Shield Bubbles, Integrity Fields, Shield Frequencies, and Weapons

[Skwidz]

In thread Reviewing StarMade bubble shields were mentioned in post #19 and JinM asked if either a bubble or a surface shield would be better. This question was answered and later I posted some details about possible shielding mechanics in post #27. Here's are some suggestions I want to refine:

Shields:

A. The current surface shield mechanics use capacitors and rechargers to determine a sphere of influence within which a shield will be generated on the surface of blocks. This can be interpreted as a kind of bubble shield, but the bubble is just the shield bounds. The current shields work perfectly for a kind of integrity field as shown in Avorion; an integrity generator will generate a field which clings to the surface of each block of the ship or station to add more HP to the blocks. Implementing this mechanic is simple: just boost the integrity of each system within the field based on the amount of rechargers/capacitors used and maybe prevent the integrity fields from boosting themselves. Then the rechargers/capacitors can then be renamed/retextured. Since the integrity fields in Avorion add HP to blocks, the new integrity field mechanic could act as a weaker shield.

B. For a bubble shield to count as a true bubble shield, the shield has to be bubble-shaped (or box-shaped, if you want it Avorion style for whatever reason). The bubble can be calculated based on the ship's length, height, width, and maybe mass to affect the shield's thickness or distance from the hull. The bubble shield also has to stop projectiles at its surface for it to "count". Instead of shield rechargers and capacitors a shield generator customizable multi block structure could be used, maybe similar in construction to the current power 2.0 power reactor/reactor chamber setup.

C. To make things more interesting only ships/stations with the same shield frequency can pass through the shields of another ship/station. The shield generator can also be "tuned" to output a different frequency or a faction-specific frequency (maybe the sum of all the ASCII numbers of all the characters in a title?) range. For instance the default (neutral) frequency range is 0-255. The frequency range for a faction is 0 + ASCII_sum to 255 + ASCII_sum and added to a unique faction id which isn't available by normal means (except commands?). With faction frequencies only ships using the same frequency can come in contact without the shields damaging each other etc. A faction-based frequency can be created by linking a faction module to a shield generator controller and enabling the "faction frequency" option, if menus are to be involved. Then the frequency number is generated and can be displayed in display modules, ship menus, or pressing "r" on maybe the shield generator block or whatever it could be. This way the only way to obtain a faction's shield frequency is through spies. In the case of a faction's enemy (or friend?) getting hold of a faction's frequency a ship's/station's shield generator can have its frequency changed to another value (0-255, + the faction's ASCII sum and a new unique id).

Weapons:

A. This is a generic plasma/laser/rocket/shell-based weapon idea placeholder line. (insert your ideas here)

B. When a shield is set to a specific frequency, only laser weapons with that frequency can penetrate it. This applies to support tools as well, except for shield supply tools (is this going to be replaced?). Anything that's not a laser weapon will be destroyed by the shield (or damaged if the "projectile" is a bunch of blocks).

Misc. things which are relevant to the thread:

A. In the early episodes of Star Trek Enterprise Enterprise polarizes its hull to defend against projectiles and other stuff. The hull still takes some damage so this could be a good example for the integrity field idea.

B. In Stargate Atlantis Atlantis and other ships each have a bubble shield. When hit, the shield depletes some energy (I'd assume the same goes for the Jumpers) and shows "energy cracks" along with the projectile exploding where the projectile hit the bubble. Something which looks a bit like this would be cool.

Thanks for reading my big text wall. Please leave your comments, ideas, and change suggestions.

 

[Qweesdy]

In my opinion, most "science fiction" is 99% fiction where anything resembling science is accidental.

As an exercise it might be fun to ask: If someone (Ol' Musky?) wanted to make real shields, how would they actually work?

The first idea that comes to mind is "ferro fluids" (Ferrofluid - Wikipedia). Essentially, have pores in the outer hull that allow the ship to excrete a ferrous liquid, and then control that fluid with electro-magnets to make it thicker at points where projectiles will hit "soon". For increased resistance to kinetic damage the fluid could also have non-newtonian properties (Non-Newtonian fluid - Wikipedia).

I can't think of a way to make "bubble shields in a vacuum" sound plausible - I think games use bubble shields for no reason other than making it easier to do collision detection (which can become "if(distance_from_projectile_to_bubble_center < bubble_radius)" without having to care if any part of the ship was actually hit).

 

[Matt_Bradock]

@Queesdy if we want to point at a realistic defense mechanism, we have to go back all the way to Babylon-5: Interceptors (basicly point defense turrets) to stop projectiles.
There was very little defense against beam weapons until Earth came up with the first shield-like defense mechanism, the E-Web. Which was still not a big bubble shield because they couldn't cover that large area with a strong enough EM field, instead clusters of small synchronous EM field generators that were especially effective against charge particle and neutralised particle beams (although they only dispersed the beam, didn't stop it - material armor was still required to absorb the beam's energy, although it was easier with the E-Web, as it wasn't nearly as focused as originally would be.
There is no realistic shield mechanism. Sorry, but if we want shields, we have to forego hyperrealism, and get into some techno-magic.
or if you want to armortank everything, you can go play Empyrion or Space Engineers (vanilla, not modded; one of the most popular mods in SE is exactly the one that brings shields into play)

 

[Star-Boy]

In my opinion, most "science fiction" is 99% fiction where anything resembling science is accidental.

As an exercise it might be fun to ask: If someone (Ol' Musky?) wanted to make real shields, how would they actually work?

The first idea that comes to mind is "ferro fluids" (Ferrofluid - Wikipedia). Essentially, have pores in the outer hull that allow the ship to excrete a ferrous liquid, and then control that fluid with electro-magnets to make it thicker at points where projectiles will hit "soon". For increased resistance to kinetic damage the fluid could also have non-newtonian properties (Non-Newtonian fluid - Wikipedia).

I can't think of a way to make "bubble shields in a vacuum" sound plausible - I think games use bubble shields for no reason other than making it easier to do collision detection (which can become "if(distance_from_projectile_to_bubble_center < bubble_radius)" without having to care if any part of the ship was actually hit).

Shields would work the same way the Earth's electromagnetic field and ionosphere protect us from cosmic rays. They would just need to be more condensed and powerful than our planet's naturally occurring shields. If you look at pictures of an aurora and look at pictures of the Enterprise under fire the two things look quite similar because the fictional technology is inspired by a natural phenomenon.

 

[Qweesdy]

Shields would work the same way the Earth's electromagnetic field and ionosphere protect us from cosmic rays. They would just need to be more condensed and powerful than our planet's naturally occurring shields. If you look at pictures of an aurora and look at pictures of the Enterprise under fire the two things look quite similar because the fictional technology is inspired by a natural phenomenon.

Um, strong magnetic fields would attract missiles to the ship. It's the opposite of a shield.

 

[kulbolen]

i think there are lots of examples where sci fi uses semi realistic stuff. it helps with grounding the universe and making it feel more believable. physical damage negating shields are not one of those examples. its fantasy magic as far as we know right now, and artistic license could be taken to make it cool.

 

[Zoolimar]

Surface shields: The good part they do not put much strain on the server and work consistently. Though how they are currently implemented means that their application bubble radius would shrink after shields are damaged - still it's not a big problem considering that chances of recharging a shield seem to be not that high.

Personally I would have preferred something like "downtime" for shields instead of constant recharge counteracted by weapon hits - shield that is completely depleted goes into a reboot cycle and after it is complete shield activates at full power again (minus damage accrued by shield blocks during downtime of course).

Bubble shields: They allow more interesting interactions that would be especially noticeable on large ships. Things like bombing runs with smaller ships or just sticking your guns in the side of the enemy ship and shooting until there is a big hole. You also could make dedicated shield ships to cover your fleet without making them look like giant plates.

Force fields/Powered armour: A variant of surface shields where only certain blocks get the effect. For example only force field blocks or armour blocks. Connect a shield group to a force field block group and they get the HP pool of the shield. You would be able to setup multiple screens with different power around your ship exactly where you want them.

In case of force fields they ideally should also be able to regenerate.

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Weapons: For weapons what I want is really full control of how they function. Ideally with proper weight given to range modifications. So that you could do a weapon with 50-500 meter range and a lot of damage or with 20+ km of range (or whatever will be the server maximum). This way small/fast ships would be able to mount proper dedicated close combat weapons instead of Death Pulse.

 

[Star-Boy]

Um, strong magnetic fields would attract missiles to the ship. It's the opposite of a shield.

Missiles in Starmade don't appear to be metal rockets but even if they were magnetism can repel metal as well as attract it.

 

[OfficialCoding]

All these people are treating starmade as a realistic game and taking it way too seriously. You can't make ships out of cubes. Doesn't matter if bubble shields work in real life. It worked in star wars, and it can work now.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

All these people are treating starmade as a realistic game and taking it way too seriously. You can't make ships out of cubes. Doesn't matter if bubble shields work in real life. It worked in star wars, and it can work now.

Thing is, the bubble shields on ships weren't so apparent in SW until The Last Jedi when you can actually see the impacts on the Raddus and the other 2 ships. Before that, even in The Phantom Menace the shields on the Naboo Starfighter were conforming to the surface.
Bubble shields are much more of a trademark of Star Trek than Star Wars. In several episodes there are even examples of one ship extending its shield bubble to protect the other.

Nerdism off, yes, Starmade should NOT be treated too seriously. I for one, like some techno-magic if it results in interesting gameplay mechanics. I would HATE to play a game set in The Expanse (so far, most realistic sci-fi I have seen on TV) universe, and calculate orbits, and spend days on repairing my ship after every engagement, even the smallest skirmish, because there are no shields. Same thing I hates in vanilla SE and Empyrion, no shields means your ship WILL take damage and you WILL have to spend hours on repairs. Because there is no automated shipyard even. Hell, in survival mode SE and EMP there isn't even much in symmetry, and only EMP had multi-block placement.

 

[OfficialCoding]

Thing is, the bubble shields on ships weren't so apparent in SW until The Last Jedi when you can actually see the impacts on the Raddus and the other 2 ships. Before that, even in The Phantom Menace the shields on the Naboo Starfighter were conforming to the surface.
Bubble shields are much more of a trademark of Star Trek than Star Wars. In several episodes there are even examples of one ship extending its shield bubble to protect the other.

Nerdism off, yes, Starmade should NOT be treated too seriously. I for one, like some techno-magic if it results in interesting gameplay mechanics. I would HATE to play a game set in The Expanse (so far, most realistic sci-fi I have seen on TV) universe, and calculate orbits, and spend days on repairing my ship after every engagement, even the smallest skirmish, because there are no shields. Same thing I hates in vanilla SE and Empyrion, no shields means your ship WILL take damage and you WILL have to spend hours on repairs. Because there is no automated shipyard even. Hell, in survival mode SE and EMP there isn't even much in symmetry, and only EMP had multi-block placement.

Good point, but if you remember back to The Phantom Menace, the gungans had a shield bubble in the battle against the droids. This is the example JW608 always uses. So bubble shields have been in star wars for a long time.