A way to REDUCE the amount of blocks placed

[Lockerd]

I've been looking into this for a long time now, and I've seen other games do something similar.

There are a few things which would be effective in doing this, but giant cubes comprised with numerous blocks that perform a single function I.E. Power, Power Storage, Shields, Shield Recharge, etc.

all of them, do present a problem with performance, too many of them, and some people have framerate drops, memory issues, etc. too few, and there's nothing to hit.

yes we can configure their behaviors, but just making a single set of blocks more powerful still demands we place many of them, or else make essential blocks too expensive to produce for smaller impacts.

I know Thruster fuel is out of the question, and to be honest I don't want that either. However, reactor fuel, of some sort would be highly beneficial in creating power plants capable of being sustained.

and shield blocks would be immensely more functional, if instead of having to place every individual block, we "load" blocks with other shield modules, same with rechargers. they woudln't have infinite loading, which would still prompt more for larger vessels. and they could reduce the amount of blocks in the ships and stations to render.

Reactors would act in a similar manner, though I'd like to see something more complex in the future, that's just my personal preference...perhaps when mods are finally supported it could go further.

anyway, reactors, and power storage would be compressed as well, with the power storage modules being largely left the way they are.

however, I'd like to see some sort of fuel source for reactors, from a start of fission, then to fusion, and or other plasma formed fuel sources. eventually, I'd like to think some power sources could become infinite, like a discovered relic from an ancient derelict ship, from a long forgotten race.

but that's mostly a pipe dream, I'd settle for just plain old crystal based fuel from certain roids and planets to keep the reactors going.

at least it'd give targets to hit, and not some damn annoying to hit smattering of tubes.

I wouldn't think this kind of thing would function the same for thrusters, at leas for those the size is functional and speed is easily adjusted better than min/maxing shields, power, and armor etc.

and eventually, I'd like to see "backup" shield supplies.

 

[madman Captain]

Dude, people build large ships because they want to build large ships. If you put all this blocks together, you have no ways specialize the ships in serveral ways. And NO kind of fuel in any form.
If you want less laggy ships build smaller ones. My largest ship is 946 metres long and I have the basic shape for a ship with 1700 metres and no fuel ore block changes will change that.

 

[akimzav]

So, what you are proposing is to add blocks, that occupy more space than 1*1*1 m^3 (for example, 2*2*2, 3*3*3 and so on), and that have the same properties (and cost) as the amount of 1*1*1 blocks equal in volume to that larger block (so one 'new' block of power reactors is absolutely equal to 27 old power reactors, placed in such pattern to occupy that very space), am i right?
If yes, then:
I support this idea, mainly because of the frame drops you mentioned -- in theory, the less blocks to be processed by server, the better. However, there are some important things to be taken into account:

1.This 'new' block, while being absolutely equal to the old blocks in terms of cost, benefits for ships/stations and space occupied, has some features i want to mention if to speak about combat behavior:

1) If there is shared health among individual 1*1*1 cells, it is obvious that, in combat, two groups of blocks (1 'new' (large) block versus a group of n*n*n old blocks) will behave in different ways.
2) If there is no shared health, such implementation is questionable in terms of expediency, when being compared to old blocks, as upon destruction of a single 1*1*1 cell inside a large 'new' block will lead to dissolving a 'new' block into individual 1*1*1 'old' blocks.​

2.Considering currently used in structures 32*32*32 chunk system, it will be difficult to implement these 'new' blocks without rewriting large pieces of code.​

There are, as you see, only 2 points that i see as problematic. However, they are quite heavy, as they touch such important aspect of game as "combat" and "development". Moreover, i think that the system somewhat similar to what you are proposing can be done implicitly, in the code (and i think it is already there).

 

[philthy mcnasty]

Perhaps the best way around all of this is creative use of support systems?

Imagine if you can link a stop system, to a power array. Why do this? because it will change the math. Suddenly the power array wants to be a sphere, or a triangle, or a checkerboard non connected pattern. Now you have a reason to build stop modules besides mining, orbital landings, or tractor beams.

This way, we can have role play ships that look good, and can survive well. We can make big ships better, and we open up more creativity in ship building.

We have some useless support systems right now, like push and pull. imagine if they where linked to shields, pull can cause a random miss, and push can reflect cannon and beams. Now that would be one hell of an interesting twist in combat.

Explosive would be great for engines: bigger Thurster plumes + better performance at the cost of engine explosions if hit.

This would solve a lot of balance issues, add creativity, help role players, and builds upon existing mechanics.

 

[Lockerd]

Dude, people build large ships because they want to build large ships. If you put all this blocks together, you have no ways specialize the ships in serveral ways. And NO kind of fuel in any form.
If you want less laggy ships build smaller ones. My largest ship is 946 metres long and I have the basic shape for a ship with 1700 metres and no fuel ore block changes will change that.

in no way would this reduce the external sizes of ships.

all it would do, is reduce the amount the servers and clients have to load whenever a ship is rendered.

your ship is still the same overall size, but the blocks filling it are vastly reduced, when you do this, performance actually gets better. And fuel for energy does solve a lot of problems for a lot of people, the shield blocks are in the same effect.

 

[madman Captain]

in no way would this reduce the external sizes of ships.

Ok sorry I missundstood the title of the thread. I'm thought you mean the general amount of blocks not the amount of different blocks.

all it would do, is reduce the amount the servers and clients have to load whenever a ship is rendered.

If I remember it correctly (Correct me if I'm wrong) than works the Chunk system in that way that, as long a chunk not completly empty or filled with the same kind of block, the game will request for every block in the chunk. A chunk in Starmade has 32x32x32. Even my 946 metre Titan dosent have that massive amount of same blocks in a chunk.

your ship is still the same overall size, but the blocks filling it are vastly reduced, when you do this, performance actually gets better. And fuel for energy does solve a lot of problems for a lot of people, the shield blocks are in the same effect.

If so many want people want fuel why nobody of them has written a mod for fuel?
I personally dont want fuel because I prefer large and extremly large ships. And did you realy want to maintain a Titan or a Carrier with 30 and more docks with fuel? I dont realy.

 

[Lockerd]

If so many want people want fuel why nobody of them has written a mod for fuel?

from what I've been told, it's not that simple with a game ALWAYS in a rapid update schedule (not atm of course, because of the NPC update). so they're all mostly waiting for the final release to begin full modding.

 

[jayman38]

from what I've been told, it's not that simple with a game ALWAYS in a rapid update schedule (not atm of course, because of the NPC update). so they're all mostly waiting for the final release to begin full modding.

Also, there is no official modding API, with the existing LUA functions under-documented and limited to NPC interactions, the last I heard. In short, I think you would have to release a hacked game java thing (bean?) with the necessary logic. A modding API is low on the to-do list, which means it may or may not come out much later in the production cycle, so without an API, a mod programmer is in for some hard work.

 

[KiloZulu]

I wonder if there would be a way, and a benefit, to having a "fuse" button. That is, once you have completed your ship design, you click "fuse" and all adjoining blocks of a like type fuse into one solid entity. This would substantially reduce the number of blocks kept track of on a ship. I see a problem with determining the impact of punch-through/piercing weapons, but I'm sure the genius developers could figure out the particulars.

 

[Borr]

From the Depths uses beams to reduce block count in designs. They have stats multiplied by amount of blocks they cover but when destroyed they leave bigger holes.

 

[Xskyth]

and shield blocks would be immensely more functional, if instead of having to place every individual block, we "load" blocks with other shield modules, same with rechargers. they woudln't have infinite loading, which would still prompt more for larger vessels. and they could reduce the amount of blocks in the ships and stations to render.

Having a single shield block makes sense. A 'Shield Array' block that you load with the shield capacitor and/or shield rechargers. Each shield block loaded in the array block would retain its mass, keeps things like TIE fighters from having 1 million shields. The array block would have a limited capacity, maybe 2000 blocks? But, again, when filled it would have the same mass as the 2000 blocks, just not the block count to load. Maybe this mechanic could work in addition to the current shields system. The Shield Array would still be a 1*1*1 block.

Power storage modules could be done the same way.

Thrusters are another story. if we could have larger blocks, than maybe just some larger thruster blocks that are as good, or slightly better than their smaller counter parts. some 3*3*3,6*6*6, and/or 10*10*10. the cost of each would equal the product of its dimentions.

 

[PLIX]

only for thruster, power, shield, auxillary power and maybe support systems

 

[taisong]

ummmm... I think this will reduce some lag but also reduce build skills in game.
Power is fine as it is, because it rewards good building. Power capacitors/shields can be changed to this "5x5x5 block" system. Still, I do not think it will reduce much lag. This is because, starmade is not rendering blocks covered by other opaque blocks. I think the effort to make this will not reward much in game.