Inclusive Gaming

[cancer313]

Both, because Omni is a smart lad. Notice the lack of bright red space suit. He is in grey attire. He is plain, as in lack of detail density. He is dave, as in kubricks lad with that smirk, name and complexion.

Your passion for equality is noble. Your efforts misguided. When you discuss representation it almost reads as pity. Starmade is not a platform to represent who you feel are incapable of representing themselves or to empower *insert non white male* through positive discrimination.

When the new skins are ready, i very much doubt they will be a Dave 2.0. I hope to see different characters (probably still in plain grey mind). But to cram them in now with no thought other than "make him non white to hit the quota" is disingenuous and less pressing than critical Steam release trouble shooting.

As for the trailer, most of the bodies shown were AI using default AI skins. Which as you noted, we have 1 of.

Kupu, I respect your work, and I respect your efforts to actually thoroughly read what I said. I am afraid you are misunderstanding what I mean but honestly it doesn't matter. I do not care how these people view my argument. The discussion is besides the point. If Omni is including more skins, then I look forward to it, as that was all I was really hoping for. Have a nice night.

 

[kupu]

More skins are coming eventually. It's a minefield of a topic for both sides, unfortunately the last time it was mentioned was a rather aggressive "devs are racist." and ended in a thread lock

Thank you for constructing legible points and the suggestions. They are for the most part in line with the guy who made the dave model, if that's any solace.

 

[Bench]

I'll speak to the trailer, the reason why there weren't any other skins represented , even community created ones, was a technical limitation. I would have loved to show more skins as customization is a big thing in StarMade, but at the moment AI only have the one skin, and it's not a simple fix to add in other options in that regard. Also the burden on running the server and the setup for recording with the definition we were pushing for meant it could only be run local, which prevented us from having the AI characters played by other players otherwise they would have been lagging all across the screen as tests showed us.

So the representation of characters in the trailer was purely a technical limitation, and I think most people watching would get that. Alpha is alpha after all.

 

[cancer313]

I'll speak to the trailer, the reason why there weren't any other skins represented , even community created ones, was a technical limitation. I would have loved to show more skins as customization is a big thing in StarMade, but at the moment AI only have the one skin, and it's not a simple fix to add in other options in that regard. Also the burden on running the server and the setup for recording with the definition we were pushing for meant it could only be run local, which prevented us from having the AI characters played by other players otherwise they would have been lagging all across the screen as tests showed us.

So the representation of characters in the trailer was purely a technical limitation, and I think most people watching would get that. Alpha is alpha after all.

Thats cool, yeah I figured it was something like that. It just made me think you know? Sort of opened my eyes to why it sort of mattered.[DOUBLEPOST=1417747452,1417747139][/DOUBLEPOST]

More skins are coming eventually. It's a minefield of a topic for both sides, unfortunately the last time it was mentioned was a rather aggressive "devs are racist." and ended in a thread lock

Thank you for constructing legible points and the suggestions. They are for the most part in line with the guy who made the dave model, if that's any solace.

Eh everyone is a bit racist and sexist. Most of the Western world is pervaded with it because of how our cultures developed as a result of slavery and patriarchy. It is important to talk about it because of that I think.
It is of solace to me because it would be nice I think for people interested in the game to see going in. Also a default female identifying character would bring some comfort to me personally.
Thanks for taking time to have this conversation.

 

[aceface]

Yes I know you can make your own skins but that wasn't really the point. Dave is the face of starmade, they could have at leased used other skin models in the trailer. It is about representation. The skin packs are already out there actually it would just be a matter of listing them as options for your character by default, like on the menu or something.[DOUBLEPOST=1417741152,1417741008][/DOUBLEPOST]
Yes thats the problem, representation often dictates who approaches the game because it can make people feel welcome into the community. There is no reason a sandbox game should be targeted towards a specific gender or ethnicity, that is as I said before, silly.[DOUBLEPOST=1417741473][/DOUBLEPOST]
Yes I got the reference, but thanks.
And no I don't think there should be one default model at all. I think if anything there should be a drop down bar with multiple choices as defaults, maybe all of them could be gender or ethnicity bent versions of Dave to keep the theme (although this might prove problematic) You could also make them each references to other scifi movie characters. That would be fantastic because it draws attention to the myriad of characters that exist in scifi.
I never called your team phobic anything, I was merely pointing out what I consider an oversight. However if you think that representation doesn't matter in this case then I would call that a tad ignorant.

Why shouldn't it be targeted towards a specific gender??? Do me a favor and go browse the forums and check how many females:males you find.

The spaceship genre in general is male dominated. It takes some common bloody sense to know that. I do not see a problem with making a default player model who is male and being white. I am not even completely white myself - but I have no problem with that and I am not whining and complaining to be oppressed. Focusing in the trailer on the default guy who represents the game is just how its going to be.

On a side note:
I do not think that there should only be males in the trailer. I think there should be a few females. But since StarMade is male dominated there should be more males. The reason why there weren't any was simply because the npcs can only have one skin, so all the npcs in the trailer had to be Daves.

Also, AnnaShade017 made some really epic female skins, so if you browse her content you will find lots of females skins to exchange for the Dave.

 

[AtraUnam]

Gamer logic:
Only white skins? Your racist for only having white default skins.
Only black skins? Your racist for making the main character black.
Has options for both? Your racist for putting those in and clearly just trying to reach a quota.

 

[BDLS]

Going to come out and say it, I'm so sick of SJW whining on the internet.

Don't like it? Make your own skin. The tools are there.

Guess what? I'm fairly certain 95%+ of the Starmade userbase are straight (hueahuea) white males.

But whatever, you read about the inspiration for Dave. If it bothers you enough to not play, good riddance.

 

[Comr4de]

I'll go one step further and say that I've been following the #GamerGate movement for a while. Not so much because of the blatant injection of identity politics into a place that they clearly do not belong but also because I have a passionate hatred to gawker and watching their ad revenue stream eat shit is intensely satisfying.

 

[aceface]

Going to come out and say it, I'm so sick of SJW whining on the internet.

Don't like it? Make your own skin. The tools are there.

Guess what? I'm fairly certain 95%+ of the Starmade userbase are straight (hueahuea) white males.

But whatever, you read about the inspiration for Dave. If it bothers you enough to not play, good riddance.

THIS THIS THIS THIS
its a frikken game people

 

[Azurite]

Let's quit the SJW rhetoric and agenda-pushing and just play the damn game.

You want your character to be a different ethnicity, make the skin yourself or find one someone has made. (Hell, I'm wanting to get into skin making anyway)

Don't push the developers to do it in a game that provides a lush environment for creativity and inspiration.

Nothing left to say. This argument has presented itself before and was shot down for the same reasons, Cancer.

 

[Archer6621]

It's unbelievable that people actually worry about things like this when playing a game, let alone a game that is still in development and will eventually have these customization features added. You have to be really narrow-minded to take all of it so seriously, it's almost as if you're complaining for the sake of complaining just to cause trouble, because the team has pointed out multiple times that the game is eventually going to have features in place to make it look less apparent... So why cause the extra stir time after time?

Even more-so...

Most of the Western world is pervaded with it because of how our cultures developed as a result of slavery and patriarchy. It is important to talk about it because of that I think.

What the hell does that even have to do with the game? Believe it or not, but you may be the only one or just one of the very few worrying about that on this entire forum, the rest is too busy actually playing the game... Because that's what you'd normally do with a game, play it, instead of worrying about things that have nothing to do with said game at all.

You honestly think the devs made this white male main character called Dave just to piss non-white non-male people off and show them that white males are superior? Time to wake up? I'm not white myself, and man, I feel so insulted by this game about building ships, exploring space, harvesting resources, crafting and such... Why? Because its main character is a WHITE DUDE while I'm not!!! Lets complain!!!

In fact, it would be just as useful if I started a new thread now about how we should ban/restrict community members with fatal diseases/illnesses in their name, like the one used in yours, even if they aren't meant to be used like that (constellation), because it genuinely offends people that have lost family members because of said disease, and also because in certain countries people use such diseases as curses thus a name like that would be offensive to those people. Yes, that would be on about the same level as this subject here.

I'd feel sorry for the devs if they would even have to waste as much as a minute accommodating to your needs for now, because that time is better spent elsewhere, and that is my opinion on this entire matter. Sorry if I sound overly rude, I just lose my temper over ridiculous out-of-context subjects like this one.

 

[MossyStone48]

The game is no where near finished. The Dave model and skin are place holders. Always have been.
There is nothing to read into here. Never was.

1) In the game the playable character is referred to as "Player" and ingame your chosen name appears.
2)The texture's appearance can be summed up simply: pale, short haired and humanoid.
3) If the name is an issue let me remind you of the deceptive nature of names.
Sam = Samuel or Samantha
Joe (Jo) = Joseph or Josefina
Harry = Harold or Harriet

From here we can say there is a possibility that:

Dave = David or Davitte
Which happen to sound nearly identical when said aloud making the proper name even more neutral than Sam, Joe OR Harry. And by transitive property the short version of the name is equally neutral.

So, Davitte wears her hair short and spends a lot of time on ships. Meaning she goes without the benefit of an atmosphere and sunlight for long periods of time. She might become rather upset if you called her a pale boy. She's a starmate. You don't like it? She'll show you the way to the air lock.

 

[aceface]

It's unbelievable that people actually worry about things like this when playing a game, let alone a game that is still in development and will eventually have these customization features added.

Exactly

 

[Mariux]

*sigh*
It was only a matter of time :/

 

[WarmasterRaptor]

Such a non-issue...

For all we know, it can be a black skinned albino flat-chest girl in a spacesuit that likes the surname Dave.
She also happens to be a vegetarian and is very open and liberated sexually.

Are all the criteria filled?

Sorry if this post has to be Modded

 

[Viridis00]

For all we know, it can be a black skinned albino flat-chest girl in a spacesuit

mfw Dave was Kuro from Prisma Illya all along. It all makes sense now.

 

[Magrim]

I think most people are intelligent enough to be objective, and the ones that let their personal feelings cloud their judgment on this issue are misguided.

Also, people really need to stop believing unequivocally what the mainstream media has to say about the current state of racism, and question the motives behind such blatant race baiting

 

[thakyZ]

Not not to make this into a race issue...
But people and that means everyone on earth uses the words, racist/ism and sexist/ism, to much.

Now what Comr4de says that this is a stupid ordeal because this game is just in alpha.
Yes that is true because I doubt you (cancer313) knew that Omni was making different race types, etc. and if you did then you wouldn't have complained. So yes I agree that game devs should make other races and maybe genders. But come on you should at least wait till the game gets out of alpha so that you can complain about it or better yet, look into it some more...

 

[Matt_Bradock]

This is it for me. Sorry, cancer313 but I kinda find it hard to believe your name is a coincidence. And I'm not talking about being related to your birthsign. Yes, this might be personal.

Let me make one thing clear: I'm not American. I'm not even Western European. I'm from Hungary, Eastern Europe, so not from your favorite Arabic and Asian "opressive" countries either.

By the logic you use, I could be complaining how this game being available in English language discriminates everyone who aren't from English speaking territories. I do not do that, because I'm more reasonable than that, and because I accept, that the majority of games target the American, British, and Canadian market, or assume that most gamers in the first and second world speak English on a reasonable level to be able to play. Just like I do.

However, I get the strong feeling you have an agenda to push here. People do not come to a game's site like this without a reason. I have to tell I have a strong dislike for being "politically correct", because that created an entire generation that loves to play the victim and blame the majority for every single problem they have. I say this, as a psychology major.

Furthermore, with the computer skills of a 5th grader, you should be fully capable of creating your very own skin, in even higher definition than the default. The fact you're old enough to understand such elaborate concepts as racial representation, discrimination and elitism, suggests you could also be capable of learning how to use basic Paint and create a skin for yourself to enjoy, or use the skin generator by Master1398 without much effort.

No one complained when you had to play a black guy in GTA San Andreas, and that was a fully released game. Gamers couldn't give a damn about genre or race. In fact, some sexist pervert gamer guys would play a female in an RPG like Skyrim, because "It's more entertaining to stare at a girl's behind for hours than a guy's" - even though Skyrim was mainly in first person. The same gamers modded the game so hard to change the actually modest female character and clothing/armor models to really skimpy, "nerd's wet dream" kinda models. Do you hear a word about it? No.

Are you a gamer, at all? If you were, you weren't looking for race and gender representation in a game. You'd PLAY it instead.

 

[aceface]

This is it for me. Sorry, cancer313 but I kinda find it hard to believe your name is a coincidence. And I'm not talking about being related to your birthsign. Yes, this might be personal.

Let me make one thing clear: I'm not American. I'm not even Western European. I'm from Hungary, Eastern Europe, so not from your favorite Arabic and Asian "opressive" countries either.

By the logic you use, I could be complaining how this game being available in English language discriminates everyone who aren't from English speaking territories. I do not do that, because I'm more reasonable than that, and because I accept, that the majority of games target the American, British, and Canadian market, or assume that most gamers in the first and second world speak English on a reasonable level to be able to play. Just like I do.

However, I get the strong feeling you have an agenda to push here. People do not come to a game's site like this without a reason. I have to tell I have a strong dislike for being "politically correct", because that created an entire generation that loves to play the victim and blame the majority for every single problem they have. I say this, as a psychology major.

Furthermore, with the computer skills of a 5th grader, you should be fully capable of creating your very own skin, in even higher definition than the default. The fact you're old enough to understand such elaborate concepts as racial representation, discrimination and elitism, suggests you could also be capable of learning how to use basic Paint and create a skin for yourself to enjoy, or use the skin generator by Master1398 without much effort.

No one complained when you had to play a black guy in GTA San Andreas, and that was a fully released game. Gamers couldn't give a damn about genre or race. In fact, some sexist pervert gamer guys would play a female in an RPG like Skyrim, because "It's more entertaining to stare at a girl's behind for hours than a guy's" - even though Skyrim was mainly in first person. The same gamers modded the game so hard to change the actually modest female character and clothing/armor models to really skimpy, "nerd's wet dream" kinda models. Do you hear a word about it? No.

Are you a gamer, at all? If you were, you weren't looking for race and gender representation in a game. You'd PLAY it instead.

well said matt