Question about block ratio for weapons

[Cablestinks]

Is there any benefit to adding more secondary or effect blocks past the matching of the primary or past the 100 percent? ie if i have 100 primary, 120 2nd, 300 effect, is there any difference than having 100, 100, 100?

 

[Criss]

The only difference is the secondary weapon blocks will continue to add their damage to the total damage output. Beyond that, there is not additional effect achieved by adding more than the 1:1:1 ratio for anything.

 

[Mered4]

The only difference is the secondary weapon blocks will continue to add their damage to the total damage output. Beyond that, there is not additional effect achieved by adding more than the 1:1:1 ratio for anything.

Don't forget the redundancy - if you lose a chunk of the secondary, you'll still have a functioning weapon.

Which isn't super useful, but it's a nice perk.

 

[verinas]

The only difference is the secondary weapon blocks will continue to add their damage to the total damage output. Beyond that, there is not additional effect achieved by adding more than the 1:1:1 ratio for anything.

I have a related question, i keep hearing secondary weapons add damage but when i do the math on a cannon secondary to a cannon primary they only add rate of fie and lower the base damage so the dps remains the same at the cost of a lot of block space. Is it suppose to add to the overall dps?

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

The only difference is the secondary weapon blocks will continue to add their damage to the total damage output. Beyond that, there is not additional effect achieved by adding more than the 1:1:1 ratio for anything.

No, that is not true. Once you hit 100% the only thing you gain is redundancy

I have a related question, i keep hearing secondary weapons add damage but when i do the math on a cannon secondary to a cannon primary they only add rate of fie and lower the base damage so the dps remains the same at the cost of a lot of block space. Is it suppose to add to the overall dps?

DPS of every weapon but Missile Pulse is 5 DPS per block, any decrease in fire rate increases damage and any increase in fire rate decreases damage. Barring rounding errors the DPS should always be 5 per block

 

[verinas]

No, that is not true. Once you hit 100% the only thing you gain is redundancy

DPS of every weapon but Missile Pulse is 10 DPS per block, any decrease in fire rate increases damage and any increase in fire rate decreases damage. Barring rounding errors the DPS should always be 10 per block

I had a gun that did 400 dps with no secondary, cannons with 400 damage ever 1 sec, i added a cannon secondary with 100% effect (so equal amounts of cannons linked to the slave), it still did 400 dps with 40 damage ever 0.1 sec. I tested it and shoot a ship and the numbers reported was as the UI said, 40 damage. That means i didnt get any damage per sec from the secondary links, just higher rate of fire with a massive size increase.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

I had a gun that did 400 dps with no secondary, cannons with 400 damage ever 1 sec, i added a cannon secondary with 100% effect (so equal amounts of cannons linked to the slave), it still did 400 dps with 40 damage ever 0.1 sec. I tested it and shoot a ship and the numbers reported was as the UI said, 40 damage. That means i didnt get any damage per sec from the secondary links, just higher rate of fire with a massive size increase.

Checks out in my game. You have to ignore the DPS report in the weapons computer, that is wrong, it doesn't actually take ROF into account. This is confirmed by the actually damage dealt.

 

[Criss]

I don't see why adding a weapon before hitting the cap adds the additional damage but placing any more than the cap does not. I see no reason to restrict that.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

I don't see why adding a weapon before hitting the cap adds the additional damage but placing any more than the cap does not. I see no reason to restrict that.

Well otherwise you could just make a big slave and spam the crap out of little single barrel guns as the master and they would shoot massively powerful rapid fire shots. I'm sure there are other official reason but that's how I look at it. You'd have to ask Calbiri for a more official stance.

 

[Marduk_Zoekoff]

Checks out in my game. You have to ignore the DPS report in the weapons computer, that is wrong, it doesn't actually take ROF into account. This is confirmed by the actually damage dealt.

Ok tell me if I'm looking at this right, because I just assumed dps was damage per second. however even though they both claim dps 400 the one on the right has a 1000ms reload so ten seconds per 400 point shot? Would that not be more like 40 dps? The one on the left fires an 80 point shot every 100ms in effect 80 dps. and over the same ten seconds the faster fire weapon deals 800pts vs the 400pt slower weapon? I have not tried to look at this myself but I find the idea that the "DPS" rating can be that far off especially if like me you previously assumed it was correct. Did I understand this right or did I miss something that would be obvious to more veteran players.

 

[Calbiri]

1000ms is not 10 second reload, it is a 1 second reload.

Weapon slaves contribute to a maximum of 100% to the primary, after that, they should continue to contribute *only* additional damage to the primary (their block count is included with the primary block count before the primary does the math for its damage per shot.)
It is also silly to compare the numbers in a 160 block combo with that of an 40 block system, as that was not the intent of sven when he posted that image.

Another quick correction, weapons are set to 5 dps per block generally. That is damage per second, not shot.
A simple example is;

• 12/0/0 system does 60 dps
• 6/6/0 system does 60 dps
• 4/4/4 system does 60 dps
• 1/6/5 system does 60 dps

This 60 dps can be a 60 damage shot every 1000ms (which is 1 second) or it might be 6 damage shots every 100ms (1/10th second) or any other combination of rate of fire and damage per shot.

If you are getting readouts or in game weapon testing results different from this (on a server that has not modified its combat configs) then please submit a bug report. I can tell you the intent of our designs all day, but bugs happen :p

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

1000ms is not 10 second reload, it is a 1 second reload.

Weapon slaves contribute to a maximum of 100% to the primary, after that, they should continue to contribute *only* additional damage to the primary (their block count is included with the primary block count before the primary does the math for its damage per shot.)
It is also silly to compare the numbers in a 160 block combo with that of an 40 block system, as that was not the intent of sven when he posted that image.

Another quick correction, weapons are set to 5 dps per block generally. That is damage per second, not shot.
A simple example is;

• 12/0/0 system does 60 dps
• 6/6/0 system does 60 dps
• 4/4/4 system does 60 dps
• 1/6/5 system does 60 dps

This 60 dps can be a 60 damage shot every 1000ms (which is 1 second) or it might be 6 damage shots every 100ms (1/10th second) or any other combination of rate of fire and damage per shot.

Actually a 1/6/5 will not deal 60DPS, it will deal 15 dps. Additional slaves or effects past 100% do not add damage.

 

[Calbiri]

I've edited my post to clarify

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

I've edited my post to clarify

If you look at the first screenshot I posted the HUGE gun deals only 15 DPS because it has a single master. Honestly i've never regarded this as a bug and I've did a lot of testing on the balance of weapons. I don't think you should be able to make high damage guns just by simply having a big slave and a single master block.

 

[Calbiri]

The slave systems are more exspensive to craft, why not allow them to function that way?
Anyways, as mentioned, it is the intent to have them behave as I mentioned, if they are displaying wrong or performing wrong thats something that needs to be reported, as I can only set the config (and it is set correctly :P) It's up to schema to check the code to make sure the numbers in the config are used properly in the game.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

The slave systems are more exspensive to craft, why not allow them to function that way?
Anyways, as mentioned, it is the intent to have them behave as I mentioned, if they are displaying wrong or performing wrong thats something that needs to be reported, as I can only set the config (and it is set correctly :p) It's up to schema to check the code to make sure the numbers in the config are used properly in the game.

I know it's set correctly, I was the tester on that task :p That one really ping ponged back and forth for a while

I'm curious to know though how is a cannon slave more expensive to craft than a cannon master?

Even in a single system multiple size weapon arrays will have different damage. The size of the each array in the master determines the damage of each shot, those add up to the total size. Slaves adjust the values but they have a hard cap and once they reach that cap they can no longer adjust the value. I don't believe the system is programmed to add a flat DPS rate per block. Of course if the game didn't have this hard cap adding more slaves to say cannon cannon configuration would continue to increase the fire rate until the game could no longer handle it.

I don't think the intention of the master and slave system is to put the emphasis on slaves. If all modules did add DPS over 100% it would take all the strategy out of weapon building. "I want a rapid fire cannon", okay slap down 1000 slaves. Now I have 5000 DPS potential. Put one barrel down, now I have a single output dealing 500 Damage per shot. Put down a second, both of those would deal 250 damage per shot. now I want to add and effect, okay two modules, 100% effect. I don't know about you all but this seems like the wrong way to craft weapons.

 

[Marduk_Zoekoff]

1000ms is not 10 second reload, it is a 1 second reload.

Weapon slaves contribute to a maximum of 100% to the primary, after that, they should continue to contribute *only* additional damage to the primary (their block count is included with the primary block count before the primary does the math for its damage per shot.)
It is also silly to compare the numbers in a 160 block combo with that of an 40 block system, as that was not the intent of sven when he posted that image.

Another quick correction, weapons are set to 5 dps per block generally. That is damage per second, not shot.
A simple example is;

• 12/0/0 system does 60 dps
• 6/6/0 system does 60 dps
• 4/4/4 system does 60 dps
• 1/6/5 system does 60 dps

This 60 dps can be a 60 damage shot every 1000ms (which is 1 second) or it might be 6 damage shots every 100ms (1/10th second) or any other combination of rate of fire and damage per shot.

If you are getting readouts or in game weapon testing results different from this (on a server that has not modified its combat configs) then please submit a bug report. I can tell you the intent of our designs all day, but bugs happen :p

Sorry yes of course 1000ms is one second, that slipped my mind for a moment. However, I was not really trying to compare the weapons except for the fact that both say 400dps. One with 40 blocks should be 200 dps then should it not, and the 160 should be 800 dps. How does it get to 400dps for both?

I just read that again, now I think I see what your trying to say. Basically it is just a bug, one that I should not see on a server with unmodified combat configs. That was all I really needed to know. Thank you.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Sorry yes of course 1000ms is one second, that slipped my mind for a moment. However, I was not really trying to compare the weapons except for the fact that both say 400dps. One with 40 blocks should be 200 dps then should it not, and the 160 should be 800 dps. How does it get to 400dps for both?

The displayed DPS in the weapons tab is wrong, it's a bug. It's been that way for a while, it'll be fixed eventually.

 

[Marduk_Zoekoff]

The displayed DPS in the weapons tab is wrong, it's a bug. It's been that way for a while, it'll be fixed eventually.

thank you. that was all i really wanted to know.

 

[CyberTao]

I don't think the intention of the master and slave system is to put the emphasis on slaves. If all modules did add DPS over 100% it would take all the strategy out of weapon building. "I want a rapid fire cannon", okay slap down 1000 slaves. Now I have 5000 DPS potential. Put one barrel down, now I have a single output dealing 500 Damage per shot. Put down a second, both of those would deal 250 damage per shot. now I want to add and effect, okay two modules, 100% effect. I don't know about you all but this seems like the wrong way to craft weapons.

I don't follow this logic at all, since the total block count still remains the same, it uses the same amount of space. Want a single block output? Sure, it'll be hard to hit, but once you lose it, the gun is gone.

What about when you start losing blocks? Masters tend to be upfront in my experience, and without slave adding past the 100% you end up losing double the dps per block lost and are now lugging around dead weight (Will ignore if you use the "once you start losing hull, you're dead anyways" argument). I dunno, you'd need to explain the 'strategy' you're talking about for that to make any sense to me, considering we have the option to bury all the weapons in the center anyways.