Can we scrap enhancers already?

[Ithirahad]

How about scrapping this entire ridiculous docking system and add docking clamps? The current docking style can be used for ship-building spacedocks, maybe, but for actually docking a ship to a station, you shouldn't be limited by boxdims. If you have a U-shaped ship that you want to connect to a station's docking "tubeway" by a hatch/port on the front of the exact center, you should be able to do that as long as you can get the clamp blocks to make physical contact.

 

[z1967]

Err, those of you who hate the look of them, you know that they don't need to be attached to the actual docking port right? You can place them elsewhere and just "c" and "v" them together. Saves me room and hassle since I can usually fit submerge them in some power tanks or something. Makes reconnecting difficult but hey, anything for aesthetics.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Err, those of you who hate the look of them, you know that they don't need to be attached to the actual docking port right? You can place them elsewhere and just "c" and "v" them together. Saves me room and hassle since I can usually fit submerge them in some power tanks or something. Makes reconnecting difficult but hey, anything for aesthetics.

As long as you do not have enhancers from other docks next to each other you can shift+V and connect an entire set of docking enhancers to the docking module all at once.

 

[Ithirahad]

Err, those of you who hate the look of them, you know that they don't need to be attached to the actual docking port right? You can place them elsewhere and just "c" and "v" them together. Saves me room and hassle since I can usually fit submerge them in some power tanks or something. Makes reconnecting difficult but hey, anything for aesthetics.

I learned that recently. Still doesn't change the fact that docking as we know it is extremely clumsy.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

It would be easier if these dock blocks (dock modules and enhancers in 1) when placed would work normally as dock modules, but once connected to another block would loose their ability to dock, instead work as an enhancer. Except for the one "uber" block to which rest is connected and works as the exact docking module.

Personally i don't have a need to unite dock modules and enhancer into one block, i'm more indifferent to this.


Ithirahad

As written somewhere above, docking based only on one/two blocks is imbalanced and may lead to abuse of this system. There may be solutions for that like possibility of making station (with docked entities) invulnerable only after some time, etc., but still i don't think this system would be satisfying.

I know that in the real world docking doesn't require enhancers, but on the other hand irl we don't dock such big ships and keep them static.

My favorite solution is docking based on mass. But if there was a way... to join these ideas... hmmm...




(there was supposed to be an image here but it seems i can't image)



So there is my post about docking the turrets:
http://starmadedock.net/threads/docking-needs-a-revamp.309/#post-2564

Of course i think it's great and all and You should read it and like it and love it, but if You don't want to read it then i'll explain shortly:

• turrets divided on two parts: body and turret
• body is fixed to its place and is built directly above the turret module, so blocks from turret and from ship are on the same height
• not necessary but enthusiastically seeing would be docking based on mass
• turret still can shoot at different directions, because it'll have a rotor between body and the turret allowing it to turn (it doesn't matter right here)

So my idea is to connect my suggestion to suggestion by Ithirahad about making docking clamps which allow docking when two docking modules, from ship and the ship/station are touching/connecting/something like this.



Starting from the basics how exactly i vision this?

Firstly we need a docking module on the station. Probably connected to enhancers, because our ships are mighty and massive, so we won't be satisfied by 7x7x7 docking space. Or with some mass limit, depending if we talk about solution with mass-based docking.

Anyway, we have our enhanced dock module, so now we also need a docking module on our ship. It doesn't need any enhancers, it's just a block with which we can indicate where we want our ship to connect with stations docking module and what orientation would our ship have.

And as we are on the topic of orientation, i thought it would be the easiest if the docking module block had a total of 24 different orientations. Why?
Well, firstly we want to know to which side of the docking module we want to dock our ship (just as it is now), so it makes 6 different orientations.

But then, to have even more customization, we should be able to choose which direction specifically our ship would be headed. It may be done with adding 4 more options to each side of the block (6x4=24). I imagine this as a red side (as it is now) to determine which side of block we want to dock and an arrow on this red side, pointing one of the four directions.

Both docking modules on station and the ship would have these red sides and an arrow and as we would dock, the game would firstly connect docking modules with their red sides, and then orientate ship, so the arrows on both of these modules would point the same way.

The question is: is it possible?

Yep, we already have 24 orientations, i.e. of corner block
Or i might be wrong

I hope i've explained it clear enough, if not i can make a drawing in paint and paste it here (can't do right now, because my mouse is broken).​

So we have docking modules on our station and ship and we know which way our ship would be orientated after docking. Is it everything? Nah, now it's the best part!


Why have i mentioned my previous suggestion? Because it has something i need here - fixed position of docked entity and blocks not having space between ship and turret.
It's simple, after we dock and our ship got orientated, the dock modules are as close to eachother as they were built like this. There would be no visible sign, where the ship ends and where the station begins.


Why is it fun?

Because then we could dock a ship, leave the core and throughout the corridors walk straight into our station! Isn't it awesome? No more unnecessary space walking, just going through the airlocks, and we are at home.



I know it doesn't overhaul docking system, but it doesn't need this. Docking is mostly about leaving our ships in fixed place, so they won't fly away and we already got this. My suggestion is to:

1. make it more fun
2. make it more realistic
3. make mass-based docking happen

 

[Ithirahad]

Or, a ship or turret could only be put under faction homebase protection if it's docked to a space station with an equal or higher mass than it. That way, nobody could dock their titan (or megaturret) to a tiny little space capsule of a station and make it invulnerable (or I guess nigh-invulnerable, with the new Faction Points system). Much simpler, isn't it?

 

[ltmauve]

So just that the mass of the docked vessel has to be less than whatever it's trying to dock to?
It seems pretty simple, except that it makes mounting uberturrets easier.

 

[NeonSturm]

But if we don't need a primary orientation at all, just cover all the not-wanted sides, we could easier rotate for the orientation of your docked ship.

6 = orientations at which the other ship docks
6 = orientations of the docked ship
4 = rotation of the docked ship around it's z-axis
144 = 6*6*4

 

[Ithirahad]

So just that the mass of the docked vessel has to be less than whatever it's trying to dock to?
It seems pretty simple, except that it makes mounting uberturrets easier.

Pretty much. If you aren't worried about looks, mounting uberturrets is already really easy, though, so that's not even a concern IMO... (Also, Turret Docking Modules would be replaced with Turret Docking Hinge Clamps or Turret Aiming Motors)

 

[ltmauve]

Well, right now uberturrets can get knocked off if you hit the enhancers. With just needing a single block you either need to disable the uberturret or hit that one block on the ship. Also not a fan of ideas that require splitting up turrets, simply because then you have a useless base plate that you need to take care of

 

[Ithirahad]

Well, right now uberturrets can get knocked off if you hit the enhancers. With just needing a single block you either need to disable the uberturret or hit that one block on the ship. Also not a fan of ideas that require splitting up turrets, simply because then you have a useless base plate that you need to take care of

1, I edited the splitting-up-turrets idea out, and 2, that was just an idea for something cool you could do with my system; having a double-stacked-turret wouldn't actually be necessary.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

I find my biggest issue with the current docking system isn't that I need a bunch of blocks in silly L shapes hidden somewhere to get the right size. Instead, my problem is that the sizes start at a minimum that's a cube (who builds cubes for docked ships?) and there's no asymmetric options.
The minimum size issue means that internal docking volumes make smaller ships look hideous due to having a giant cube in one part. I often just want to dock a small escape shuttle.
Due to symmetrical docking volumes, if my ship or turret (much more common on turrets) doesn't have a centered core, most of the docking volume is completely useless.
The fact that docking just stops working if anything takes up part of that volume regardless of if the docked ship can fit with that thing in the volume compounds the silliness problem and makes for a lot of boring flat surfaces in design.

 

[ltmauve]

Standard docking can already give us a variable y-offset, which means that it is probably possible to get variable z- and x- offsets of the docking positions.

 

[Unnamed25]

Or what about placing dock enchancers on some sort of computer thing you can enter to program the docks?
There would still be enchancers to buy but they wouldn't take up any space.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

Or what about placing dock enchancers on some sort of computer thing you can enter to program the docks?
There would still be enchancers to buy but they wouldn't take up any space.

This would be great because it means no more ridiculous L shapes to build around...but there's a better way: no computer. Enhancers just increase the potential size and the actual docking zone size...is determined by what you dock! This would also solve the minimum zone size issue...
Ideally as well, the shape wouldn't be strictly rectangular; you'd just need the space clear where a docked ship needs it clear, but this could incur performance impacts.

 

[Unnamed25]

This would be great because it means no more ridiculous L shapes to build around...but there's a better way: no computer. Enhancers just increase the potential size and the actual docking zone size...is determined by what you dock! This would also solve the minimum zone size issue...
Ideally as well, the shape wouldn't be strictly rectangular; you'd just need the space clear where a docked ship needs it clear, but this could incur performance impacts.

Nice idea, that way 10x10x10 docking enchancer cubes would be more efficient!

 

[Cablestinks]

Nice idea, that way 10x10x10 docking enchancer cubes would be more efficient!

This would be great because it means no more ridiculous L shapes to build around...but there's a better way: no computer. Enhancers just increase the potential size and the actual docking zone size...is determined by what you dock! This would also solve the minimum zone size issue...
Ideally as well, the shape wouldn't be strictly rectangular; you'd just need the space clear where a docked ship needs it clear, but this could incur performance impacts.

I agree, just have one block, the dock block put one on the ship where ever you want to dock the ship, and one on the station, simple no DE fuss. And for those who cry about size limits and not docking big things on to small ones,.. i do that already, i just have DE everywhere. And since its on my Faction base it can't be destroyed.

 

[NeonSturm]

Pretty much. If you aren't worried about looks, mounting uberturrets is already really easy, though, so that's not even a concern IMO... (Also, Turret Docking Modules would be replaced with Turret Docking Hinge Clamps or Turret Aiming Motors)

I have a possible solution to this.
Disable ability to dock turrets with more than 1/3 or 1/6 ship|station mass.
Count mass of turrets and docket ships to be in total not heavier than the ship|station itself. optionally undock a turret which weight is closest to 1/6 station/ship mass.

 

[ltmauve]

I have a possible solution to this.
Disable ability to dock turrets with more than 1/3 or 1/6 ship|station mass.
Count mass of turrets and docket ships to be in total not heavier than the ship|station itself. optionally undock a turret which weight is closest to 1/6 station/ship mass.

Hard limits are bad Imagine adding a block to your turret and then boom randomly undocks.. Anyway, the devs have talked about an energy cost for turning the turrets. I'd imagine that having the cost increase with the proportion would balance that. If I want a fighter to have a single turret the size of it, that would be good. cost = turretmass ^2 / shipmass.

 

[NeonSturm]

I like it, but already found a flaw in your formula evenly bad compared to the flaw you found in my post

Turrets should not waste energy if they are not stocked with enough energy to have time to actually get a shot of against their target.

Either:

• turnSpeed = turnSpeed * powerLevel?
• powerCost = turret.mass * turnSpeed^(1 + turnSpeed/maxTurnSpeed)

Or:

• Ship's excess power is transferred to turrets. Distribution 50% (of excess) equally, 50% relative to a turret's mass compared to total turret mass?
• Turrets only try to turn to their target, if they have enough power to actually track it for the next 3 seconds (+3 seconds for beams) and to activate their weapon once.