Add More Flight Mode Tool Slots

[Proxima_Centauri]

Pretty self explanatory really
People shouldn't be forced to limit the capability of their ships because the toolbar only has ten slots...

It's not at all convenient to switch what is in your toolbar while in the middle of combat, either.

Why not just have the toolbar be expandable (like the rest of the new HUD/GUI) for up to 20 or 30 slots?

 

[kiddan]

Maybe you could have 20 slots: 1 - 10 would be the 1 - 0 keys and 11 - 20 would be number pad 1 - 0. And maybe a swap key set key (1 - 10 into 11 - 20 and vice-versa) for those without number pads.

 

[CyberTao]

Numpad is actually used for other things last I checked.

The problem with expanding the number of hotbar slots is that it allows you to cram more weapons down there. Why is that bad? Remember that each group on a weapons computer increases the power cost by 10%, makes effects far more appealing for block breaking. Why does this matter? Because more slots means more computers, and less groups per computer.

Kind of a lame reasoning I have I know, but why try to limit weapon outputs then give the option for more of them? What reasons can you think of that would justify more slots other than to try and circumvent the powernerf?

 

[kiddan]

Numpad is actually used for other things last I checked.

The problem with expanding the number of hotbar slots is that it allows you to cram more weapons down there. Why is that bad? Remember that each group on a weapons computer increases the power cost by 10%, makes effects far more appealing for block breaking. Why does this matter? Because more slots means more computers, and less groups per computer.

Kind of a lame reasoning I have I know, but why try to limit weapon outputs then give the option for more of them? What reasons can you think of that would justify more slots other than to try and circumvent the powernerf?

Yea, I think I see the 1,000s of helium balloons problem there. But then again people can't even fire multiple weapons at once so it doesn't affect it as much.

 

[CyberTao]

Yea, I think I see the 1,000s of helium balloons problem there. But then again people can't even fire multiple weapons at once so it doesn't affect it as much.

The difference in DPS between a fast firing weapon and one with a long reload is non-existent in most cases. Firing between the reloads if what I'm getting at.

 

[Krazykat]

CyberTao I don't see how that would be a problem? You would end up using around the same amount of energy, but faster.

Also having slots (maybe on the sides of the screen) so we can undock drones from there or add this in with the ability to use logic blocks from the toolbar to be able to control certain systems such as doors and lights without having to switch to build mode

 

[CyberTao]

I don't see how that would be a problem? You would end up using around the same amount of energy, but faster.

Depends on how you look at it.
If you have 2 weapons separate, they need 100k power for example. Putting them together on the same computer would increase that cost by 10%, making it 110K per weapon and 220k total to fire.
Splitting that weapon into 2 computers doesn't cause the extra 10% per weapon, so it would only cost 200k power to fire them both, but takes up another hotbar slot.

It's trivial on smaller ships, but would cause issues on Large ships with large missile arrays, cause the cost of extra groups is exponential (5 groups means +50% to all groups, totaling +250% total), meaning spitting missiles between computers could over half the power costs.

To use an example, my battleship has 80 planned lockon missile groups, that's +800% per group, or +64000% total power if they were all together.
2 Computers with 40 each would be +400% per group, or +16000% per computer. +32000% power increase total, half of using 1 computer. It makes a serious difference on larger ships with bigger weapon arrays.

Though, a separate panel for Logic blocks would be nice, saves the problem of more things to cram onto a hotbar.

 

[Krazykat]

I see what you mean. I think weapon scaling needs a balance check anyway and we could just reduce that number to like 5%, because it still requires you to re-acquire lock every time you switch and then you still have to cycle between them; it takes more actions and more time, allowing anti-missile systems to have a better chance at destroying them.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

Depends on how you look at it.
If you have 2 weapons separate, they need 100k power for example. Putting them together on the same computer would increase that cost by 10%, making it 110K per weapon and 220k total to fire.

That gimmick was recently removed
You can now have 1 1000-block cannon and 1000 1-block cannons and they'll use the same energy.

 

[CyberTao]

That gimmick was recently removed
You can now have 1 1000-block cannon and 1000 1-block cannons and they'll use the same energy.

"AdditionalPowerConsumptionPerUnitMult" is the power nerf. By default it is set to 0.1, which is still 10% (0 is off). I don't play with configs, so I'm pretty sure I'm correct in saying it's still there.

Edit;

I see what you mean. I think weapon scaling needs a balance check anyway and we could just reduce that number to like 5%, because it still requires you to re-acquire lock every time you switch and then you still have to cycle between them; it takes more actions and more time, allowing anti-missile systems to have a better chance at destroying them.

I missed this post. You actually don't lose the lock if you place them next to each other and use the scroll wheel, so setting them in a row, scrolling and clicking will fire all lock on style missiles without having to relock.

 

[BDLS]

Just do it like Space Engineers. Having more slots would definitely be nice for those multi-system ships.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

"AdditionalPowerConsumptionPerUnitMult" is the power nerf. By default it is set to 0.1, which is still 10% (0 is off).

I guess this can be added to the list of "outdated features" as this was only there to nerf checkard doom weapons with the old weapon system.

This is not a good reason to limit the slots to ten, either, as spreading out weapons offers hardly any if at all tangible benefit.

 

[CyberTao]

I guess this can be added to the list of "outdated features" as this was only there to nerf checkard doom weapons with the old weapon system.

This is not a good reason to limit the slots to ten, either, as spreading out weapons offers hardly any if at all tangible benefit.

The reason the nerf was kept was to promote the use of effects like punchthough and pierce over waffleboards, and as I said above, the saving of power can become massive when you get into large numbers of groups while also increasing the amount of blocks destroyed. But that is literally the only concern/comment I have.
Have to ask how you would use it though, assuming it's something like tap right ctrl to cycle the bars?

 

[Megacrafter127]

Why not 2 weapon hotbars, one for left-click and one for right-click?

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

The reason the nerf was kept was to promote the use of effects like punchthough and pierce over waffleboards

Eh, I think they forgot it was even there to be honest

 

[CyberTao]

Eh, I think they forgot it was even there to be honest

Calbiri was and still is the guy in charge of configs and balance, and recently helped to explain the power nerf in chat. It's there, but can easily be edited out by anyone in case it's not wanted on a server.

 

[Gamel]

my keyboard dun have a numpad
I suggest having two rows
the 2nd one will be select with shift+number

 

[Megacrafter127]

the 2nd one will be select with shift+number

Or both are selected, but one only reacts to LMB and the other only to RMB.
We'd have an easy option, if it'd also allow to assign one weapon to both of those bars.

 

[ltmauve]

We could let effects and logic be double-stacked, one LMB one RMB. But still, a second bar would be good too.

 

[Gamel]

Or both are selected, but one only reacts to LMB and the other only to RMB.
We'd have an easy option, if it'd also allow to assign one weapon to both of those bars.

But RMB and LMB are taken
have you tried using RMB and LMB for ship weapon? there is a different