An idea for a kind-of war-server

[jorgekorke]

I've been thinking about how hard is to have objectively fun in SM ever since some changes long time ago.

The fear of taking risks, due to how long it takes to make up the structure of a faction. And then, a direct consequence to gigantism, which makes the game impossible to play to most of the people out there... So...

Why don't we make a server which, instead of being constant, it hosts "matches" of a faction vs. faction games, like... an RTS game? Let me try to explain better with my crappy English...

This idea is originally made by Comr4de , I've heard him saying about it a year ago on TS, but I never saw anybody bringing it back, so I suppose the people on the lobby forgot because almost everyone was drunk IIRC.​

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Overall Concept:
The whole idea here is to make a server which has only two factions (sides) set, and have the players enter and pick one of the sides. Once they pick a side, they are going to be sent to the base of the faction he/she has selected.

They will gather resources and deploy the given blueprints (could be defensive turrets for the base, fighters, corvettes or any other kind of ship) of the faction which was set in the match, following each tech tree.

With these tools, the two sides will fight on a closed star system (although big) and a winner should arise. There "matches" should take less than 4 hours, so people will be more willing to take risks, since it's only a match and not a definitive resolution.



Factions:
The factions of the Starmade community could subscribe their assets to this server and become virtual factions of the server, which can be picked up on a match, with their tech-trees and blueprints to be used by the players.

Think of a side of a RTS, where a match can be, say, NFD vs. Trident; so the blueprints and the station one side has is NFD's, and the opposition is Trident's. Vagyr vs. NFD, etc.

Not only the style of the ships can be different, but also the style of the gameplay as a whole. Imagine a faction which has cheap, but weak ships against another faction which has the opposite.

Spoiler: Here's an example from my mind

Vagyr:
- Strong, but expensive and slow warships.
- Strong on late-game, weak in early-game.
- The characteristics of this faction encourages steamrolling and powerhouse behavior.

NFD:
- All-around faction which medium costs and efficiency.
- Has a economic bonus of starting with one extra harvesting ship.
- The characteristics of this faction encourages a balanced behavior.

RATO:
- Cheap and fast, but fragile and weak vessels.
- Strong on early-game, weak in late-game.
- The characteristics of this faction encourages rushing and guerrilla-ish behavior.

Thryn:
- Very specific min-maxing ships, with a lot of logic usage, requiring the player to be experienced to use it.
(...)
Etc...Etc...

Each faction would have it's own tech-tree, and obviously, each faction could have it's own style of base to be deployed on the beginning of the match.


Gameplay:
The match starts with each base placed on each extreme of the solar system, with a number of miner ships available for the players to pick up and start gathering resources. The base will have no turrets, but the placements are there, so the players do gather the resources, create the turret and place it.

The economy is supposed to be fast, so it shouldn't take long to make up a fleet for attacking/defending. To avoid too much head-cracking with minerals and crafting, the miner ships should mine the stuff, sell it to the big shop each one of the two stations has, and buy the blocks to get the shipyard working.

This is were strategies comes in play, a team could think about junking up resources to deploy a big blueprint, while the other creates a small squad to quickly rush and attack the undefended enemy base.

To avoid gigantism and performance problems, a reasonable block limit should be placed on the factions, to avoid game breaking uber titans getting in play.

When one team destroys the other, the match is over and resets, re-drawing the factions to be used and everything comes back at one.

So, what do you guys think about it? I would definitely do it if I had the coin for a server, but... that's not the case.....

I'll probably be editing this thread in order to fix bad English or brainfart mistakes. Or adding cool images to reinforce my points.​

 

[StormWing0]

I think the maker of ARES Mod tried something similar but he just went strait to the "Buy with Credits" & "Credit Generation" options. If someone can figure out that but with item and resource generation it'd be perfect.

 

[Az14el]

That example just made me think of an SMD Factions themed RTS.
NFD Would start with cloaked warheads, not an extra miner :^)

 

[jorgekorke]

I think the maker of ARES Mod tried something similar but he just went strait to the "Buy with Credits" & "Credit Generation" options. If someone can figure out that but with item and resource generation it'd be perfect.

Buy-with-credits seems easier, but I think it makes impossible to use the shipyards though :/

Not sure what this mod was about, but well, the factions of SMD would enjoy the two things: building their line-up, looking them ACTUALLY doing something, and finally getting into some action.

This idea is so stuck on me, I might even consider doing a double-time on my job to make the money to pay a server.

 

[Madman198237]

So, a Starmade MOBA/RTS combo? Because more than one player is controlling it.

I'd say give every player whatever ship they want, the rest are spawned with the intention of throwing them into fleets and using them, or something like that. It's too late in my time zone for me to think about the issues and logistics.

 

[Lecic]

That example just made me think of an SMD Factions themed RTS.
NFD Would start with cloaked warheads, not an extra miner :^)

I think someone was planning on modding... Homeworld? a while back with Starmade factions using the model exporter for the models, but I don't think anything ever came of it.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

This reminds me of games like Tribes, Battlefield etc where you have two factions with tech on each side. Defence tech in the form of bases already equipped with turrets etc. Attack tech in for form of limited numbers of vehicles that can be spawned at once, but if destroyed can be spawned again after a timeout.

The game is pretty much a death match unless you want a prize to capture as in capture the flag scenarios.

You could build a war server with exactly the same tech available to both teams, so they are evenly matched that way. The difference would be strategy, skill and experience. Naturally, with collaborative play you would need really good team work. Otherwise it can all fall apart.

With Starmade, we can pretty much imitate these other games quite well. With the twist of additional factions or wild card factions like pirates thrown in, as you do with games like Command & Conquer, etc.

I'd love to play on such a server.

 

[Jeryia]

Howdy,
Yeah this sounds very similar to the Ares Mod (Ares mod).
General concept was:
* 2 factions at war which you are forced to join one
* Each faction got a base to defend
* Credits would be given to each faction, and divided amongst the players; giving a small amount every few seconds.
* Some control points that could be captured to increase the amount of credits you received.
* Victory is achieved by destroying you're enemy's base.
* Once a game is completed, everything is reset.

The main issue I ran into was although many would join, very few would join at the same time, causing someone to stop in for 5 minutes (or less) see no one else then leave. Trying to set a specific time didn't seem to work as no one followed it.
Secondarily, I haven't had a lot of free time lately, so I'm not certain when I'll be able to be around to manage such a server.

So right now I'm working on trying to boost the survival features on my server, then try to get Ares to play nice running on the same server as survival players. Giving them something to do, and perhaps 'queue' to join the Ares battleground. Toward that end, I have been considering moving more toward a resource model like you've suggested, though it's more like players get resources instead of credits every few seconds.

I believe that both ideas are sound, and really is what starmade needs. There's just some work that needs to occur to make it happen.

 

[Nickizzy]

I'm in. I wonder if it would be good to disable build mode and blueprints, so you only start with what you shipyard has in designs. otherwise factions would be meaningless.

 

[Lukwan]

I would very happy to see a variety of structured match options in the vanilla SM. I think having more ways to play in MP will only increase the accessibility of SM to a wider audience.

On the one hand new players may want to join a Match-Server to try the game out and will be happy to use other people`s designs. On the other hand experienced players will want a Duel-Server to test out a new build or resolve a dispute so allowing BPs is required. The most interesting version of a match server would be for a formal, evenly matched battle between factions from different servers. Each team would be given a mass or resource limit but would bring their own fleets. This would provide a platform to have one-off challenges or ranked tournaments.

 

[Jake_Lancia]

I can get behind this.

As an avid RTS player myself, I've always enjoyed this type of game anyway, strategy is really one of the only game types I'm genuinely good at :P

Though if I can make a suggestion on the gameplay side of this; have 'outpost' blueprints, smaller stations that each faction can spawn anywhere outside the main base, that generate extra resources/credits or can act as gun platforms, or maybe forward shipyards, but can be destroyed or captured by the opposing faction. That way, the established faction can have a forward base close to the enemy's base, or the losing faction could have a hidden base covertly building ships ready for a comeback strike or something. It would make things a little more fun instead of just 'kill enemy home base'.

 

[Nickizzy]

I can get behind this.

As an avid RTS player myself, I've always enjoyed this type of game anyway, strategy is really one of the only game types I'm genuinely good at :p

Though if I can make a suggestion on the gameplay side of this; have 'outpost' blueprints, smaller stations that each faction can spawn anywhere outside the main base, that generate extra resources/credits or can act as gun platforms, or maybe forward shipyards, but can be destroyed or captured by the opposing faction. That way, the established faction can have a forward base close to the enemy's base, or the losing faction could have a hidden base covertly building ships ready for a comeback strike or something. It would make things a little more fun instead of just 'kill enemy home base'.

Ah. A way to spawn stations. Yes. High resource cost though, even if they are weaker than they should be(so generators can be expensive but weak, like placing a billion cannon modules unconnected to anything somewhere).

I would prefer that there was a variety of stations, like:
Gun platform-a basic station withs bunch of weak(<300 dps) turrets.
Refinery platform-a intermediate station that allows in the field refinement.
Mining platform: A special station only avalible in certain areas(resource points), slowly generates ores over time.
Missile platform-a basic platform with weak(just beam computer, <2000 damage) lock-on missile turrets.
Forward base-a special platform with little defensive capability(PD turrets and weak shields), including a single undeathinator on the inside. Includes a docking port(USD).
Shipyard- an advanced station with a small and medium shipyard, capable of making smaller ships. Includes a dozen docking ports.
Heavy Gun platform- an advanced station with massive weapons(2000 dps+) and strong shields(100k/5k). A wall blocker. Includes several docking ports.
Heavy Missile platform-a high tech station with long range alpha strike capability(1-1 missile beam, 20k damage+). Medium shields(50k/2.5k).
There a few station ideas to set up as outposts. Most of them are small and more like the platforms in homeworld.

 

[jorgekorke]

Since the chances of success seem thin, I'll use this thread to dump the ideas from my mind before I get lazy with real life problems and forget it all

So, developing the idea... Since Ares seems so similar, perhaps it could be modified further to adapt those adittional touches that it had come in my mind? The only negative point is, I wanted to have the game's shipyards to be used instead of insta-buying a blueprint with the credits out of nowhere.

Perhaps, if the game had a customized shop function, filled-up blueprints could had been placed into a shop, in order to be bought with credits, and then, finally to be placed inside the base's shipyards for the vessel to be produced and deployed in the field.

Another conflicting idea would be allowing the players to mine themselves, in order to boost the team's economy. I wonder if it is possible to add some kind of script that allowed the players to dump the mined minerals into the station, and their overall value is converted into credits, rewarding all teammates. That would allow some adittional tactics, like having a team investing in defenses and more miners, to boost the economy in order to bring a big gun early in the match.

As for Jake_Lancia 's idea, it would be perfect, but perhaps, only a certain member of the team could spawn such big structures. Maybe some kind of leader, to be drawed automatically by the game? Again, I'm not sure if the game allows such limitations, including to not allow players to use build mode in order to make them use the blueprints.

To avoid boredom, several game modes can be placed. A free-faction mode could be placed, so in this special occasion, the players may use their own blueprints. Also, if there are too few players, how about a "lobby waiting" mode with small maps of astronaut-fighting? People seemed to enjoy it on the events at NFD server back in time, IIRC.




I really wish I had the patience to figure it out by being good at coding/programming...

 

[Nickizzy]

To avoid boredom, several game modes can be placed. A free-faction mode could be placed, so in this special occasion, the players may use their own blueprints. Also, if there are too few players, how about a "lobby waiting" mode with small maps of astronaut-fighting? People seemed to enjoy it on the events at NFD server back in time, IIRC.

I actually would sorta like a server JUST with this. I have never done astronaut fighting. Ever. Lets make another thread with a astronaut pvp server!

 

[Fireshock]

Bigest problem with this is gathering enough players to regulary fill up matches. Idk how to fix that, but I know about gameplay:

A script to insta sell all items in inventory needs to be made, or even better to sell all items from certain storage on a flown ship.
I recomend having each player start with a certain number of credits. Then they can use those credits to buy whatever ship of their faction they want, from the shop at their main base. Allow players to give their credits to another allied player so if they want they can all together buy 1 bigger ship at the start or they can all buy miners and later join their credits to get a titan(small enough not to lag). If someone wants they can imidiately spawn a stealth ship or an corvette and go solo rush other team. This allows everyone in team to play a role they want and enables a whole faction to redistribute it's starting credits in to any combination of it's ships they want. Each player has full control over credits they have aquired by selling their mined minerals. Teamplay is fully possible, but not enforced.

When a player dies they should imidiately respawn at their homebase, but lose all items and credits in their inventory. That way main punishment for death is giving away your ship to the enemy side and needing a new ship to get back in to play. So the winning side would be punished more because their ship is left deeper behind the enemy lines and they have longer way to travel back to the frontline. There would be NO homebase invurnerability, the match is won when the enemy homebase overheats.

Imo each faction should include atleast 1 turret design, 1 AMS turret, 1 station design, 2 miner designs, 1 fast agile warship, 1 slow strong warship, 1 stealth ship, 1 boarding oriented ship and 1 drone carrier. Some ships can be combinations of more of those and all those should be spread over all ship sizes. We can skip few of those and focus more on others to give each faction their style, but I recomend not to, so each player could choose to fight how he wants, unless...

This would be something that can be turned off: We could allow each player to bring 1 blueprint of their own to the match, which they can spawn ONLY ONCE. This can technicaly be achieved by placing empty blueprint in to the players inventory at the start of the match and making the homebase shop have infinite resources. So player can insta buy all blocks for he's blueprint, after he has aquired all the needed credits.

 

[kingreol]

reminds me of the pace wulfram 2 had a long time ago... the ability to claim a sector(not a system) with a small blueprint spawn. plus multiple stations in the same sector. also prefilled blueprints. because micromanaging that stuff can be very time consuming in of itself.

 

[jorgekorke]

Bigest problem with this is gathering enough players to regulary fill up matches.

Hmmm true. Thinking about it, perhaps it would be ideal if this hypothetical server only operated at weekends? Exclusivity of days makes it special, and everythig that is "rare" is valued among people. It's a possibility...

A script to insta sell all items in inventory needs to be made, or even better to sell all items from certain storage on a flown ship.
I recomend having each player start with a certain number of credits. Then they can use those credits to buy whatever ship of their faction they want, from the shop at their main base. Allow players to give their credits to another allied player so if they want they can all together buy 1 bigger ship at the start or they can all buy miners and later join their credits to get a titan(small enough not to lag). If someone wants they can imidiately spawn a stealth ship or an corvette and go solo rush other team. This allows everyone in team to play a role they want and enables a whole faction to redistribute it's starting credits in to any combination of it's ships they want. Each player has full control over credits they have aquired by selling their mined minerals. Teamplay is fully possible, but not enforced.

Nice. I belive the part of allowing credit transfer is easy, because several servers already have those commands.

Imo each faction should include atleast 1 turret design, 1 AMS turret, 1 station design, 2 miner designs, 1 fast agile warship, 1 slow strong warship, 1 stealth ship, 1 boarding oriented ship and 1 drone carrier. Some ships can be combinations of more of those and all those should be spread over all ship sizes. We can skip few of those and focus more on others to give each faction their style, but I recomend not to, so each player could choose to fight how he wants, unless...

The issue would be balancing the factions, but I believe all of the big factions from the community do have a decent lineup with many possibilities. Perhaps we could ask the shells of the ships, so there is no technological theft since there was some drama in the past because of it. That would make the balancing easier as well...

 

[Jojomo]

Isn't this very similar to what the Blood and Steel tournament does?

It also reminds me of how Falcon 3 (very old now, but still unsurpassed in terms of flight sim accurracy) handled this situation: the AI would conduct and fight an entire war, and the players(s) could jump into any aircraft on any mission and control it instead of the AI.

People would set up a server and say "Ok, the Korean war is being fought here for the next two weeks, players X, Y and Z are on the north team, players A, B, and C are on the south team.
And then they started it and played.
Often the players on one side would colaberate and join the same missions, to improve the chance of success.

It was an excellent system. Maybe someone will make a mod to script a whole war for us! :D

 

[jorgekorke]

Isn't this very similar to what the Blood and Steel tournament does?

Not quite. B&S is composed of death matches which teams brings their own ships. There are no bases no resource gathering. Also, if you die there, it's game over.