Read by Council Adv Buildmode Enhancements

[XyNox]

Although the "similar threads" shown upon creating did not yield any results, I can imagine this got suggested before already. Forgive me if that turns out to be the case but I simply feel this is of utmost importance.

Advanced Buildmode should let you:

1. Select and move parts of your structure

There is nothing more frustrating than finishing a room in your ship just to realize that the corridor connecting the 2 rooms is 1 block too short or too long. You are pretty much required to plan for every single block of your entire build before even laying down the first block if you want something that looks exactly like you envision it. I have all these awesome ideas floating in my head but often end up staring at my screen for 20 minutes because I am trying to plan for everything, knowing I dont get a second chance to make big modifications when I am finished.

The copy -> delete -> paste method is equally cumbersome and not a real solution.

2. Pick blocks

Minecraft has this, Robocraft has this and it is incredibly usefull. I feel like when I build sloped objects, 50% of my time is just selecting and rotating blocks. An inputmodifyer-hotkey that picks the blocktype+rotation of the block you are looking at on mouseclick would cut this time short a tenfold and make shipbuilding a lot more enjoyable.

3. Block Rotation

I am suspecting there are some shortkeys I dont know about but rotating blocks in starmade is horrible. Excuse me for the blunt phrasing but mousescrolling through 12 block orientations everyime you want to place something is such a pain. Again, I suggest implementing an inputmodifyer-hotkey that orients the to be placed block relative to your mouseview. I.E. as long as you hold down this button, aiming at the face of a block would always place a wedge with one of its sides attached to the block your are pointing at. That would still give 4 possible orientations to scroll through but it would be vastly easier since you already know what those 4 orientations will be.

Again, Minecraft and Robocraft already have this and it works nicely. The current system we have where blockplacement is NOT view sensitive is sometimes equally useful of course but that doesnt mean we should not have both of the mechanics at our disposal.


I realize that you can make use of the current systems to create awesome ships as there are plenty around so please refrain from pointing that out. Implementing these features would just make it so much user-friendly.

 

[jontyfreack]

1. seems like a good idea...but honestly I prefer copy paste because if you want two of those rooms you can, and if they are slightly out of place it isn't anywhere as tedious as having to rebuild it in a different location.

2. I see what you mean, and it could be useful. I myself have had occasions when I forgot where to find a certain block in the inventory, but the actual block I needed was already placed in front of me. but I wanted to find it again and I couldn't. so I can see how that could be a good idea. however block orientation saves with things like wedges, corners, heptas, and tetras.

3. ha no. we already have a simple system that was easy to implement, that keeps the same rotation because it is relative to the orientation of the ship you are building. and has way more detail options to play with, and the amount of times I got enraged by how the orientation works in minecraft and robocraft....lets just say I don't play those games anymore. and the method you suggested would not work with mass place blocks in this game, and would actually slow down building.
have you ever seen something in minecraft built by one person that was around the size of a UNSC frigate that was built in less than a week by a single person with full detailing.

and I might suggest you look at the work of dalmont and compare it to skylord_lukes work. you will then know why 3 is a bad idea

 

[XyNox]

You were in a bit of a hurry when reading my post, werent you ?

1. seems like a good idea...but honestly I prefer copy paste because if you want two of those rooms you can, and if they are slightly out of place it isn't anywhere as tedious as having to rebuild it in a different location.

I am talking about the ability to select portions of your structure by defining x y z volumes and then instead of clicking copy, deleting the specifyed volume and then pasting it in again e.g. one block to the side, you would just be able to move the selected volume right away with arrow keys/WASD/we by 1 or 5 or 30 or we amount of bocks. The outcome would be the same as with the copy paste function ( which would obviously stay in the game and not be replaced ), just the amount of player input would be decreased.

3. ha no. we already have a simple system that was easy to implement, that keeps the same rotation because it is relative to the orientation of the ship you are building. and has way more detail options to play with, and the amount of times I got enraged by how the orientation works in minecraft and robocraft....lets just say I don't play those games anymore. and the method you suggested would not work with mass place blocks in this game, and would actually slow down building.
have you ever seen something in minecraft built by one person that was around the size of a UNSC frigate that was built in less than a week by a single person with full detailing.

3. Block Rotation

I am suspecting there are some shortkeys I dont know about but rotating blocks in starmade is horrible. Excuse me for the blunt phrasing but mousescrolling through 12 block orientations everyime you want to place something is such a pain. Again, I suggest implementing an inputmodifyer-hotkey that orients the to be placed block relative to your mouseview. I.E. as long as you hold down this button, aiming at the face of a block would always place a wedge with one of its sides attached to the block your are pointing at. That would still give 4 possible orientations to scroll through but it would be vastly easier since you already know what those 4 orientations will be.

Again, Minecraft and Robocraft already have this and it works nicely. The current system we have where blockplacement is NOT view sensitive is sometimes equally useful of course but that doesnt mean we should not have both of the mechanics at our disposal.


I realize that you can make use of the current systems to create awesome ships as there are plenty around so please refrain from pointing that out. Implementing these features would just make it so much user-friendly.

and I might suggest you look at the work of dalmont and compare it to skylord_lukes work. you will then know why 3 is a bad idea

I realize that you can make use of the current systems to create awesome ships as there are plenty around so please refrain from pointing that out. Implementing these features would just make it so much user-friendly.

I took the liberty of colour coding the parts that answer your concerns for better reading comprehension. In case it was not obvious from the beginning, those features would be OPTIONAL of course and would not replace the existing ones. Nobody would be forced to use those.

Lastly, I want to respectfully ask people to read more carefully before anwering to a topic. Without trying to demean or insult anyone, this is something I see quite often in this forum. People seem to just skim over a post halfheartedly, missing about half the content just so they can rush in and talk about their own ideas. I am not sure if the community is just young and impatient but please consider my plea

 

[jontyfreack]

you were a bit in a hurry when you were trying to come to a point of understanding with my post weren't you?

we already have a feature that does exactly as you would wish, only with one more step. that is the deleting of what you want to move so you can move it someplace else without mucking it up. copy delete paste is already simple enough and an extra method is not required to do one specific thing when there is already something that can do what you wish and more, however with more effort for the best results. (im guessing you missed the starmade stream when criss realised a whole section of a station was one block to high, so he copied and pasted it one bock lower, the whole process took about 10 minutes because of the size of he object caused lots of lag when pasting back in.) and yes I have read what you said, so before you go complaining that I have not read it, I have, and I wish to point out that adding another method of doing the same thing, despite fewer steps, is not required. and that by using already implemented methods and with some THINKING we can already do just as you would wish, however not how you would wish it

and I did read your whole statement (after getting confused as to why you would want such a method of block orientation that limits creativity in this game) so in order to get my point out to something OTHER people can understand as well in case they wish to read over this thread. is that it should take a certain level of skill to make something look good, and your method you suggest would be too limiting, and would not be required to implement as we already have a superior orientation method, that saves the orientation of wedges, corners, tetras, and heptas between hull types.

the reason I suggested those is that with the current method there is so much more variety in build styles that can be possible, whereas the minecraft method limits creativity. and yes I know you said it should be an option. but it isn't a very good option is it. its a bit like asking someone if they want all the money in the world in an instant, or being forced into slavery until the end of their life but they get money during it in small amounts that you cant use.


and please before trying to answer my point with one you already made, please ready my whole point and actually read it, inspect it, look for the details that come through. then you will realise that I had addressed your point, however I had to conflict against your point to do so

the method you suggest is actually too complicated as both of the games to use as examples are not designed to have things like corners or pentas or heptas or even wedges.


and maybe to end all of this without having to argue (despite it being fun being able to see other peoples points on a subject)...

it wont work with the blocks we have in this game


the other 2. eh they could be improved upon but I can see where they would be useful









if things in my post don't seem to flow, its because I keep going back to your original post to re-read it, and I sometimes get confused as to what possible benefit 3 could possibly have...I don't see it being useful at all, or even used by anyone who makes ships with wedges or corners.
[DOUBLEPOST=1456665177,1456665108][/DOUBLEPOST]oh and thank you for colour coding, I think more people should do that, because for other people it might help for them to see a point that they missed.

this thread is turning into a bit more of a post on how to answer to a thread isn't it?

 

[XyNox]

Oh my, that escalated quickly :D

I guess we both made our points. I still dont see any problems with implementing optional, helpful features for those who want to use them. I sure as hell also do not agree that "it should take a certain level of skill to make something look good" when the mentioned "skill" in this context is the mere devotion to use unnecessarily cumbersome building tools, where it rather should be the creative capabilities of the user which makes a "skilled" builder. Whoever is capable of using the current systems without any discomfort whatsoever, props to them, I tip my hat to you. All I know is I encountered countless occasions where I was wishing for the aforementioned mechanics and I can very well imagine I am not the only one.

In order not to turn this into a dialogue though, maybe let us settle our disagreement for now and let other people give a chance to voice their opinion.

 

[NTIMESc]

1. I would like to select an area, then nudge the selected area with the movement keys (just like moving on the galaxy map).
2. I would really like a block picker!
3. I would like a modifier key that, when held, orients the square face of a wedge, hepta or corner onto the face where I'm pointing.

 

[jontyfreack]

i think from this we can say everyone wants the block picker.





now I shall cookie dreadnought my way out

 

[XyNox]

I want to add to my suggestion that point 1. selecting and moving parts could be implemented my moving blocks defined by setting a plane, much like symmetry planes are done now.

The first method would be the already mentioned x y z volume select method that is currently used for building and copying parts.

The second method would be putting a xy / zy / zx plane between 2 blocks ( the same as deactivated oddsym works right now ) which then moves all the blocks infront/behind this plane into a certain direction. This would circumvent the problem where a structure is so big that setting a x y z volume is not big enough ( since it is server dependant anyway ) and moving parts would take many iterations in order to tediously move everything.

I see a "read by council" tag instead of a "recognized" or even "planned". Please people, is this nothing you wish to be in the game ? I surely cannot be the only one wanting this in the game to make our lives easier.

 

[jontyfreack]

its the added difficulty of implementing and coding it that will be the main problem here.

It was difficult enough getting copy paste to work

 

[Dire Venom]

WANT :3

 

[XyNox]

its the added difficulty of implementing and coding it that will be the main problem here.

It was difficult enough getting copy paste to work

The code is already in the game. Defining and recognizing xyz coordinates and their corresponding blocks is in the game. Setting planes, unsurprisingly as a result since it is the same thing in essence, is in the game.

A block coordinate translation is a task so easy you could do it by hand with a notepad file without the need of any complex formulars. That would require you to do it externally though and not from within the game. I am sure devs are a bit more qualified than you are fit to admit.

 

[Asypha]

1. It would be nice if the copy and paste outline could be shifted around with arrow keys or something to allow for more robust area selection. The number of times I need to build a scaffold around my target to get a good copy.....

2. Yes, speaking of which, I suggested this a while back ... Read by Council - In Creative Mode; middle click places target block in current inventory slot. could use a few more likes for attention...

3. I did not read the wall of text above, but there was a mention of a hotkey toggle to allow for relative rotation. I could get behind that as an added feature. However, I find there are a lot fewer issues with using the discrete rotation in Starmade vs the relative rotation in something like Minecraft. The number of stairs I have destroyed in that game trying to get just the right position....

 

[Lukwan]

1. I would like to select an area, then nudge the selected area with the movement keys (just like moving on the galaxy map).
2. I would really like a block picker!
3. I would like a modifier key that, when held, orients the square face of a wedge, hepta or corner onto the face where I'm pointing.

(Point 1 is not such a big deal since we can pretty much do this already as Jonty pointed out.)

Points 2 & 3 are great ideas. They would save me time, fatigue, tedium & countless key-strokes and clicks. Building in MC I used to stack a color-palette of twenty blocks or so that I could 'Pick-Block' from to help me build. This allows me to bypass the limited toolbar and also is useful from an artist's perspective. I browse the inventory for inspiration when building.

Mostly I like it when Ideas are clear, concise and without too much editorializing.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

I feel like chucking my 2 cents into this topic.

Point 2, as stated fairly often, is the most usefull, to the point I'm stunned it isn't allready in the game.

Point 1, is a TIMESAVER, and I'm nearly allways in favor of timesavers. So long as it gets broken down into sub-steps like they seem to be planning for the existing copy-paste system, it should allow much faster correcting of said off-by-one errors.

I'm sick of having to spend time (often upwards of 5 minutes, as I'm not all that good at eyeballing a measurement, so I screw-up the scaffold too.) building a one-use scaffold to correct an off-by-one error.


Point 3, is a user-interface issue, and the sheer stunning variety of UI in other games should be a fair indicator of just how differently some people think an interface should/must be.
I've forgotten what game it was, but I remember that it had two massively different interfaces available for it by default, and the playerbase was fairly evenly split on which interface was "better". I bring this up because both interfaces sucked hard, to the point that dozens of mods were "yet another different interface"

Point 3 would likely be "mostly" solved by a proper in-game tutorial about how it works and is intended to be used.
a whole fecking lot of things would be solved by "proper" in-game tutorials.