A Revamp to Jamming, Cloaking, and Radar

[Lecic]

This is going to be a long one. I'll try to pace, split, and color code this as well as I can.

Hello everybody. I'd like to offer up my take on how the Jamming, Cloaking, and Radar systems should work. I think that the 3, especially Jamming and Radar, should intertwine more. I think the current Cloaking system is flawed, preventing many good looking builds. I'm going to go over how I think all of these should work in Starmade. Good luck, this'll be a lot.

Jamming System
Jamming would now use modules instead of a single computer. Jamming modules strength would vary depending on the percentage of the ship it takes up, much like current defensive effects or jump drives. The higher your jamming strength, the more powerful a radar array is needed to see you. Jamming modules would not be capped at 100%, however. The reason for this will be explained in Radar.

Radar System
Radar would also undergo some large changes. Default radar range, for astronauts and for ships without any radar arrays, is only 1K. So, with this, only entities within 1,000m will show up on your HUD and in your navigation window. However, ships will be able to build radar arrays to increase the range of their radar, and more importantly, uncover radar jammed ships. Radar arrays are built as antennas. The longer in a single dimension an array is, it gets slight percentage bonuses. Radar arrays not built on the longest axis (ie on a ship with the longest axis being x, arrays long on the y and z dimensions) get bonuses, to make it fair compared to the spinal radar arrays people would frequently have. Turrets would share radar power with the mothership. Radar is on by default, and must be manually disabled with the computer to shut down and stop draining power.

Radar and Jamming compete like this- whoever has the higher percentage of Radar or Jamming modules win. However, it isn't a complete win unless it's by a land slide. When the Radar array has 50% less power than the jammer, the ship diamond becomes visible. However, faction data, shield data, ship name, and pilot, are still invisible. Because of this, turrets will not open fire unless instructed to via the pilot targeting option. At 40% less power, the ship name becomes visible. At 25%, the pilot's name becomes visible. At 10%, the shield data become visible. At 0%, faction data finally becomes visible, allowing AI controlled turrets to finally automatically open fire.

Cloaking
Cloaking is entirely re-done. Instead of a cloaking computer doing all the work, there is a "stealth hull" and the cloaking computer to control it. Stealth hull, in unactivated mode, is similar to black crystal armor, but darker. When activated, it becomes invisible, and blocks behind it are as well. The blocks behind it aren't invisible from the inside of the ship, of course, just outside it. This would work utilizing a certain rendering bug that used to happen with open plex-doors, where it would work as if you were inside a block in build mode. The e/s cost of cloaking would be determined by how many stealth hull were active. For an effective cloaking, you'd need a full coat of the hull around your ship.


Well, that's about it for now. There's some other stuff I'd like to add, but I've been typing for a while now. I'll add it tomorrow.

 

[Valiant70]

These are some very interesting ideas all around. I've thought for a while that jamming and cloak only used a single block each.

I like the idea of radar being an actual system with range determined by something on the ship instead of being the same for everyone. This gives a reason to build dedicated scouting and command ships with advanced sensors.

I have mixed feelings about the radar jamming system. On the one hand, I like the idea of radar and jammer strength contesting each other, but on the other I'm not sure how I like having to add heavier systems to my ship for either. All I'll say is that the jammer better give my vessel enough advantage in battle to justify the extra mass and bulk. Unless I can completely hide my diamond, I'd probably be better off with more shields/weapons/engines. The idea may need work, but I like where it's going, more or less.

I like what you've done with the cloaking idea. Now, what about being able to see from the inside of a cloak ship? Will the stealth hull be transparent enough to act as a decent window? I was also thinking about a stealth door to allow your door to be invisible, but then I realized one could simply make a person sized, U-shaped tunnel out of stealth hull to hide an entrance hatch. On the other hand, that wouldn't really allow for a hangar like my last stealth ship had... Overall I really do like this idea for cloaking though. You could do some weird stuff with partially invisible ships, like making a battleship look like a frigate to bait in enemies. I just hope the power requirement isn't as exorbitant as the current cloak system.

 

[молоток]

A suggestion:
In addition to the variable ways that jamming defeats radar, you could also include a range modifier. For instance, you have to have a radar advantage of ABOVE 100% to see anything past 1km, and even a little bit of jamming could keep you from being detected. It should scale arithmetically, so that no ship would fail to notice an enemy that was in physical contact with their hull, and no ship can possibly detect a ship beyond a certain range.
I also feel that radar arrays could benefit from different shapes (you might say that radar is given a MULTIPLIER if formed into rings, or parabolic curves) or different materials. (you might be able to link metal mesh to your radar array to increase its effectiveness)

I love the idea for "stealth coatings" for a ship, but I don't understand how they would be implemented into game play. Would the stealth mode hide the ship's icon? At what point would the icon be exposed? I am familiar with the glitch you mention, would that glitch hide the targeting icon, but only if stealth hull were in the way?

A further idea might be to include the ability for the "push pulse" to totally disable all radar in a sector, for a time directly related to the power of the radar (more sensitive radars are easily blinded) and distance (simple multiplier)

Ships, once identified, should retain information that radar collects about them for a matter of minutes. In this way, a ship, once it is detected by enemy radar, would be pursued even if it strays out of identification range (but is still in view range.) I would also suggest that personal identification require MORE radar power than faction identification, not less.

Another idea might be to have total ship power use affect jamming. If a ship were to shut down engines, the jammer would be more effective. This would not be tied to power generation, but rather to power drain figures. This could lead to a ship being undetected until it fires its weapons, at which point it would be identified and attacked. Picture a ship advancing in stealth, firing torpedoes, and then fleeing as all enemy forces in the area attempt to converge. It might even trigger an EMP to scramble radar and escape.

 

[jzimmerman4]

I like the jamming and radar suggestion but the cloaking hull could be abused too easily. Here is a better idea for that: http://starmadedock.net/threads/turn-cloak-and-jammer-into-effect-systems.1605/

 

[Lecic]

I like the jamming and radar suggestion but the cloaking hull could be abused too easily. Here is a better idea for that: http://starmadedock.net/threads/turn-cloak-and-jammer-into-effect-systems.1605/

How could it be abused? It still costs power to run.

 

[WaffulMann]

I like this idea this idea is great this idea is amazing and should be implemented ASAP.
BUT. Doesn't the cloaking mechanism encourage BORGCUBEZ or BORGSPHEREZ?

Oh, and I want my stealth armors to have color too. Maybe a tad bit darker or less reflective IF they ever implement a specular map but I want colors.

 

[Valiant70]

I like the jamming and radar suggestion but the cloaking hull could be abused too easily. Here is a better idea for that: http://starmadedock.net/threads/turn-cloak-and-jammer-into-effect-systems.1605/

I disagree. It could not be abused in any unintended way. Some "abuse" is the entire purpose of cloaking (ambushes, escaping ridiculously, absurd tactical advantage, etc).

I like this idea this idea is great this idea is amazing and should be implemented ASAP.
BUT. Doesn't the cloaking mechanism encourage BORGCUBEZ or BORGSPHEREZ?

Would cube or sphere ships designed specifically for stealth really be such a bad thing?

 

[Snk]

Great idea, +1.

 

[Tempest]

Perhaps as well you could add radar receivers, passive sensors that detect active radars, and identify them. The stronger the receiver array, the farther away you can detect an active radar, with some relation to the active radar's strength, of course.

Also I feel the size of a ship should have some effect on its radar signature.

 

[Lecic]

After some discussion on chat last night, I've decided to make a few changes. Cloaking is changed so that it has a power increase the more stealth hull blocks you have. It also has a slight "shimmer" effect that increases with stealth hull amount.

Oh, and I want my stealth armors to have color too. Maybe a tad bit darker or less reflective IF they ever implement a specular map but I want colors.

You could always place lights or hull under the stuff to tint it other colors.

 

[lemdoran]

I like the idea of a special "cloakable hull", that can make stealth ships more tricky but a lot more realistic in some point.

 

[ltmauve]

Nice idea with radar/jamming. Radar arrays should have two different properties: power and fall-off. молоток mentioned something like this. The idea is that you optimize your radar array for either seeing things far away or for detecting jamming ships close up. So your fall-off would get determined by the two largest dimension of the array, and the power would be determined by the number of blocks.
Also, the offensive effect of jamming would be reduce jamming, right? Like a targeting laser.
Really not a fan of the cloaking idea because a) ships would all look very similar, and b) it would make it very easy to detect a ship capable of using cloak. Whereas with the current system, you could have any ship fitted with a cloak, and just turn it on for a moment to gain an advantage. Also, a ship can have any color hull and have decorations, hangers, anything any other ship could have.

 

[jzimmerman4]

How could it be abused? It still costs power to run.

Abused may not be the best word, but it would make all clocking ships the same color, unless there were cloaking hulls for all the colors, buts that is a lot of ids. Kind of limits creativity like the current system does so I feel that it lacks the depth that the other idea has, not that it is a bad idea by any means.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Maybe those cloaking hull things would have to be linked to a computer, and then that computer could be linked to a light to give the desired colour.

 

[Lecic]

I've said this like 6 times now, here and in chat. You can put lights or hull UNDER THE STEALTH HULL. Since it's transparent, it'll MAKE IT LOOK DIFFERENT.

 

[willvette]

Overall I like this idea, however I think that radar shouldn't just stop, but rather taper off. What I mean by this is after 1km it has a mass requirement for detection that goes up at an experimental rate, till about 500,000 (Titan) at 2km. This mass detection debuff happens before any jamming calculations. Cloaking armor reduces the mass used in the calculations | ship mass - (cloak hull / total hulls)%.
Radar upgrades extend not only base range but the outer most range by double, so a fully upgraded antenna will give radar for 4km but will also spot titans at 8km, maybe battleships at 6km.
Same holds true for space stations, larger stations will be detected from farther away. Planets and asteroids have high mass, so they are always detected.
One last modification, the computer antenna should be able to pass info on to other faction and/or neutral players. Maybe a relay computer that can be linked to any kind of info terminal (ship core, radar computer, terminal), with relay antenna that extends the range of info transfer, but I digress.

 

[El_Poulpy]

my thought about this suggestion:

• radar : agree (i would like a mechanic where you have to explore or buy maps to construct a galactic map and that you could only jump in
  • sectors you have explored or have bought its map )
• jammer : agree
• stealth : disagree

  I think the current Cloaking system is flawed, preventing many good looking builds

i more on the side of the effect solution proposed by @Stakhanov

 

[Lecic]

my thought about this suggestion:

• radar : agree (i would like a mechanic where you have to explore or buy maps to construct a galactic map and that you could only jump in
  • sectors you have explored or have bought its map )
• jammer : agree
• stealth : disagree

i more on the side of the effect solution proposed by @Stakhanov

Our stealth systems are fundamentally similar. They're both systems that you need a certain amount of to cloak your ship. Mine just needs to cover the surface area of the ship instead of sit as a box of systems in one.

 

[ltmauve]

Our stealth systems are fundamentally similar. They're both systems that you need a certain amount of to cloak your ship. Mine just needs to cover the surface area of the ship instead of sit as a box of systems in one.

That's the problem. Your ship would look vastly different if it had even the capability to cloak temporarily. Currently, you can have a temporary cloak, and no one notices until you vanish. With this, it would require refitting a ship. Also, as people have mentioned, it encourges doomcubes.

 

[Lecic]

That's the problem. Your ship would look vastly different if it had even the capability to cloak temporarily. Currently, you can have a temporary cloak, and no one notices until you vanish. With this, it would require refitting a ship. Also, as people have mentioned, it encourges doomcubes.

Yes, which is why I included the part about larger things costing more power and becoming slightly visible. So, you can't have easily cloaked doom cubes, at at small sizes it doesn't matter whether people's cloakers are boxes or not, because "doom cubes" don't matter at that size.