PSA: Read this before posting! (Revised!)

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    After considering community opinions and a review with the mod team, we will be dealing with this in a "opt-out" solution.


    Should a faction wish to stay out of larger faction politics and requests to not be a part of faction banter, posts of the sort can be met with consequences.

    This includes:
    • Spreading rumors
    • Posting threats
    • Direct or indirect defamation

    The request should be made clearly at the start of the thread.

    Thank you and happy posting,
    Stardock Moderation Team.
     
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    Pholopalus

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    I will close the other thread regarding this post and open this one for further discussion.
     
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    While I agree that serious bullying over something like factions in a videogame should not happen, some minor light humourous bantz should be. Just my opinion.

    But if thems the rules, then thems the rules and we have to respect them.
     

    Pholopalus

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    This is why it has turned into an opt-out thing. You don't want to be a part of it? Just say so. You do? Carry on.
     
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    "Second of all, please define for us exactly what constitutes "spreading rumors", "posting threats" and "defamation". Understand that such faction smack-talk is a perfectly normal, healthy and essential part of faction relations, interactions and warfare. I personally don't like having to censor and regulate every thing I say when I post in another faction's thread or my own just because it may potentially "offend" others in some abstract or otherwise not-basically-blatant way.

    Factions spread rumors all the time. For example, rumors have been spreading lately that MichaelSeph's Galaxy Rangers faction is returning to the game. That's a rumor. By the guidelines posted in that sticky, anyone who "spreads" this rumor in a faction thread where said faction is an arch-enemy of Galaxy Rangers (like my faction, Arstotzkan Federation), is liable to be punished in the form of a ban or some other way. That is absolutely unfair.

    Threats are one of the biggest things factions do to both protect their interests and ward off potential war. For example, if one faction feels threatened by another, they may post in that other faction's thread and warn them "If you come to our base, we WILL shoot you down and kill you". According to this sticky, giving warnings or threats to another faction like that will result in people getting banned. Again, absolutely ridiculous. We are people in factions that make war on each other. If war talk is not allowed, we might as well not have wars, or factions for that matter, at all.

    Defamation... What is defamation? That big fancy word means "The act of damaging the good reputation of someone; slander or libel". So what does this mean? It means warring factions are not able to turn a few heads by getting the other faction's members to doubt their leadership or to attack their faction's morale. This is detrimental to faction warfare on many levels. Lies and slander are a part of what makes faction warfare FUN. Besides the fact that in most cases it's very easy to deny and dissassemble such rumors and lies when they show up, plus being able to polarize the faction parties on both sides of the argument, so they become even more angry and eager to go to war, resulting in better and more intense battles and great StarMade memories. I remember arguing and smack-talking MichaelSeph with Comr4de's help in the Galaxy Rangers thread last year when we warred with them, and those were some of the best moments of my gameplay and forum experience here.

    All in all, please lighten up with these ridiculous restrictions. I can understand basic no-thinking-needed type rules like factions not spamming the board with multiple hate threads or excessive profanity or drawing genitals on an enemy faction's ship screenshots then posting it in their thread, but these rules are simply so ambiguous that a wide wide WIDE variety of things people say in faction threads logically follow as now being forbidden, and my fear is that these rules are bound to get a good deal of passionate faction people banned unfairly, while also driving down even further the activity on the faction board as people are discouraged to post for the sake not "not flaming". I encourage the mods to reconsider this."

    -Planr

    These are extremely good points and I would like to see them answered to because honestly this forums is so restrictive I would consider it more of a news website where people just look at ships and read patch notes rather then actually participate in drama which is honestly almost as entertaining as the game itself.
     
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    The rules on this forum I've found very lax compared to other sites. There is a site that has a game more violent than GTA yet any swears (including minor like ass) get you auto-banned for a week...Nazi mods that ban you for no reason/you disagree with them also included.

    Yes, they are rather ambiguous. But I think what Pholo is trying to say is, if you don't wanna be part of faction banter, just state it at the start of your thread.

    Still, I agree with some of your post. It might be better and a more chilled experience this way however, let's see how it goes before passing mighty judgement.
     

    Pholopalus

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    Right, this has been taken far more draconianly than was initially planned. It was intended to stop the shit-flinging that ends up with us getting floods of reports because it's been taken a step too far. After realizing how draconian it appeared to be after both internally reviewing it and Planr's thread we reconsidered the stance that we were taking.

    I'm not going to address every point because Planr is for the most part correct.
    I've taken an ambiguous approach to the criteria for breaking this rule because people like to try and weasel their way out of rule breaches like this and it gives us more room to act - with this I am not meaning we plan to ban everyone who even steps a hair out of line, I mean, should we need to act, the player who acted out can't turn around and say "but I said x but the rules only say I can't say y.

    All in all, please lighten up with these ridiculous restrictions. ...
    This has been addressed by changing it to an "opt-out" system.

    These are extremely good points and I would like to see them answered to because honestly this forums is so restrictive I would consider it more of a news website where people just look at ships and read patch notes rather then actually participate in drama which is honestly almost as entertaining as the game itself.
    The intention is not to created a restricted community where no fun is allowed and you must be the perfect community member all times or be faced with the wrath of a moderator. It's to allow us to take steps to ensure that any players with any play style are free to play the way they wish. If they don't want to engage in faction politics in a competitive manner like many others do, that's there choice and we will do what we can to allow that.
     
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    The intention is not to created a restricted community where no fun is allowed and you must be the perfect community member all times or be faced with the wrath of a moderator. It's to allow us to take steps to ensure that any players with any play style are free to play the way they wish. If they don't want to engage in faction politics in a competitive manner like many others do, that's there choice and we will do what we can to allow that.
    I realize your intentions are not ill but the problem is they way you are handling the situation currently, people have received countless warning points due to their dedication at protecting their factions intrests on the forums which often results to arguements taking place, that should not be the case.

    Also the warning point system should to be changed because from what I understand after speaking to Duke of Realms moderators intervene only after a report has been filed against a certain person, let me explain the problem through an example.

    Say the leader of faction A goes to a random thread and starts to defame faction B. Faction B notices the post and starts to react erupting in smack talk on both sides. Now faction A who started the whole arguement decides to report the members of faction B and the moderators intervene giving warning points to the members of faction B because it just happens that faction B has a bad reputation of being in arguements or the mods are too tired to read. That means the faction at fault gets away Scott free because the other guys just can't be bothered to report minor disputes.

    Bottom line is I think the moderators should not be obliged to entertain each and every report because some of them are just ridiculous and giving warning points which can result in bans to the people who get reported without getting to the bottom of matters and identifying if the post is under faction politics or purely to educe rage should be a must before any action is taken.

    Also I know that it might be a pain but to ensure the staff are not corrupt it would help if a report was to be filled up stating the offense with evidence of a user before warning points can be issued.
     

    Pholopalus

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    I realize your intentions are not ill but the problem is they way you are handling the situation currently, people have received countless warning points due to their dedication at protecting their factions intrests on the forums which often results to arguements taking place, that should not be the case.
    I will not comment on this as I personally haven't handled reports related to factions.

    Also I know that it might be a pain but to ensure the staff are not corrupt it would help if a report was to be filled up stating the offense with evidence of a user before warning points can be issued.
    I wouldn't be surprised if our processes changed soon to address this better.
     
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    If you have people on the forms, there will be conflict in a verity of forms, manor, and style. To try and remove conflict you will subsequently lose those who seek it. Attempt to remove people to stop conflict, it creates more.
    You have said you have put in place these rule to restrict some pvp factions... but what I have seen is that all factions do this. Lie, rumors, flame or post threats. Threats.. that's a funny one to me. Oh yes let's take out all conflict and competition from he game and let's see how far this game gets.... some conflict is good within the means of competition, fun, and a certain respect. It seems to me, alot of respect is lost between factions and others.
     
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    War I think think we need instructions on how to behave and talk to people. As each person has developed and grown up to communicate is a certain way that may be abrasive, crude, and insensitive to others. The forum should have rules much like each server. Follow the rules and address problems as they occur, if the rules don't cover the current problem. Make up a good new rule that addresses it. Now it is not endorsed which is good, a forum site that enforces you to behave a certain way isn't really a good thing lol.

    Extreme minority. .. is that just one person??? Of course any thing under 51 percent is the minority . The extreme tho.. hmm that statement sounds like an attempt to say that those who voice their opinions are viewed less because they arnt apart of the majority.
     

    FlyingDebris

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    Two, Leanson, I love this new system. I've had to put up with you and your friends shitposting all over about me and my faction, and now people actually seem to give a shit about what goes on in those posts/threads/etc.

    I'd like to address one point made, about how mods should be able to pick and choose which reports they look at... In a later post you said that the moderators should be checked in case of corruption. In a moderating position, isn't picking and choosing who you give warning points to almost the exact definition of corruption?

    Also, you two are part of the extreme minority... I can easily think of far more people (myself included) who are absolutely fed up with the arguing and insults flung around on a daily basis.

    Pholo, thanks for all the work you guys do.
     
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    Debris you know this applies to you as well, as you done it in the past. Nice ships BTW FD.
     
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    Leanson you know this applies to you as well, as you done it in the past. Nice ships BTW. XD
     
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    Oh haha I know I have, I'm not excepting myself from what I have done. As FD said my name and twos he failed to mention his own and many others. It is easy to select the few recent people in memory and try to single them out in attempts to exclude yourself for what you have done in the past. Now I have done many things, some for fun, others to spark conflict. The problem is once conflict is sparked it burns out of control.
    Sides.. that is all it comes down to and against. .. and fd, I agree picking and choosing is corruption.
     

    Reilly Reese

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    *Has never been in faction flame war really.*

    *Is not affected in any way by this as far as posting habits go*
     
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    Two, Leanson, I love this new system. I've had to put up with you and your friends shitposting all over about me and my faction, and now people actually seem to give a shit about what goes on in those posts/threads/etc.

    I'd like to address one point made, about how mods should be able to pick and choose which reports they look at... In a later post you said that the moderators should be checked in case of corruption. In a moderating position, isn't picking and choosing who you give warning points to almost the exact definition of corruption?

    Also, you two are part of the extreme minority... I can easily think of far more people (myself included) who are absolutely fed up with the arguing and insults flung around on a daily basis.

    Pholo, thanks for all the work you guys do.
    You're the one who goes around acting all arrogant provoking people, want an example?

    Well screw you too, bendm. Dark, why not steal from the CR? They love foul play, after all...
    you pulled us into this topic for god knows what reason, and when I said I'd love to see you try you responded with a defame:

    Us or them?

    It's kind of pointless for us to, as we already have access your ships.

    If you're talking about them though, I agree it would be interesting to watch.
    this is excluding how you've been calling our ships crappy during the duration of my ban. Point is FD if you don't want to get in an argument then don't provoke one. Your acting like a pre-school tattle tale FD and its getting annoying as hell.

    source: http://starmadedock.net/threads/shadow-raiders.1968/page-2
     

    MrFURB

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    ...Again? *Sigh*
    @FlyingDebris, @TwoNiner, I would highly recommend that you two not begin faction drama on a thread specifically about moderating faction drama. Might not be a good idea.
    Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
     
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