Dev build crafting overhaul discussion

[FunnyBunny14]

Please take the time to read this.
Updated for the new function of the refinery.


So everyone knows it's going to change, and I know how!

I suppose I need to start with what's good. So, lets start with what's good!
Great news! The crafting system no longer has huge recipes. Why? Because it gets divided into factory tiers: basic, standard and advanced. Each factory crafts different things, the advanced crafts the most advanced items. The recipes consist of no more than 3 steps as for everything but hull: the maximum I found for (everything but hull) is from refinery to micro assembler to factory. Simple, right?
Some names have also changed, and what previously was used a lot now is only used as decorative block (charged crystal circuit, etc.).

What's not so good:
The recipes seem way too short. There is only a challenge in making a production line for hull. All the other blocks, even blocks like bobby ai and the build block, only have short recipes. Now there is no real point in making factories anymore.
I'd like to see recipes have at least one more step, but preferably two (so five in total, resulting in: refinery -> assembler -> factory 1 -> factory 2 -> factory 3). Any more would just be too long. But I would like to have to make factories for the advanced blocks with neat assembly lines.

I propose that:

• The basic only has 2 steps max, so: refiney -> factory 1
• The standard has 3 steps max, so: refinery -> factory 1 -> factory 2
• The advanced has 4 steps max, so: refinery -> factory 1 -> factory 2 -> factory 3
• The additional steps require no more than 1 or 2 (preferably 1) item(s) with a very low amount of steps, only 1 or 2 (1 if direct from the refinery, 2 if it comes from refinery -> basic factory).
• Most blocks in the standard and advanced factory have the maximum amount of steps, some very basic items could of course have a lower amount of steps.

Factory 1 is the basic factory, 2 the standard and 3 the advanced.
It is worth noting that all the above listed trees can have their amount of steps increased by 1 if the player decides to use the micro assembler.

Oh, I almost forgot. @Calbiri you currently can't craft the standard and advanced factories. Is that intentional or did you forget or not have time to add them? It would be nice if you could get every block in the game through crafting, including the factories.

 

[OdraNoel]

hey, just letting people know that calbiri will look into the linked cannons (salvage cannons linked at a 1:1 ratio with regular cannons for rapid fire effect) and will most probably nerf it. so when judging recipies and stuff, jsut assume you wont have access to linked cannon and make your assumptions from there. or that linking them wont make them so ultra powerful.

ill probably start a new universe for this as that would be the best way. i recommend you guys do the same to help get a fresh perspective on the new recipes. just dont forget to back up your old worlds! and remember you will probably have to start a new game anyway once the universe update is out. so get familiar with how to export and import sectors so you dont freak out once the update hits [DOUBLEPOST=1412743649,1412742953][/DOUBLEPOST]ok one little fun tid bit i just found, if you mine stuff in astronaut mode sometimes you get a little message saying you got lucky and found an extra resource! :p ill check out if this happens with salvage cannons too![DOUBLEPOST=1412744040][/DOUBLEPOST]ya, it only happens when mining in astronaut mode. salvage cannons dont yield the lucky bonus. thats cool, helps give you a bit more of an edge when you don't have access to your ship. its these little things that make all the difference for me! :D


Edit 1: ok so it seems the new recipe for the build block is 50 bastyne and 50 fertikeen. i really feel it should be much more expensive. the build block along with a few key others should be the hardest blocks in the game to acquire. build blocks due to their powerful nature should be valued as a solid diamond block, wrapped in gold, laminated with platinum, and doused with awesome.

 

[Yetimania]

hey, just letting people know that calbiri will look into the linked cannons and will most probably nerf it. so when judging recipies and stuff, jsut assume you wont have access to linked cannon and make your assumptions from there. or that linking them wont make them so ultra powerful.

What do you mean by linked cannons in this context? Is that salvage beams linked to cannons?

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

This is the 4th time that the crafting system has been overhauled since I've started playing

I just don't care anymore (as long as it doesn't require hours of salvaging to get a handful of hull)

 

[OdraNoel]

What do you mean by linked cannons in this context? Is that salvage beams linked to cannons?

yes, salvage cannons linked to regular cannons (for rapid fire) at a 1:1 ratio produce extremely powerful and energy efficient salvage cannons. to the point where it really breaks the mining mechanics of the game. you get rich in a few simple hours. i edited my post to make it clearer, sorry about that.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

My biggest problem with this new system is, like I said in my first post, that only hull has got a long crafting tree. I fell that the more advanced a block js the longer the tree should be, but it shouldn't require more than 3 factories.

 

[OdraNoel]

ok another observation, is it just me or did colored glass get turned/renamed into a new a Armour type!? crazy! im so guna make a crystal ship! :D

edit: yes i agree, many things are now made from simple raw resources.

Edit 2: another thing to mention for anyone wondering. this seems to be a complete rewrite of the previous recipes. so nothing about the old system was preserved. like for example previously it was the black and white resources you needed to make shields. now its purple resources and so on.

 

[Mariux]

I think that rather than making more advanced blocks more complex to produce, make it so that it's hard to make blocks that you only need in small amounts, like weapon computers, bobby AI, faction modules and such so that the process won't get tedious. Advanced hulls would require more recources, but be relatively simple to make, because they most likely are not that complex blocks and probably contain no or very little machinery, they're basically just solid blocks of refined ore.

 

[OdraNoel]

I think that rather than making more advanced blocks more complex to produce, make it so that it's hard to make blocks that you only need in small amounts, like weapon computers, bobby AI, faction modules and such so that the process won't get tedious. Advanced hulls would require more recources, but be relatively simple to make, because they most likely are not that complex blocks and probably contain no or very little machinery, they're basically just solid blocks of refined ore.

youll be happy to hear that computers for the various systems are indeed quite expensive. (for example a cannon computer is 500 hital capsuls and 1,000(!) crystal circuits!)

also of note is the new lowest tier of hulls. they are quite easy to craft at just one mesh and crystal each. this is great news as now its easier to acquire proper building materials. as much as i love my space station i made in my lets play (clarkes vision) iv been kind of bothered by the fact its made of rocks rather then proper metal and hull, lol. but at least its pretty ^^[DOUBLEPOST=1412754687,1412753590][/DOUBLEPOST]observation: power blocks cost 20 metal meshes. it feels awkward that they dont require some sort of power source. as is its just a bunch of metal getting turned into a power generating cube.[DOUBLEPOST=1412755060][/DOUBLEPOST]Observation: ingots and crystals (compressed forms of the colored resources, ingots being compressed ores, and crystals being compressed crystal shards) don't have any recipes. so its not possible to craft them at the moment, and they are needed in other crafting recipes (which is nice to see)

 

[FunnyBunny14]

I wasn't saying to make them more complicated, just make them have slightly longer recipes.

Examples for basic, standard and advanced factories:
Basic: needed: 5 crystal circuits + 20 metal mesh
Gives: 1 power reactor module
Standard: needed: 1 power reactor module + 50 of a specific ore
Gives: A weapons computer
Advanced: needed: 1 specific weapons computer + a specific crystal block
Gives: 1 effect computer

What I'm trying to say is that I would like to see recipes in which you need 1, and only 1, block/item from the previous factory tier to make a new block.

By the standard it was the power reactor module in my example, and by the advanced it was the computer that you got. I don't want the additional blocks to have a long recipe at all, maximum five steps (so refinery -> assembler or refinery -> factory). That way they don't get complicated but they just require longer assembly lines the further on you go in the tiers (I see basic as tier 1, standard as tier 2 and advanced as tier 3).

I hope that it now is clearer what I meant.

 

[Mariux]

youll be happy to hear that computers for the various systems are indeed quite expensive. (for example a cannon computer is 500 hital capsuls and 1,000(!) crystals!)

also of note is the new lowest tier of hulls. they are quite easy to craft at just one mesh and crystal each. this is great news as now its easier to acquire proper building materials. as much as i love my space station i made in my lets play (clarkes vision) iv been kind of bothered by the fact its made of rocks rather then proper metal and hull, lol. but at least its pretty ^^[DOUBLEPOST=1412754687,1412753590][/DOUBLEPOST]observation: power blocks cost 20 metal meshes. it feels awkward that they dont require some sort of power source. as is its just a bunch of metal getting turned into a power generating cube.[DOUBLEPOST=1412755060][/DOUBLEPOST]Observation: ingots and crystals (compressed forms of the colored resources, ingots being compressed ores, and crystals being compressed crystal shards) don't have any recipes. so its not possible to craft them at the moment, and they are needed in other crafting recipes (which is nice to see)

Maybe not... THAT hard...

 

[FunnyBunny14]

10 capsules is one ore/crystal, so for the cannon computer you'll need 5 hital ore and 100 crystal shards.

 

[OdraNoel]

sorry funny but thats wrong. its 50 hital ore to get 500 capsules, and 1,200(!) crystal shards to get the 1,000 crystal circuits! (ten capsules per shard, and 12 capsules required per crystal circuit.) in short, computers are VERY expensive.

fixed my other post as it wasnt too clear and reads as if i meant crystal capsules rather then circuits. sorry about that.[DOUBLEPOST=1412768047,1412767309][/DOUBLEPOST]and on that note, weapons systems them selves are also fairly expensive, the cannon barrles are 50 hital capsules and 100 crystal circuits.weapons seem to be 1/10th the cost of their corresponding computer controllers.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Wait, I think that may be a typo. All the computers I saw never came above 1000 capsules (100 ore/crystal shards)total. It should be more like 12.

 

[OdraNoel]

the effect computers are cheaper then the weapons computers. all the weapons computers i saw were 500 capsules of a specific ore and 1,000 generic crystal circuits, and the corresponding weapon module blocks are 50 capsules of the same matireal for teh computer and 100 crystal circuits. (exactly one tenth the cost of the computer.

the effect computers are 250 capsules of ore and 500 capsules of the same color shard. and their correstponding module blocks are also one tenth the cost of the computers (25 ore capsules and 50 of the same color crystal)

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Hmm, I don't think they realize just how expensive a circuit actually is. They should really use at least a tenth of the current prices.

 

[OdraNoel]

to be honest im a bit split on this whole thing. i thought they were going to rebalance the prices of the old recipes, not completely redo them from scratch. as were more or less in the same situation as before, (some things being too expensive while others are too cheap) the problem wasn't so much the recipes them selves, but the required amount of resources for each recipe.

however i have to admit, i rather like computers being so expensive. i know, im a masochist...i cant help it! but it makes them feel that much valuable, as they should be. i still think the build block should be one of if not the MOST expensive block in the game.[DOUBLEPOST=1412770836,1412770486][/DOUBLEPOST]also is it just me and funny checking this stuff out? wheres everyone else?

 

[timethatswasted]

It's probably best to make the crafting system by default fairly simple (like the rest of the game). People have short attention spans, and you need to get them hooked. Once they have mastered the default easy settings they can find a server that is more interesting and complicated.

Server owners can easily modify the crafting system using the block editor or a simple txt editor.

I made a post several months ago talking about my personal crafting setup where I essentially changed the whole system in about an hour. Schema has done such a wonderful job making this system easy and customizable.

Off subject but what I would really like to see come back is the ability to make "custom factories" like we had in the days of the the Schemadyne Advance and Partical press. So in the same way you have a factory that only makes capsuals you could make a factory that is only allowed to make computers.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Server owners can easily modify the crafting system using the block editor or a simple txt editor.

I made a post several months ago talking about my personal crafting setup where I essentially changed the whole system in about an hour. Schema has done such a wonderful job making this system easy and customizable.

Have you got any idea how many blocks you'd have to change the recipes for with this newest crafting system? A very, very, very large amount. It is almost impossible to change all of them after each update.
Have you even tried the new dev build @timethatswasted ?

Off subject but what I would really like to see come back is the ability to make "custom factories" like we had in the days of the the Schemadyne Advance and Partical press. So in the same way you have a factory that only makes capsuals you could make a factory that is only allowed to make computers.

It is already kind of like that. Factories only can make one at a time.

It's probably best to make the crafting system by default fairly simple (like the rest of the game). People have short attention spans, and you need to get them hooked. Once they have mastered the default easy settings they can find a server that is more interesting and complicated.

Have you read my suggestion? oh well, here it is again:

I wasn't saying to make them more complicated, just make them have slightly longer recipes.

Examples for basic, standard and advanced factories:
Basic: needed: 5 crystal circuits + 20 metal mesh
Gives: 1 power reactor module
Standard: needed: 1 power reactor module + 50 of a specific ore
Gives: A weapons computer
Advanced: needed: 1 specific weapons computer + a specific crystal block
Gives: 1 effect computer

What I'm trying to say is that I would like to see recipes in which you need 1, and only 1, block/item from the previous factory tier to make a new block.

By the standard it was the power reactor module in my example, and by the advanced it was the computer that you got. I don't want the additional blocks to have a long recipe at all, maximum five steps (so refinery -> assembler or refinery -> factory). That way they don't get complicated but they just require longer assembly lines the further on you go in the tiers (I see basic as tier 1, standard as tier 2 and advanced as tier 3).

I hope that it now is clearer what I meant.

General:
They should just make them require less resources and make the recipes a little bit longer.
Oh, and @OdraNoel , there were a couple of issues with the crafting system. You already said that the prices were too high, but for some blocks the recipes were just a mess, like for the build block, bobby ai, and even the docking modules and a couple of other blocks.

 

[timethatswasted]

Have you got any idea how many blocks you'd have to change the recipes for with this newest crafting system? A very, very, very large amount. It is almost impossible to change all of them after each update.
Have you even tried the new dev build @timethatswasted ?

It is already kind of like that. Factories only can make one at a time.

Have you read my suggestion? oh well, here it is again:


General:
They should just make them require less resources and make the recipes a little bit longer.
Oh, and @OdraNoel , there were a couple of issues with the crafting system. You already said that the prices were too high, but for some blocks the recipes were just a mess, like for the build block, bobby ai, and even the docking modules and a couple of other blocks.

I'm really not sure why you are being so confrontational Bunny. I didn't disagree with you and in fact reaffirmed your point that it should be simple and added in my thoughts on why.

The current crafting system is a re-working/re-imagining of starmades original crafting system from about 2 years ago, but much easier to work with.

I'm very familiar with the DEV builds, block config and block behavior. A good TXT editor can modify huge portions of the config files at once. As I said, I've completely re-worked the crafting system on my own in about an hour. You only really need to modify the top and bottom of the tree, the way it's set up, the middle fills itself out.

The only time you need to re-do the entire config is when a line has been added or removed from each block. And even so, a good txt editor lets you deal with that in a matter of minuets.

When I say I want a custom factory I want to be actually be able to set one up via the block config.

That way I can have a factory that only admins can spawn and when you put a specific item in it you get a specific thing. That way I could create a "reward box" where people find item X and take it to spawn, put it in the box and it spits out a pre-determined reward.