Ideas from a titan builder

[pilot2007]

First off, i have to say i love this game. But there are some noticeable problems when building very large ships. I typically go big... really BIG! 1000m-2000m long builds that has 2mil blocks+ titans. Building so large means you have to rely on systems that are lacking in this game. I'm sure others have brought this up but i felt its my obligation as an alpha tester to voice my concerns to help with a better game.

1) Turrets currently do not have the ability to properly protect titans. http://starmadedock.net/threads/turrets-system-with-pictures-poll.2764/ has the right idea. Let the turrets move freely and allow the weapon systems to remain inside the ship. Also letting the turrets become apart of the body so it will use the shields. Allow us to have more options of control over the AI of the turrets. I shouldn't have to fly really close to an enemy while keeping them at a certain angle for a turret to work.

2) The main reason i wanted to make the thread was to talk about turning. Real world turning based on mass is great and should be implemented instead of length of ship. Why not just create directional thruster. Allow the thrusters to face different directions that would increase the turn rate. directional thrust based with mass would allow faster turns for massive ships but nothing crazy. it would allow the ships to be more manageable and fun to play.

 

[Criss]

1: Turrets will be changed in upcoming content patches. Although they will likely get nerfed, not buffed in any way. The devs have stated reasons why having turrets share shields is a bad idea. I believe it had to do with unreachable indestructible turrets inside of large ships. I could be wrong.

2: Read this
http://starmadedock.net/threads/thrust-mechanics-explained.2696/

 

[Neon_42]

Real world turning is not just based on mass. It is also dependant on the dimensions of the object. It usually scales linearly with mass and as the square of the dimensions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia

 

[Megacrafter127]

Real world turning is not just based on mass. It is also dependant on the dimensions of the object.

well, it generally depends on how distant every infinetly small amount of the mass is from the axis of rotation.

It usually scales linearly with mass and as the square of the dimensions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia

Only when the object's density is smooth and the object has a regularly defined shape, both of which are not granted for ships.

 

[Neon_42]

well, it generally depends on how distant every infinetly small amount of the mass is from the axis of rotation.

Only when the object's density is smooth and the object has a regularly defined shape, both of which are not granted for ships.

It still then scales by volume. as M=/rho * Vol. adding extra dimensionality to it but still only scales linearly with mass.

 

[Megacrafter127]

It still then scales by volume. as M=/rho * Vol. adding extra dimensionality to it but still only scales linearly with mass.

It would also depend on where the axis of rotation is in relation to the object in question, as one can enforce a rotation along an axis that doesn't intersect the CoM.

 

[Neon_42]

It would also depend on where the axis of rotation is in relation to the object in question, as one can enforce a rotation along an axis that doesn't intersect the CoM.

Then you append the parallel axis theorem. I = I_com +mr^2, and again you have an inertia that scales linearly with Mass and as the square of its dimensions. You will never find a example otherwise. One way to think about this is that the moment of inertia always has to have the same units {kg *m^2}.
[DOUBLEPOST=1426792320,1426791941][/DOUBLEPOST]you can look up the inertia tensor and find that in terms of this game calculating 100% real world accurate inertia will be computationally expensive. Therefore whatever system is developed needs to incorporate the same scaling to best approximate ship behavior. Which means a linear contribution from the mass of the ship, and by the square of the dimensions of the ship. I think it would be best to approximate all ships as rectangular prisms. This way the moment of inertia tensor can be reduced to three calculations based on 4 ship values.

 

[Megacrafter127]

Then you append the parallel axis theorem. I = I_com +mr^2, and again you have an inertia that scales linearly with Mass and as the square of its dimensions. You will never find a example otherwise. One way to think about this is that the moment of inertia always has to have the same units {kg *m^2}.
[DOUBLEPOST=1426792320,1426791941][/DOUBLEPOST]you can look up the inertia tensor and find that in terms of this game calculating 100% real world accurate inertia will be computationally expensive. Therefore whatever system is developed needs to incorporate the same scaling to best approximate ship behavior. Which means a linear contribution from the mass of the ship, and by the square of the dimensions of the ship. I think it would be best to approximate all ships as rectangular prisms. This way the moment of inertia tensor can be reduced to three calculations based on 4 ship values.

Yes, but a different multiplier may have been applied.

 

[whooplaah]

pilot2007 I disagree on both points. In essence, these are balancing points that keep 2-million-mass ships from becoming a standard of gameplay. If the ship is too large to be fun, try building a smaller ship.

About the Turrets:
A rail-system is coming that will allow for moving parts. Personally I'm looking forward to this feature immensely and hope to see turrets docked to rails controlled by logic.

If your turrets can't see a target, then the ship has a blind-spot. This is part of the design process, not a missing feature of the game.

About the Turning:

Allow the thrusters to face different directions that would increase the turn rate. directional thrust based with mass would allow faster turns for massive ships but nothing crazy. it would allow the ships to be more manageable and fun to play.

I think that the loss of maneuverability is a good way to balance 2-million-mass ships against 50-mass ships. In movies large ships don't turn and fire. They move in rather straight lines while fighters do the zipping and dodging and while turrets do the aiming. In any Star Wars fight or Halo battle the big ships look like they are moving through syrup while the smaller ships fly about.

If you want realistic physics then the ship has to turn slowly because the shear-strength of the hull would fail if it turned quickly. I don't think that a player should have a big ship with the maneuverability/turn speed/acceleration of a small ship - that's over powered.

 

[Megacrafter127]

If you want realistic physics then the ship has to turn slowly because the shear-strength of the hull would fail if it turned quickly.

Just a quick debunk of the realiistic physics argument(although balance>realism):
If the force required to turn is applied to all parts of the hull equally all the time(a.k.a cover entire hull with turning thrusters), the effect would be extremely reduced. And the centrifugal force can also be countered by those thrusters, unless the ship turns WAY too fast.
However, which ship of any lore is almost completely covered in turning thrusters?