How Should a Ship be Killed?

[Spartan-228]

I ask this question because it seams there are many different ideas on this subject.
There are technically 4 types of kills.
Catastrophic kill, Mission kill, Mobility kill, and Firepower kill.
And I believe all of these aspects should be taken into account.
So How about we get rid of the diamond that shows where the ship core is and instead have it just mark the ship. This way you don't know were the core is but you can still track the ship, unless it is using jamming.
I really liked the idea of ship components exploding if you destroy a percentage of those blocks. This would tie into things like mission kill, mobility kill, and firepower kill.
Also how about implementing an atmosphere. So in order to kill the crew you just have to punch holes in the crew section. Once all the oxygen leeks out the crew suffocates. Unless the hull breaches are fixed before that happens. This would be a mission kill.

 

[NeonSturm]

Form Catastrophic kill, Mission kill, Mobility kill, and Firepower kill

Is the 1st an accident? Ramming an asteroid, ...?
2nd I would have assumed this is a saboteur or some sneaky attack, not punching a lot of holes into a ship (what I would have assumed to be the 4th)
3rd is easy to understand.​

Did you not thought about pilots in space suits or self-repairing nanite armor?
Or armor filled with liquids which get solid at low pressure?
This is how I assume the new hp system to work in sci-fi.

 

[Criss]

My preferred method relies on what would be a new health system for the ship. The devs said that hull/blocks were going to be taken into account later down the line. Basically I figure things like regular hull and hardened hull would be added up to give us some sort of armor health. Of course on the inside you have systems, which would be modules, thrusters, power, etc. As you break down the armor, therefore killing the armor rating of the ship, the damage done to systems increases. Eventually there is a point where say 30% of the armor remains, you can then do full damage to systems. Once a percentage of systems is taken out, then the ship overheats and kills you as it normally would. I like the idea of rendering a ship immobile though, or cutting off power by destroying a number of those related systems. The full health for them would be recorded when you save the ships schematic. Saving the schematic would be impossible during or after combat for a certain amount of time to remove that exploitation.

 

[Valiant70]

AAAAAH!!! Brilliant! If certain systems would explode after a percentage of that type of block is blown off, it could cause a chain reaction blowing the whole ship apart. It would be far more realistic than the current system (although still not very realistic, just more convincing).

1. 50% of power tanks get blasted off and the rest explode
2. Power generators are damaged by the tank explosion and also explode.
3. Shields and thrusters which have some power grids running through them are heavily damaged and also wind up exploding.
4. The ship's pretty much gone.

Another possibility in this scenario is that the explosions would stop after the power grids if damage to other systems is not sufficient to blow them up. That would leave a derelict ship dead in the water and ripe for salvage, capture, or disintegration.

 

[Spartan-228]

Form Catastrophic kill, Mission kill, Mobility kill, and Firepower kill

Is the 1st an accident? Ramming an asteroid, ...?
2nd I would have assumed this is a saboteur or some sneaky attack, not punching a lot of holes into a ship (what I would have assumed to be the 4th)
3rd is easy to understand.​

Catastrophic kill is the ship being damaged beyond use or repair. Mission kill is when the ship is rendered incapable of participating in the fight. A Mobility kill is when the ship is unable to move or maneuver. And a Firepower kill is when the ships weapons are destroyed or disabled.

 

[Criss]

AAAAAH!!! Brilliant! If certain systems would explode after a percentage of that type of block is blown off, it could cause a chain reaction blowing the whole ship apart. It would be far more realistic than the current system (although still not very realistic, just more convincing).

1. 50% of power tanks get blasted off and the rest explode
2. Power generators are damaged by the tank explosion and also explode.
3. Shields and thrusters which have some power grids running through them are heavily damaged and also wind up exploding.
4. The ship's pretty much gone.

Another possibility in this scenario is that the explosions would stop after the power grids if damage to other systems is not sufficient to blow them up. That would leave a derelict ship dead in the water and ripe for salvage, capture, or disintegration.

That would be neat. Not sure who you were responding to though. I think that should be a bit more random than certain though. Like there's a chance things will blow up, but not all the time.

Also, neon, not sure if you gave me the optimistic rating because its a good idea of a dumb one. Wish we just had the disagree still.

 

[NeonSturm]

I think that should be a bit more random than certain though.

It is.
Humans fail to think about a weak design spot randomly.
Network randomly lags
With <30 fps it is -with human decisions- almost random if you react 0.1 seconds earlier or later.

We really don't need more randoom

Also, neon, not sure if you gave me the optimistic rating because its a good idea of a dumb one. Wish we just had the disagree still.

Which optimistic? Must be another thread...

 

[Reilly Reese]

Currently you can in fact disable ship components. The only thing this covers is that the diamond is exactly on the core (Ought to be placed via mass distribution) and exploding systems. Before we get exploding systems we need real explosions. Preferably something big enough and bright enough to cover the block chunk updating due to the big rocket you just shot into it.

 

[WaffulMann]

Currently you can in fact disable ship components. The only thing this covers is that the diamond is exactly on the core (Ought to be placed via mass distribution) and exploding systems. Before we get exploding systems we need real explosions. Preferably something big enough and bright enough to cover the block chunk updating due to the big rocket you just shot into it.

Yesplz
At the very least increase current explosions by 500% to 1000% for the next few builds while the devs work on new effects. Maybe they can even crowd source effects as I see quite a few talented people, although I have no idea how good any of them are at 3d effects / rendering

 

[NeonSturm]

I see quite a few talented people, although I have no idea how good any of them are at 3d effects / rendering

You make 2D.
A 2D sprite one dynamic light emitter (like a plex-beacon) and everything else is up to the game to handle it.

You only need to edit the vertex and fragment shaders... there should be an official link to the tutorial

 

[lupoCani]

Primarily by system damage, I think. Had your engines sliced in half? They might still have 85% of their mass, but don't expect to be moving around much. Samge goes for generators, guns, shield, or any other system- you only have to score a good couple of hits to take it out, not wipe the wast majority of it's mass from the face of the universe. With a mechanic like that taking down ships should be moderately easy, and my guess is it would feel a lot more natural than a cap on how much damage your ship as a whole can take before it spontaneously breaks apart.

 

[therimmer96]

depends on the situation, but I prefer to do it in 2 stages. First of all, core drill. use punch through rapid AMC's to drill the core and kill the pilot. then fire nukes and spray the ship with the AMC to make sure that nothing is left to salvage or use.

 

[lupoCani]

depends on the situation, but I prefer to do it in 2 stages. First of all, core drill. use punch through rapid AMC's to drill the core and kill the pilot. then fire nukes and spray the ship with the AMC to make sure that nothing is left to salvage or use.

It sounds like you're describing what a functional ship destruction mechanic is, not what it should be. It seems like this thread is discussing game mechanics, not tips for use in the game's current state.

 

[therimmer96]

It sounds like you're describing what a functional ship destruction mechanic is, not what it should be. It seems like this thread is discussing game mechanics, not tips for use in the game's current state.

derp, sorry :/

 

[therimmer96]

In my opinion, there should be controllers/computers for everything, and wires that carry power to different systems. everything should be linked. hitting the core would do nothing (functioning bridges anyone?) and instead you hit systems, thrust, weapons, life support, until the ship is rendered useless or you do directly hit the astronaut mode players, who die. the ship never dies, but it is rendered useless and debris

I have linked this to calbiri several times, and everytime we come up with different ways power ingame could work, and they always seem really good ^^
This is the planned power system for another game similar to starmade, but behind in the dev schedule

 

[Reilly Reese]

Their system does feel better assembled

 

[lupoCani]

That's exactly what I have bwwn suggesting as well, except with systems being disabled by receiving damage equal to a few tenths of their total health pool rather than through a vital components mechanic.

 

[Lecic]

Personally. I think that the planned HP system is fine. It's going to be near impossible for equally sized ships to actually slug eachother's HP to 0, so they'll be doing more things like destroying weapons and thrusters and command centers.

 

[lupoCani]

I'm just worried it will feel arbitrary and hard-coded. It will be better than the current system for sure, but nevertheless, a "take this much damage and you're dead" mechanic in an otherwise so modular game feels like it will leave a lot of room for improvement.

 

[ResonKinetic]

I think ships should be "killed" in the realistic fashion of destroying or disconnecting a ship from its integral blocks.

In other words, no more "killing" ships by destroying the core, but "killing" ships by eliminating the things that make it a ship.

Naturally, this would take forever, so that is why some blocks should be made volatile and explosive, such as blocks that recharge shields or power. This way, if these weak points are hit, they detonate and affect other blocks around them.

It would be very engaging and realistic, and it would provide interesting scenarios where a pilot or crew member is stranded in a torn-off shard of a ship for example.

EDIT: Oh wait, I just realized therimmer said everything I had imagined.

still, i think this post is valid