Recognized A Concept for Space Engineers-like planets

[Shaker]

Why is that funny?

 

[jgames666]

Ew, no. Do not make the planets hand-built. That's just a horrible idea.



What happens when voxels overlap? What happens as you dig down and the voxels overlap more and more? What happens when I try to build on a the planet? Planets like this don't work.

When I say hand made, I am meaning the template or basic shape should be hand made, then terrain will generate randomly onto that.
If it is set up that way, then the game will have nothing more to do than to copy the template for each generated planet within the parameters of the config file. It will still be randomly generated and the variations will be much better than now because currently we only have one shape template and a few size variations. In fact I bet the system we have now isn't far from what i suggested. I would just personally like to see more variations. Maybe even add Gas blocks that can be generated on gas planets. Also the template would just be the starting point. After it is generated then all the terrain variations will generate and replace areas of the template. Worlds would be randomly generated off of this idea, and I believe it will boost the overall performance of the game.

Also, as for building custom planets. I really like the idea of a separate program that you could use to create planet shape templates and templates for anything that is generated on the surface of planets. This could add an awesome level of customization to every server in starmade.

 

[Lecic]

I believe it will boost the overall performance of the game.

How would it do that, exactly?

 

[therimmer96]

I believe it will boost the overall performance of the game.

Nope. Planet performance issues come less from generations and more from the continued rendering. Generation is threaded, and usually handled by the server anyway, so generation lag wouldn't lower performance that much

 

[jgames666]

How would it do that, exactly?

Guess I didn't explain the threading idea I had. lol Sorry for that.
As for performance I shouldn't have said it will boost performance. I should have said I believe it will reduce the time of generating universes for servers and for single player, so that perhaps more features could be added to planets without killing computers too badly during the first run.

Threading Idea: (Don't know if it will help that much because I haven't looked into how this game is physically programmed)
Instead of generating a planet at once, it would be able to thread 2 simultaneous generating processes after running a very short first process.
First process will determine the type, size, shape, atmosphere, and basic parameters of the planet template to be used based on the config settings.
Then one to copy the template chosen randomly within the parameters; while at the same time the third process would be able to generate the terrain and additional features of the planet then copy them to the template.

I have some development experience, but I imagine this is similar to the way it is generated now. FYI that "some experience" is only in JAVA and Web platforms, not game development.

Nope. Planet performance issues come less from generations and more from the continued rendering. Generation is threaded, and usually handled by the server anyway, so generation lag wouldn't lower performance that much

As for rendering the rendering distance could be reduced a bit when loading planets to lessen the load on the system, but beyond that I imagine performance enhancements will have to be made at a more basic level before we see any great performance enhancements. Unless they do decide to make instance planets, which I would also be against. Very touchy subject to talk about.

Also, I am a little hesitant to say, but knowing JAVA, I would have chosen a different programming platform for a game of this magnitude. I think the biggest thing that could be done to boost performance, though also probably the absolute hardest thing to do, would be to rewrite the game in C++. Then, the game could directly interact with the OS, and wouldn't have to run through the JAVA engine which in itself is a slow-down in performance. Knowing that they will not be rewriting it, I hope they can find ways to improve the performance without having to dumb down aspects of the game. It would be disappointing to see them release this game without it feeling finished.

 

[Blaza612]

Lecic plz, stop being such a party pooper. :p

In all seriousness, I think the devs have tried something similar to this, however, without the flattening as you get closer to the surface (IIRC). But even then, we will still run into the same problem we've always had. What happens when you dig down? There will always have to be an original shape, which is just visually warped for the client. As you dig down closer to the original edges, than things start breaking. Blocks overlap, and the player's gravity will be broken. One possibility to combat this could be to warp a pancake planet, and as a player reaches an end, it simply loads the chunk from the other side, and because the original shape is already flat, it should, in theory, prevent this sort of problem.

Then we run into the problem of orbital bombardment, simply warp the shape into a sphere, with the texture generalized to what's on the surface, then use Lat and Lon co-ords and convert them into plane position co-ords, allowing you to freely interact with the planet from orbit. I've dicked with spheres and Lat/Lon co-ords in unity before, it's a pain in the ass to get set up, but once it does, it works VERY nicely.

 

[serge1944]

Actualy for the block we could do something like piers in ports;so if the block doesn't touch the ground it will become a rectangle(by duplicating itself ) so it will enter the ground.And round planets with blocs can exist the more blocks there is the less it will curve,
you can aswell do planets witt layers like this _
------
----------
------
--
Itch line is a group of blocks(I dont no why no one thought of that)but in huge.
+planets are not round in real life they are rocky with a "round atsmosphere"but they are so big that the rock combined with the atmosphere gives the impresion it is smooth round.
[DOUBLEPOST=1454788908,1454788708][/DOUBLEPOST]

this is earth with out water if we do that in statmade water isent blocks we wont have problems.Not only starmade doesnt have only blocks.
[DOUBLEPOST=1454789419][/DOUBLEPOST]This is an exagerated version imagine that but less lumpy

 

[therimmer96]

Guis... they hired a new dev, Auburn

His C/V mentions nothing about Java experiance, but he does have this in his portfolio... hype?! :P

 

[Crimson-Artist]

for ppl that dont want to click on the link.

Indeed, the HYPE is REAL!

 

[jgames666]

for ppl that dont want to click on the link.

Indeed, the HYPE is REAL!

Oh man, I hope they can get something like this implemented. Big thumbs up for Auburn

 

[Lecic]

this is earth with out water if we do that in statmade water isent blocks we wont have problems.Not only starmade doesnt have only blocks.

No, it isn't. That reason behind the image is a hoax. It's a map of the differing strengths of gravity around the Earth. Earth is NOT a lumpy potato. In fact, if it was the size of a bowling ball, it would be smoother than one.

The Earth's lumpy gravity - Bad Astronomy

 

[jgames666]

No, it isn't. That reason behind the image is a hoax. It's a map of the differing strengths of gravity around the Earth. Earth is NOT a lumpy potato. In fact, if it was the size of a bowling ball, it would be smoother than one.

The Earth's lumpy gravity - Bad Astronomy

I don't believe the earth would be smoother than a bowling ball. It has mountains, valleys, Ravines, the Mariana Trench, The Grand Canyon, So on and so forth. It is not perfectly round however I do know that you are correct about the earth not actually being a lumpy potato. It has imperfections and is mostly round and mostly smooth, but doesn't quite qualify.

Lecic is right though. That is by far not a close representation of the earth's spherical condition. However, for this game I think getting to rounder planets would be nice.

 

[Pacific_Jim]

Bowling balls are also covered in crevices and imperfections, they're just too small to see and negligible compared to the overall shape. Planets are like that. The various imperfections stand out to use because we're comparatively tiny. Compared to the overall size of the Earth though they're nothing.

 

[Lecic]

I don't believe the earth would be smoother than a bowling ball. It has mountains, valleys, Ravines, the Mariana Trench, The Grand Canyon, So on and so forth. It is not perfectly round however I do know that you are correct about the earth not actually being a lumpy potato. It has imperfections and is mostly round and mostly smooth, but doesn't quite qualify.

Proof that the Earth is smoother than a billiard ball

Back on topic, though, I agree. Rounder planets would be nice, but the planets would need to be massive for that to work well without distortion of objects on the surface. SE avoids this by having planets made of voxels, while their structures are not. (SE structures are actually just lots of 3D models stuck together, not voxel.)

 

[Valiant70]

The main problem with planets as described in the OP is getting them to act like you're actually walking around on a sphere. It's pretty well impossible without some really weird stuff going on.

The easiest (and probably best) solution is to use a square map, but this makes things just a tad odd because either each "pole" of the planet is a line rather than a point, and you also get two equators. If you want only one equator, you can only have one pole. (If it makes any more sense, think of the planet as a torus rather than a sphere because that's how it acts.) Even if you decide to make each pole a point artificially by just sticking two pins in the square map and calling them poles, it just doesn't act like walking on a sphere and it never will exactly. You have the same issues as with line "poles." Things will always be a bit odd.

I've thought through quite a few other possibilities (and believe me, I got into some WEIRD abstract concepts with my crazy brain), but can't come up with anything better. Using a "squashed cube" like Seed of Andromeda causes weirdness at the corners which that game has only succeeded in masking visually. Somewhere there are images of Schema's failed attempt to make a round planet that way before dodecahedronal planets were implemented.

A cube planet would lend itself best to the game's geometry, but the edges become sharp, 90 degree dropoffs. Perhaps beveled edges would help, or rounded mesh edges.

There are a number of ways a planet rework could go, but everyone must remember that there is no perfect solution. Schema may decide to use some form of "torus world," or he may have something else up his sleeve. If you want the gorey details of my rampant thought processes leading up to these conclusions, check out this thread.

 

[Croquelune]

I was really sceptic on the topic; but that... that roxx.

 

[Valiant70]

I was really sceptic on the topic; but that... that roxx.

It looks better than it is. Such planets start to have issues when you try to build something like a skyscraper or a space elevator. Something tall is wider at the top than at the bottom.

 

[Ithirahad]

It looks better than it is. Such planets start to have issues when you try to build something like a skyscraper or a space elevator. Something tall is wider at the top than at the bottom.

At that scale, yes. Scale them up to 5km across and implement a (high) build ceiling and a non-block mantle/core layer for sanity's sake, and it doesn't look so bad any more. If you want a space elevator just use a docked entity.

 

[banks456]

I know Schema has considered making planets like Space Engineers, after seeing them added into that game, and I'm sure I'm not the first person to suggest or advocate for something like this, but... I don't think the horse has been quite beaten enough yet.

Full disclaimer: I don't know if this is the best way for these planets to be implemented. I'm not en experienced programmer, nothing on the level that would be required to actually code this, but I think I know enough about the way the game works to say it's probably possible. I do know it won't be a piece of cake to implement this, either my way or a better way, but if it does work for gameplay as well as I think it will, it will definitely be worth it.

I love this idea. Although Starmade should be it's own game but having realistic planets are becoming a pretty standard thing. I would love to see this game get realistic looking planets. I don't want Starmade to look like Space Engineers but I think starmade still gives you a minecraft vibe because of the current planets and giving it more of a round planet look would make Starmade it's own game in my personal opinion

 

[jgames666]

I love this idea. Although Starmade should be it's own game but having realistic planets are becoming a pretty standard thing. I would love to see this game get realistic looking planets. I don't want Starmade to look like Space Engineers but I think starmade still gives you a minecraft vibe because of the current planets and giving it more of a round planet look would make Starmade it's own game in my personal opinion

I also agree. I'm not sure how the rounder planets will look or function, but if they make them rounder it would be better. I'm not against them making them Much larger also to make this task easier.

If they could find a way to make a D100 like in d&d (it's I believe the largest dice), I think it would look Very close to round. Then All they need to do is find a way to distort gravity around the corners better. They could make each side of the D100 half the size of the current size of the planet plates. Then they wouldn't have to distort the blocks of the planet. Just keep the same planet mechanics, but add a custom mechanism to traverse the corners with building. Like a corner Rail docking bridge that will allow for passage over corners. Just another thought I had to throw in.

Of course, this would need a ton of things to work better to be possible. For one performance would need to be good enough to handle massive planets like the D100. I think that would be AWESOME though.

D100: