repair" out in the field for free, or shipyards to have a "Minor Repair" for free (For those star-encounters)

 

[Nickizzy]

What I'd like to see from Astrotechs is that they repair a "Minimal" amount of block damage on an entity "For free".

IE, A ship takes 50% AHP and 5% system HP and loses 300 blocks from it. Hitting the ship with an astrotech will regenerate a small amount of blocks only when the ship hasnt recently been struck, nor recently repaired without a reboot in between, or it has been repaired recently (EG, Can only be used once if ship has lost HP, and wasnt enough to reach 100% integrity - this further damage needs a deconstruct/shipyard to solve).

Therefore, the ship recoups its 300 blocks (Maybe consuming composite scrap, etc), regenerates the 5% lost system HP (the blocks were returned to the ship), and returns 20% AHP lost. The pilot reboots the ship, flies to a shop, and reboot/repair at the shop paying for the last 30% AHP to be repaired.
This same ship then encounters a Star.
The ship loses 1000 blocks, 80% of its AHP, and 20% of its System HP to the star. C'mon, it was a supergiant blue star, those things are killers (HEATSHIELDS WHEN). The ship uses its repair Astrotech thing, but this time only 300 blocks are regenerated, their System HP is refunded back (+5% lets say again), and, regenerates 20% armour back for minimal cost.
This leaves the ship on 40% AHP, -700 blocks, and 85% System HP that the user must then repair manually or re-spawn the ship to fix... or something.

Just would be nice to have the option for a "Micro-repair" out in the field for free, or shipyards to have a "Minor Repair" for free (For those star-encounters)

But this gives you free blocks, transfiguring composite into blocks with capsules and mesh. And this turns it into more of a consumeable that you activate and then need to re-arm.

On the flip side, I could see an argument to use Astrotechs to place blocks with a special mode. The damaged ship would have to enter "Repair from Blueprint" mode. Doing so would make any missing blocks into Design-type virtual blocks, but it would disable the ship's shield and power systems while Repair mode was active. In this state, Astrotechs could replace missing blocks quickly from their own slaved cargo (or potentially cargo on the target ship). As with the OP, replacing blocks not hit by the astrotech beams (even assuming some form of beam pass-through capability) would be completed once the ship's Structure and Armor would be restored to 100%

First clarify; so astrotech would refill all of armor and health pools of the ship with missing blocks included. Then all the missing blocks are replaced.
Dis correct?

Now, what if instead of a lockndock repair mode, it could be repaired at any time, but the blocks would be minimum health. Cause any time you just lost blocks your shields are down. As they repair the ship they replace blocks st 1 HP and no AHP. Once they replace every block they go back over and repair each block's HP. Once that was done the AHP was repaired at a slower rate in the same function.

 

[Napther]

But this gives you free blocks, transfiguring composite into blocks with capsules and mesh. And this turns it into more of a consumeable that you activate and then need to re-arm.

could you extrapolate a little? The cost can be variable, like consuming only 10% of the resources for this repair than to replace entirely, therefore capsules are consumed and need to be carried to enact repairs (But not necessarily the actual blocks)

Also I missed something out in my prior post, how it regenerates SHP and such. Perhaps when the ship is made it has 100,000 SHP total, (this is equal to 1000 power caps) and only 5% of SHP total can be regenerated from a repair. 1000/100 is 10, x5 is 50 blocks of 100 SHP it will recoup

It will recoup more blocks if they are decorative 5SHP blocks, or armour - it kinda makes sense because you can easily fabricate decorations and patch the hull up, but repairing a "Complicated futuristic system" would be less effective. THis will also be a buff to ships that rely on heavy armour to protect their systems, rewarding them for keeping those safe.

I am unsure how to stop all exploits with this system, however.

 

[Kiithnaras]

First clarify; so astrotech would refill all of armor and health pools of the ship with missing blocks included. Then all the missing blocks are replaced.
Dis correct?

No, not quite. What I'm saying is that astrotech beams would when used on an entity, restore, based on the healing applied from the beam, SHP at a 1:1 ratio and AHP at a 1:4 ratio. Additionally, as the percentage of SHP increases, the percentage of existing damaged blocks would increase proportionately. So, if my astrotech does 100,000 healing to a ship over a minute with 1,000,000 SHP, existing damaged blocks would recover 10% of their block HP over that same minute. This might seem trivial or inconsequential at first glance, but it is essential, in fact, for repairing structures in situ without ready access to a shipyard. Both the block healing and the HP healing makes combat repair drones a viable option AND allows player-utilized astrotech ships to be useful in restoring a ship's functionality as well as affecting blocks unable to be hit by the astrotech beams (even if said beams could otherwise have an "explosive" or "punch-through" effect).

What I had suggested with the Repair from Blueprint mode, which would cripple a ship's systems while active, is more a concept that would not be possible to be used in combat and where a Shipyard of sufficient size is unavailable to construct or repair a ship.

A ship in Shutdown & Repair mode would have no power or shield regeneration. Missing blocks would appear as Shipyard-style Virtual blocks. While in this mode, the target ship's SHP and AHP would not change. Instead of healing the Astrotechs would essentially become construction beams, using blocks in a cargo slaved to the Astrotech beam computer in order to randomly place blocks; the more healing power the beams have, the faster the construction would take place. The pilot in the S&R-mode ship could see the progress and blocks required and coordinate that to the pilots of the technician ship(s). The pilot of the Shutdown ship could end that state at any time, persisting any blocks that have been placed. However, the ship's current HP will remain as it existed prior, while the new maximum HP (both armor and structure) will be updated to match the existing block totals. This could easily place a ship into Overheating. The pilot of the repaired ship then has two options - let himself be repaired above 50% and start again, or reboot, accepting the current state of the ship and all of its missing (if any) blocks. A ship that is currently Overheating cannot be Shutdown for repairs.

But that's not my primary suggestion for astrotechs, just a neat side idea since so many people seem to love the idea of Astrotechs replacing blocks : )

 

[Lecic]

Repairing SHP without actually replacing the blocks sounds like a confusing mechanic. No thanks. And I don't think Astrotech should replace blocks- that should be a shipyard function only.

I like the idea of astrotech repairing AHP though.

 

[apelsinsaft]

I think having astrotechs be able to refill one or both of the physical health bars would definitely create more purpose for the things, however in my opinion actually replacing the blocks should be a manual labor or shipyard function like OP and others have said.

It would be interesting to see ships designed exclusively to sit in the middle of the friendly fleet, topping up the ships that fall back after taking armor damage and being able to both recharge the shield and repair whatever armor damage was sustained. It would definitely make that playstyle more viable, especially if we ever get around to having secondary and effect linking on support modules.

Now, there are a couple questions

• At what rate can we expect astrotechs to repair compared to weapon modules - do they affect more HP/s than weapons of similar size or less?
• How will the repair rate be in comparison to shield supply modules? Should they be tweaked somehow to compensate?
• What would the energy consumption look like, now that the Astrotech has a proper combat situation use? Would astrotechs maybe require to be linked to a cargo in order to consume alloy/crystal, but be very powerful to compensate?

 

[Nickizzy]

Repairing SHP without actually replacing the blocks sounds like a confusing mechanic. No thanks. And I don't think Astrotech should replace blocks- that should be a shipyard function only.

I like the idea of astrotech repairing AHP though.

What if it was really slow? Or had serious risks, like rebuilding hundreds of blocks at 1 HP?

How would you build stations then? Just pocket-BP them like we do now?

 

[Lecic]

What if it was really slow? Or had serious risks, like rebuilding hundreds of blocks at 1 HP?

How would you build stations then? Just pocket-BP them like we do now?

Logi-spam is the absolute most annoying thing in games. EVE, Dreadnought, Fractured Space, etc, it's all cancerous. It's a terrible idea to make it possible for ships to make a circle jerk of infinite healing. I never want logi-spam in this game.

As for stations, I would prefer if spawning a new station required a "station constructor" module which would be fed a design of a station and then build said station around it (using the constructor as the center block) as you fed it materials to do so.

 

[Nickizzy]

Logi-spam is the absolute most annoying thing in games. EVE, Dreadnought, Fractured Space, etc, it's all cancerous. It's a terrible idea to make it possible for ships to make a circle jerk of infinite healing. I never want logi-spam in this game.

Two points.
Astrotech could be slow and expensive, so you need specialized ships.
It still costs blocks, and any ship that's in a healing circle that needs healing is going to have it's shields down, and probably taking active fire. In EVE, Dread, and Fract, it doesn't cost money to repair. If repairing a titain 50% costed 25% of it's cost, you wouldn't have healing circles.