Missile-beam power usage scaling? Intentional or bug?

[Deadoon]

This is something odd that I noticed, when you have missiles by themselves, they have increased scaling when you have multiple launchers, however missile-beam seem to have no scaling increase.

A 1-0(just connect to computer for lock on) system claims to use 750 power per shot, while the individual launchers of a 30-0 system claim the same, but without beam attached they cost 2925 per missile and are dumb fire rather than lock on.

I noticed this in an experimental multi missile launcher to deal with ams'.

This seems really exploitable, as my small 30-10-30 missile-beam-explosive launcher has 250 damage , 25 second reload, 22 explosive radius and 198 speed missiles at 2500 per launch.

I don't play online, but this could be a problem with someone making a Macross missile barrage fighter that has lock on with simple X-0 missile-beam launchers strewn across his fighter.

 

[Mered4]

This is something odd that I noticed, when you have missiles by themselves, they have increased scaling when you have multiple launchers, however missile-beam seem to have no scaling increase.

A 1-0(just connect to computer for lock on) system claims to use 750 power per shot, while the individual launchers of a 30-0 system claim the same, but without beam attached they cost 2925 per missile and are dumb fire rather than lock on.

I noticed this in an experimental multi missile launcher to deal with ams'.

This seems really exploitable, as my small 30-10-30 missile-beam-explosive launcher has 250 damage , 25 second reload, 22 explosive radius and 198 speed missiles at 2500 per launch.

I don't play online, but this could be a problem with someone making a Macross missile barrage fighter that has lock on with simple X-0 missile-beam launchers strewn across his fighter.

Beam missiles were adjusted a little while back. They give twice the power, four times the damage, twice the speed, and four times the reload of a default missile with the same block count. I dunno how that effects your numbers - i'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[CyberTao]

Beam missiles were adjusted a little while back. They give twice the power, four times the damage, twice the speed, and four times the reload of a default missile with the same block count. I dunno how that effects your numbers - i'm not sure what you're getting at.

4x the damage, but only 2x the power of the basic missile? That sounds broken as shit mate. Power cost by default is Damage*10, the only weapons that do not follow that is Missile/pulse (I think), Cannon/Beam and the damage pulses iirc. You sure you're not just talking about a specific server?

 

[Mered4]

4x the damage, but only 2x the power of the basic missile? That sounds broken as shit mate. Power cost by default is Damage*10, the only weapons that do not follow that is Missile/pulse (I think), Cannon/Beam and the damage pulses iirc. You sure you're not just talking about a specific server?

Quite. It makes missiles actually useful against shields and the like. Believe me, if they took the full power, you would need TONS more capacitors :D

They take so long to reload that it balances out.

 

[CyberTao]

Quite. It makes missiles actually useful against shields and the like. Believe me, if they took the full power, you would need TONS more capacitors :D

They take so long to reload that it balances out.

You're gonna have to point that out for me mate. No wheres in this config is the power usage less than Damage*10. And this is vanilla configs (Do note that all /combinations have an implied +1 to each value).

 

[Deadoon]

4x the damage, but only 2x the power of the basic missile? That sounds broken as shit mate. Power cost by default is Damage*10, the only weapons that do not follow that is Missile/pulse (I think), Cannon/Beam and the damage pulses iirc. You sure you're not just talking about a specific server?

He is wrong on pretty much all his numbers, a missile when bound to a secondary module still does 10X damage in power usage, basic missiles fire at 75 damage, 750 power, a missile-beam uses 450-4500 when it is 1-1.

What I am asking about is why does 30 separate launchers(fires 30 missiles) connected to a secondary computer with no modules use the less power per launcher than 30 separate launchers without a secondary computer.

My 30-10-30 missile-beam-explosive launcher uses 75000(2500*30) power for 7500(250*30) damage, while delinked from explosives and beam computers does 2250 damage(75*30) while using 87750(2925*30) power, yet if I link it to a beam comp with nothing else I get lock on missiles that do 75 damage with 750 power usage. Hence why I think it is a bug.

My power usage would go UP from using no computer linked to it, while my damage would go down.

I made an album of the different configs and their individual weapon stats: http://imgur.com/a/LOX00

 

[CyberTao]

He is wrong on pretty much all his numbers, a missile when bound to a secondary module still does 10X damage in power usage, basic missiles fire at 75 damage, 750 power, a missile-beam uses 450-4500 when it is 1-1.

What I am asking about is why does 30 seperate launchers(fires 30 missiles) connected to a secondary computer with no modules use the less power per launcher than 30 seperate launchers without a secondary computer.

My 30-10-30 missile-beam-explosive launcher uses 75000(2500*30) power for 7500(250*30) damage, while delinked from explosives and beam computers does 2250 damage(75*30) while using 87750(2925*30) power, yet if I link it to a beam comp with nothing else I get lock on missiles that do 75 damage with 750 power usage. Hence why I think it is a bug.

My power usage would go UP from using no computer linked to it, while my damage would go down.

The way you put in your numbers confuses me, since 30-10-30 just looks like 1 group of 30/10/30. If you were more exact in your example, I could take a better guess.

I believe you are asking why you get the Lockon missile type, without any increase in damage, power costs or reload? That is because the Master/slave/effect system is customizable. If you used 10 Missiles and 5 cannons (slaving the cannons to the missiles), you get half of the modifiers. People use it to tweak their weapons and alter radius/reload/speed on their missiles (applies to other weapons as well).

The fact that any missile can be made into a lockon by just using the computer is an annoying by-product of said system in my opinion, but is a feature as far as I know.

 

[Deadoon]

The way you put in your numbers confuses me, since 30-10-30 just looks like 1 group of 30/10/30. If you were more exact in your example, I could take a better guess.

I believe you are asking why you get the Lockon missile type, without any increase in damage, power costs or reload? That is because the Master/slave/effect system is customizable. If you used 10 Missiles and 5 cannons (slaving the cannons to the missiles), you get half of the modifiers. People use it to tweak their weapons and alter radius/reload/speed on their missiles (applies to other weapons as well).

The fact that any missile can be made into a lockon by just using the computer is an annoying by-product of said system in my opinion, but is a feature as far as I know.

Look at the pictures, I am refering to power usage. Also, I have specified since the first post that this is a multiple launcher system and the title of the thread refers to power usage, not secondary effects.
A set of 30 launchers that each launch their own will use 2925 power each, but if you link the missile comp to a beam comp, you will only use 750 per launch while also gaining lock on. I know how the system works, it just seems that missiles are not taking into account the +10% power usage per output point on a computer when linked to a secondary.

The album shows how it is set up.

 

[CyberTao]

Look at the pictures, I am refering to power usage. Also, I have specified since the first post that this is a multiple launcher system and the title of the thread refers to power usage, not secondary effects.
A set of 30 launchers that each launch their own will use 2925 power each, but if you link the missile comp to a beam comp, you will only use 750 per launch while also gaining lock on. I know how the system works, it just seems that missiles are not taking into account the +10% power usage per output point on a computer when linked to a secondary.

The album shows how it is set up.

Firstly, I said not to use the weapon display screen, some of the numbers are bugged. Second, I hadn't refreshed the page and pictures were not there, hence why they are not included in my quote.

But it does appear that the additional power cost isn't being applied to weapons with a slave. That would be a bug, something to stick onto the bug tracker, if it isn't already there.

 

[Deadoon]

Firstly, I said not to use the weapon display screen, some of the numbers are bugged. Second, I hadn't refreshed the page and pictures were not there, hence why they are not included in my quote.

But it does appear that the additional power cost isn't being applied to weapons with a slave. That would be a bug, something to stick onto the bug tracker, if it isn't already there.

Power usage is exactly right on target for the calculations, my ship has 1.5 mil reserve and 400k regen(I just filled the in between areas of my power area with capacitors), The 120 pack launcher for the front of my ship will use~20% of my power rather than nearly 3 times my capacitor supply, and I regen it in a second.

Also, weapons with slaves do use power when multi linked, just not missiles. A cannon-cannon with 2 outputs will use 110% power still. Maybe it has to do with how the lock on effect works?

Personally, I like how it works, I actually can't understand the whole "nerf multiple outputs, while making single outputs less effective" thing caused by having missiles being the only weapon able to be shot down and rendered entirely useless. A rack of launchers on a ship has a problem with getting larger missiles out for a cold launch due to the size of the gas producer needed, while smaller missiles can be multi packed into the same tube and hot launched safely.

 

[CyberTao]

Power usage is exactly right on target for the calculations

Just because it is right once, doesn't mean it is always right. Has been a few times that screen has spit out wrong numbers and caused confusion. I used a plain core, filled the default storage and then remove any regen and fired.

A cannon-cannon with 2 outputs will use 110% power still. Maybe it has to do with how the lock on effect works?

It seems to be a bug with missiles slaves in general, since even a /cannon or /missile slave is missing the power increase.

Multiple output are nerfed, because otherwise using more than 1 output defeats any use for effects like explosive, punch or pierce when done right. Missiles themselves allow for massive destruction of hull just by being missiles, they are hull breaker weapons. If you don't like the increased cost per output, there is an value to switch it off in the configs.

If it's broken, it needs to get fixed. Some people may like it or want to play around with it in their own server.

 

[MrFURB]

I can confirm that missiles with a computer slaved to the support slot lose their power use multiplier. Next time I see the appropriate folks about I'll message them about it.

 

[Deadoon]

Just because it is right once, doesn't mean it is always right. Has been a few times that screen has spit out wrong numbers and caused confusion. I used a plain core, filled the default storage and then remove any regen and fired.


It seems to be a bug with missiles slaves in general, since even a /cannon or /missile slave is missing the power increase.

Multiple output are nerfed, because otherwise using more than 1 output defeats any use for effects like explosive, punch or pierce when done right. Missiles themselves allow for massive destruction of hull just by being missiles, they are hull breaker weapons. If you don't like the increased cost per output, there is an value to switch it off in the configs.

If it's broken, it needs to get fixed. Some people may like it or want to play around with it in their own server.

I'd rather see missiles re-balanced to actually deal the damage they claim to deal(or be nerfed to like 15 damage per missile), like have the destruction they cause spread out evenly to surrounding blocks if they destroy the one they hit.

It really seems unrealistic as all hell to have everyone basically launching ICBMs(even missile beam) at each-other rather than clusters of smaller missiles, as missiles are pretty much the only weapon system in use that is about number of launchers rather than focusing on maximizing the use of minimal outputs. It encourages turret spam with several computers and maybe 3 launchers per comp, providing huge numbers of launchers while minimizing power effects. 12-4-12 missile-beam-explosive with 3 launcher groups would give you 3 1000 damage missiles ever 25 seconds, and is cheap. Why 1000 damage? Advanced armor breakpoint without defense modules. It is way too easy to get that level damage.

The only one that comes close is the Missile-missile heat seeker, and that is indiscriminate in a way that should never occur. It should fire forward and find a target in front of it rather than deciding to do a 180 and hit something behind you. That would never happen in reality for the simple reason that the angle the sensor is at would prevent it. It is plainly the most stupid weapon system in the game beyond overloading AMS, but the collateral is too high to be considered viable.