Recognized by Council A modest Proposal regarding Scanners, Cloakers, and Jammers.

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    Sensors detect things, scanners search for things. Basically, anyway. But it also depends on your particular brand of science or sci-fi.

    Jamming is inherently non-stealthy. It yells to everyone and their brother that there's a ship in the area, and even it's direction (Based on the origin point of the jamming EM waves) But it creates a field in which sensors/scanners can't sense or scan anything ELSE because there's so much noise. A sensitive enough (Powerful enough) scanner/sensor can pierce jamming if the jamming unit can't output enough signal noise.

    And yes, the signal grade/stealth factors should effect lock-on time and AI accuracy. NPC's should always have better aim than AI, because they have the human element in addition to whatever targeting computer the weapons have.
     
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    JonasWalker

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    One logical effect of the EM wars might be prolonged time to get missile-lock for 'blinded/jammed' ships. A ship that is generating a lot of EM-noise or that is very large should be easy to get a lock on.

    My main issue is that jamming is inherently a non-stealth activity. How can you be actively jamming the air-waves and not be announcing yourself to the galaxy? Sensors and scanners are not synonymous. I like the OP ideas; they do not have to add much complexity if handled right.
    Target location and acquisition are fundamental mechanics of modern warfare so they deserve to be well thought out in Alpha.

    Actually Jamming under this proposal does announce yourself to the galaxy at large though my writing is likely to blame for the confusion. Basically when Jamming within the resulting area of effect all other "noise" Signatures are suppressed (how much and how far it extends would depend on size of the Jamming system) but at the cost of raising the noise Signature of the one doing the Jamming by an equal amount.

    Say a ship with a Jammer rated at 60 (Widgets obviously) and a base noise Signature of 30. When turned on within the area of effect all other Signatures would be reduced by 60 (potentially into the negatives meaning they are really hard to pick up without a good Sensor array) but the one doing the Jamming would boost their Signature by the same amount. So it would go from the base of 30 to (30+60) = 90. Triple their initial Signature and effectively lighting them up on any Sensors nearby. Which if combined with stronger Returns = among other things shorter Lock On times well...hope that ship is well protected because in a sea of washed out nails and a lot of angry hammers they are going to stick out immensely. Of course this COULD be potentially abused by mounting both a Cloak and a Jammer and operating them at the same time (for a likely huge power drain) but that could be fixed either by balancing power drain or even just saying the effects cancel each other out when used on the same entity due to "Shenanigans". Depends entirely how the final numbers would shake out.
     

    Lukwan

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    Yes I got that JW. I was not articulate but my issue is with the current system not with your post. This subject has already been discussed elsewhere and your scheme is as workable as any other I have seen. I am just happy that discussion is ongoing.
     

    JonasWalker

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    Yes I got that JW. I was not articulate but my issue is with the current system not with your post. This subject has already been discussed elsewhere and your scheme is as workable as any other I have seen. I am just happy that discussion is ongoing.
    Oh, I understand now. No worries text only does have its downsides for communication.
     

    alterintel

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    I just had a thought.
    What if Sensor arrays had the same mechanic that power reactors currently have.
    If you think about it the current power mechanic makes more sense as an antenna than as a reactor.
    having a mechanic based on over all dimensions screams antenna array.
    And with a "soft cap" it helps prevent titan arrays from being too powerful.

    Just a thought ;)
     
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    No upper limit, though. As long as you can power it, an antenna can grow infinitely powerful for transmission of information. That said, if you could keep increasing the power forever, you eventually reach the point where you've got something like a gamma ray burst every time you make a space phone call.....which is hazardous for people around you.
     

    JonasWalker

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    I just had a thought.
    What if Sensor arrays had the same mechanic that power reactors currently have.
    If you think about it the current power mechanic makes more sense as an antenna than as a reactor.
    having a mechanic based on over all dimensions screams antenna array.
    And with a "soft cap" it helps prevent titan arrays from being too powerful.

    Just a thought ;)
    Thats..not a bad idea at all. Also makes it more sense than using the power capacitor mechanics.


    No upper limit, though. As long as you can power it, an antenna can grow infinitely powerful for transmission of information. That said, if you could keep increasing the power forever, you eventually reach the point where you've got something like a gamma ray burst every time you make a space phone call.....which is hazardous for people around you.
    What, who doesn't mind a little hard radiation in the morning when downloading their holographic space paper during Breakfast? ;)
     
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    Well....people who don't like burning planets to a crisp might, just might, object to it a little. However, anybody who doesn't care about the magnetic field, ozone layer, or atmosphere in general about a planet will be just fine with the random firing of gamma ray bursts for the purposes of collecting a newspaper/news video/similar media.
     
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    YES! Finally! The gamma-powered death ray! It's the most wonderful and useless weapon ever created!!! It can't even get through ships' EXTENSIVE radiation shielding! It's GENIUS!
     
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    I just realized what this thread is reminding me of: Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. Read it, mind the sarcasm, it's HILARIOUS.
     

    JonasWalker

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    I just realized what this thread is reminding me of: Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. Read it, mind the sarcasm, it's HILARIOUS.
    Have never read it personally but I know of it and from what I've heard it is quite funny. Provided you keep in mind its deliberate satire that is. :D
     

    Lukwan

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    O.K. if we are gonna talk about Gamma-Ray weapons we will need a mechanic to determine the likelihood of 'Hulkification' for any NPC scientists who get exposed. :mad: "Hulk smash puny blocks!"
     

    alterintel

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    Agreed, However Hulkification wouldn't be a good thing. Especially considering said hulk would be contained in space ship. This would result in said space ship being "smashed"
     

    Matt_Bradock

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    Well here's an idea. Instead of weaponizing the scanner, make it more useful and more needed. This unfortunately, requires a redesign of some current elements such as navigation filters.

    The scanner array should be the ship's sensors array. This means that a ship without a scanner array could have only limited information of its surroundings, only relying on basic sensors. This means the detection of heat signatures or gravitational fields, but for example, no lifesigns, ship status info (shield, armor and system hp), asteroid mass and ore info, or faction identifier.
    Scanners on ships would have 3 operating modes:
    1. Passive scanner: unless the scanner is activated, it is in passive mode, consuming a small amount of power per antenna block(just like rail mass enhancers). This would display lifesigns, serve as IFF, display shield amount, power, armor and system HP.
    2. Combat scanner ping(left click): an active scanner ping would consume a larger amount of power, send the scanner into cooldown and reveal cloaked ships in a rather large radius depending on the amount of scanner blocks in the system (and NOT the ratio to ship mass. Why would the same size of antenna be more effective on a corvette than on a destroyer?) The area cap wouldbe matching a 100% missile/beam weapon system's for consistency.
    3. Recon scanner ping(right click): sends out a differently tuned long-range scanner ping that returns the location of every active (moving, attacking, mining) ship, player or AI controlled alike, in a radius scaling with the amount of blocks in the scanner array but IT DOES NOT reveal cloaked vessels. Max scanned area is the entire current system. Has the same power usage and cooldown, isn't affected by being in own, neutral or hostile system.
    Scanners could be connected to logic, but a logic-activated scanner array could ONLY give the combat scan ping, in order to avoid spamming all nearby players with scan reports.

    Cloaking/jamming would also require a rework. A cloaker module would be the have-it-all, being able to be switched between 2 modes:
    1. Active cloaking(left click): 1500 energy/mass/sec, full cloak+jam, deactivates upon firing or getting hit by a weapon or combat scan
    2. Signature masking(right click): 50 energy/mass/sec, old jammer's function, doesn't make the ship disappear, but masks the navigation and HUD icon. Does not get interrupted by firing, or getting hit by, a weapon, unless the ship takes block damage.
    The jammer would have a completely different function, and serve as an ECM (electronic countermeasures) suite. Its main function wouldn't be hiding your ship, but instead to make targeting you a near impossible task. Instead of masking the HUD signal as it does now, the jammer would make it shake, jump, blur or multiply, giving away your ship's general direction but making targeting it the most annoying task ever, especially for AI turrets and making it plain impossible for guided missiles (heatseekers too). Getting hit by a combat scanner would turn the jammer off, but for half as long as the cloaker. It also wouldn't be turned off by taking block damage, but a power failure would affect it normally.

    Fleets could also peruse the scanner, if the order "Recon scan" and "Combat scan" would be available in the fleet manager if any ship in the fleet has a scanner array installed.
     
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    JonasWalker

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    Well to be fair the 'scanner pings frying planets' thing was more of a jest than anything else.
     
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    I would definitely like to see a change in the way scanners work. Without reading it all(it's a lot), it makes me think of how Star Citizen is doing radar and such. I could go for that. I also like Matt_Bradock's suggestion too. Either would be better than current.
     

    JonasWalker

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    I would definitely like to see a change in the way scanners work. Without reading it all(it's a lot), it makes me think of how Star Citizen is doing radar and such. I could go for that. I also like Matt_Bradock's suggestion too. Either would be better than current.
    The TLDR summary is the only bit that I've kept up to date since I didn't want to keep rewriting the entire post. Plus most people aren't going to want to read what they consider a wall of text no matter how well organized.
     
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    I think the idea of each ship having a different "Signature" is a really really nice idea. Having a ship emit a larger signal based on power or another variable even size, balanced with scanners effectivness being based on size would be a really good way to approach this topic. It could even go as to make smaller ships more effective as it would actually give an advantage to being "stealthy" without having to make a power axis tree which lets be honest, doesnt really look like a proper ship