1. 17th of July, 2019: SMD is currently under maintenance, the site may go down while we are working on it. Apologies for the inconvenience.

    Reviewing StarMade

    Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ratchet Hundreda, Mar 1, 2018.

    Tags:
    ?

    Was this review helpful?

    1. Yes

      11 vote(s)
      47.8%
    2. No

      9 vote(s)
      39.1%
    3. Funny

      3 vote(s)
      13.0%
    1. Ratchet Hundreda

      Joined:
      Mar 25, 2016
      Messages:
      49
      As I'm writing this review StarMade is the second most played game in my steam library right before Kerbal Space Program. Do I recommend this game?

      Short answer: Absolutely NOT!

      Long answer:

      As of 2018 February 28 the game is officially one of the top 10 games with the longest development time in history currently ranking 10th on the list besides Shenmue. The game is still nothing but an alpha release at its best. Not only did it completely miss the voxelmania age proceeding the success of Minecraft but by the time this game will leave alpha or reach any state of which could be considered playable actual human interplanetary space travel will probably have already started either by NASA or Space X. The fact this game still receives suitable founding for its continued development baffles me and i find it hardly believable.

      This far cry from a game is a dream of one guy who wanted to create something similar to Minecraft but in space working like EVE online with proper strategy elements faction building and unique PVP and PVE content. Not only does the game's current code technically unable to support such a thing but there is barely any proper groundwork for the mentioned systems in it reaching into the 6th year since its birth.

      As of 2018 now we stand before a community which had enough. Be it either new changes to the game they don't like, the excessively slow development of features or the lack of honesty from the developers side. There are two sides of the crowd. There are the ones from way back the veterans who followed through hell and are here to tell their long boring stories of the past and how they are angry of what became of the thing they fought so hard for and the newborns who are just checking in asking around about this fancy looking huge box in the middle of the room covered in dust and cry as they realize there is nothing inside it. Both story ends sadly and in the end of the day it is the author to blame.

      There is a legacy this game will leave behind. This legacy will be either a lesson to the very few daring enough to open this huge box or a huge gift which the whole neighborhood will talk about for many many years to come. This is the crucial point in time the fate of this legacy will be decided either by the author the actors or destiny. I'm personally a guy who likes stories with a good ending so I will keep on rooting for this good ending and act as the foreteller of a prophecy.

      I hope for a time my short answer will be just an ABSOLUTELY!

      Steam Community :: ラチツ フンヅレダ :: Review for StarMade
       
      #1 Ratchet Hundreda, Mar 1, 2018
      Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
      • Like Like x 11
    2. JinM

      Joined:
      Jun 11, 2016
      Messages:
      1,128
      The voxelmania age is still not over. Most scify sandbox games are just like Starmade still in development.

      Empyrion will lack behind in logic, production lines and building big ships. Additionally it will never have pistons or movable docked entities. I follow its ambitions and its roadmap and in booth matters it doesn't seem to even think about these two parts. Last, but least important thing is the splitting of the universe, it's all distributed over multiple maps ("playfields") you have to load seperately.

      But the lacking logic and production lines is something I really miss in Empyrion. You can't alter display code with logic, you can't make cool maps and stuff with logic, you can't do Minigames, you have basically a big limitter on your creativity with it. Production in Empyrion might get revamped, but I think it will not get very much more exciting.

      Now what's with the other competitors? Dual Universe: Online only on one server (MMO). Space Engineers: No costum spawning of stations, more a tech demo and building simulation. Going big doesn't work neither. Sky Wanderers: One-Man-project. Well advertised but there will not be planets and up to now it can't be told if the dev will fullfill his promisse. Interstellar Rift: I haven't try it jet, but it seems not to have logic in Starmades scale neither. Moving entities (I mean that what we have with rails) are not existing and will very likely not getting added.
      So what I tried to say with my text was: Starmade fills a nische and there seems to be no competitor that is going to compete with Starmade in his particullar strenghts. You think that Starmade is falling behind. I can't see that the other games are ahead, as they are not really competing with Starmade in the parts it is the strongest: Logic, moving ship parts, one universe instead of splitted maps, crazy production lines.

      Oh and don't forget fleets and the factions that are going to be implemented. I doubt any of the competitors are even remotely thinking about adding in AI controlled fleet fights.

      But I have to agree in one thing: I can't recommend it to many people. Too many things are not working right now. Starting from shipyards over trading, then the AI, and finally not even lock-on missiles work. So I can totally understand your negative rating.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    3. Matt_Bradock

      Matt_Bradock The Shrink

      Joined:
      Aug 4, 2013
      Messages:
      798
      You can't sell a game alone on the complex logic circuits and production it provides unless it's Factorio. Definitely doesn't work for a space survival game.
      As far as building complexity goes, Empyrion is furthest behind. Simple as Lego, you have every system prefab, where you place them only matters in the way what gets blown up first in a battle. Physics sim is OK-ish. Not too great. Capital PvP is a slugfest, and without anything like shipyards or other quick means to disassemble/repair a vessel, you gonna spend 10x as much time licking your wounds and maintenance as on actually having fun. However, IT HAS ITS CORE SYSTEMS DOWN AND WORKING. It forces exploration by placing the higher tier materials in either risky hostile structures or far away planets that get progressively more dangerous as well. It has a working survival aspect. It looks fine. (although VERY poorly optimized). What you lose on the differently loaded playfields, win back on how nicely those are detailed and how good planets actually look and function.

      Space Engineers has the physics game down the best and planets second best. Building-wise, it is a lot more complex than Empyrion, especially how you actually need wiring and conveyors to get stuff from storage/manufacturing to where it actually gets used (power, ammo etc.) With mods that add a ton more new stuff (including shields and a motherload of new combat systems) the building complexity almost rivals Starmade - except it's really hard to find anything you can put those beautifully made ships to use on. PvE is almost non-existent... PvP is meh.

      Skywanderers I didn't have the chance yet to try, but don't diss one-man projects, JinM because Starmade also started as one. Sometimes I think it would have been better off staying that way. Too many voices Schema needs to listen to nowadays, which I blame for not picking a straight direction and development focus.

      Starmade definitely has the best shipbuilding tools. The multiple symmetry, the (overwhelming) amount of decorative blocks and the system options and placement all create an unmatched complexity and number of specialization options (meta aside - every game with a fight aspect will have a meta. It's inevitable. Even single-player open-world RPGs like Skyrim had builds that worked better than anything else, see stealth archer.) Power 2.0 had one goal accomplished, the customization options finally came with hard enough trade-offs that you need to pick a very defined role for your ship even besides "I want this for battle".
      BUT, and here's what Starmade is so far behind those other games: core systems that should be working, don't. Shipyards, which were intended as a crucial feature, don't work. Planets, which were subjected to a major rework already, and are intended to have their own ecosystems in the future, and are supposed to be starting bases for new players and starting players, are so unstable that they are to be avoided if possible. AI, is crap, despite having NPC factions in the game. Even systems that USED TO work a couple patches ago, DO NOT any more. There are bugs in the Phabricator that have been there unaddressed or validated but unresolved FOR OVER A YEAR. The game is a mess, and that's where it falls off. Because the others, despite still being in alpha, fix what's wrong before adding new stuff. Or at least try to. Not this one.
       
      • Like Like x 2
    4. JinM

      Joined:
      Jun 11, 2016
      Messages:
      1,128
      I agree on all the other parts of your comment.

      But for the logic part I have to tell you, that it offers possibilities for minigames and missions. It also adds in this nice station automatization minigame for hangars, elevators, doors, turrets, moving creative parts like draw-bridges, blinking big text via light modules or fish in fishtanks (hello LVD-spawn) production, and ressource distribution to containers and ships.

      So ofcourse you can't sell a pvp oriented scifi sandbox game on the logic, but for me it's the biggest playing reason anyway. And I think many others don't know it, but they feel it when they play the game: Stations feel more alive with many logic interactions. Displays with updating texts, pictures or bars.

      Don't underestimate this elements.
       
    5. Matt_Bradock

      Matt_Bradock The Shrink

      Joined:
      Aug 4, 2013
      Messages:
      798
      Logic and fancy decor should come LAST on the priority list, as it actually comes on a player's list, when you actually play the game on a multiplayer PvP/survival server. Think of Starmade as a gun. You can have the most revolutionary, fancy-ass, brand-new hypermodern gun in universe with a metric ton of customizable gadgets for it, but if it jams after every second shot, then you gonna get owned by the first dude with a used, rusty, 50-year-old, dented, basic a.f. but WORKING AK-47. That's how it goes. A basic but playable game beats a fancy but unplayable one.
       
      • Like Like x 3
    6. Ratchet Hundreda

      Joined:
      Mar 25, 2016
      Messages:
      49
      I hate to pop your ballon but just because there are many developers still trying to appeal with new voxel-based games doesn't mean people are still interested in them. In fact even the great Minecraft's playerbase is already slowly but surely disappearing which is a trend in most voxel-based games generally speaking. This means StarMade's potential also shrinks with each year passing by with no suitable progress made in its development.

      The period in the gaming industry when you could just get away with promising all fancy to players but deliver nothing is over. The gaming community in large became self-aware enough to straight up destroy you if you do this. People know what it takes and how long it should take to develop certain features and will get mad if promises made are all just talk. The "Early Access" title is no longer something which you can just milk for money to no end. If you payed close enough attention to how things are going around StarMade nowadays you should see this is something which already started. Some people are already trying to destroy this game and the developers. I'm personally sad to see this. I am also one to see the potential that is wasted as it all falls. However as i said all sad story has an author to blame for the ending.

      StarMade IS falling behind in like every aspect imaginable... Matt_Bradock summarized this nicely. Just because it has an element which others don't doesn't mean it is better in any way and in fact with your logic it would mean that StarMade has a single thing which others don't but also pretty much nothing else at the same time.

      Do not think FOR A SECOND I'm trying to be destructive with my OP. I'm simply stating the obvious and if anything trying to open the eyes of some who keep them closed. I've bought this game on steam to support its development for a reason! However it keeps letting me down...

      (I didn't even get a forum badge for it for crying out loud -.-)
       
      • Like Like x 1
    7. JinM

      Joined:
      Jun 11, 2016
      Messages:
      1,128
      Nah I don't think you are destructive. In fact I think your concerns are pretty justified.

      For the badge there is this thread.

      Have fun and I hope to see you back in the game someday. :)
       
      • Like Like x 2
    8. schlid

      Joined:
      Oct 5, 2014
      Messages:
      9
      Currently planets aren't in the game, however the developer, Tsunamayo does plan to add fully fledged planets, so this is incorrect. You might have got confused with the fact ring worlds are the only "land mass" features to build upon in game at the moment, these have been added first to proof of concept the tech used to add voxels to a curved surface, and seem like a more sensible way to test the water than with a planet, which not only is several times larger, but also concerns an extra axis of curvature. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

      Reference to where this has been mentioned by the developer:
      [​IMG]
      (From the now funded KS campaign - scroll to FAQ section where this is covered. Skywanderers)

      As for your concerns about delivering on his promises, these are granted with any project you're backing into prior to it being complete.
       
    9. JinM

      Joined:
      Jun 11, 2016
      Messages:
      1,128
      Yeah look. There are no planets in early access. So my statement is right as long as you look at it in a realistic timespan. I bet there will be no planets in the next 3 years. Or do you think this game will include planets right after it leaves early access in... one and a half year?

      Kickstarter: Done!
      Thanks to your help the kickstarter campaign was successful!

      Including the paypal option the campaign raised more than 47000 EUR from 1459 backers!

      These funds will allow me to work for a year before going live on Steam Early Access, at the end of 2018.

      The discord and forum rewards will be sent by mail mid october, the steam key for the closed pre-alpha will be sent end october.

      In the meantime you can check:

      - The kickstarter page and the youtube channel for regular updates on the game progress.

      - The offical forum to suggest ideas and help me improve the game.

      - The game discord to join the Skywanderers familly.

      You can ofcourse talk about stuff that is going to be promissed in 2,5+ years of development. But...Dude I am judging early access game in regards of what is within the scope of the developer and that will be delivered within less than 18 months. Good and promissing early access games where and are for example Rimworld or Oxygen not included. Why? Because you had tons of fun playing it right when you bought it. And with each update it was worth to play it again.

      So it maybe cool when this game hits early access. It sounds promissing.

      But seriously this "SW will have planets" piece of info is "useless", because it wont have planets in 3 years. Bet with me on it.

      Sorry when I am sounding a bit agressive/annoying here but I want to prevent you from getting your hopes up before it's justified. Because this game has a 50-50 chance that it even hits EA.


      There are 2 very disturbing parts about planets here besides that they are not playable in less than 2 years: 1: He promisses it to keep people's hopes up. This is obvious bait. 2: He doesn't specify on how in the world he plans on implementing planets. Just look it up, you will see that there are a big load of problems with planets. There is a reason that there are no planets in sandboxes that are also in one universe instead of being loaded as "level".

      The thing here is for me: If I am a developer, and I would say "hey I will make planets". Then I only say that when I allready thought about how to do that.
      Then I would know: Oh hey planets are complicated.
      Then I either say: "Ok I found a way I can do this and I can still promisse it." This is the first way. Or I say: "No I have no idea on the arrising problems better don't promisse it." This would be the 2nd way.
      Then I would share with the people I want money from: "Hey I will include planets and I allready have some good ideas on how I am doing it. Because I allready thought about it and I had some troubles here, but I share with you now that I am confident and that I also find solutions for difficult stuff. Also they will be implemented as seperately loaded level and can't be shoot at from the galaxy. (Or maybe he even found a way to keep them in one universe. But this specific is also missing.)"
      But there is also a 3rd way: "Hey I thought about planets and I realised they are hard to implement, but I promisse them anyway and will hide that I didn't found a solution on the complicated parts about planets. Because this could stain my image."

      Now you tell me which of the 3 ways I described would be the most likely one. Or can you even imagine another 4th way?

      You get me?

      Just be happy that the tries to work on it. But only get your hopes up after he allready delivered something that you would actually play and is worth your time

      Right now it's just a demo and he sounds too confident instead of being cautious. This man doesn't even say that he can work in a team. If this game ever wants to get big he needs a team. But right now he only gives me the imagine on being a solo player because he acts like he can bear every weight.

      And I have to tell you that I could imagine playing this game, if he also delivers what he wants for early access. Because it doesn't look and sound too bad. But in over one year...you know. :)

      But thanks for the news and info. I thought he didn't even want to incorporate planets at all. Well at least he promissed them. :)
       
    10. splatthecat

      Joined:
      Jan 14, 2016
      Messages:
      401
      I have recommended StarMade to several people and all bar one still play it.

      I have tried many similar games (even Minecraft) but always return to StarMade.

      Apart from a few months last year when I was unable to play I will normally spend at least an hour in the game every day.

      I hate the annoying bugs and glitches and wish that the developers would get their fingers out and develop!

      Some players (and I am not directing these comments to the OP) appear to have lost interest in the game which is fine if a little disturbing for the developers. Either the novelty has worn off or the game is not going in the direction they'd like. Whatever the reason they continue to bitch about it in the forums every day. OK, we get it, you don't like StarMade any more. Uninstall it and delete your bookmark to SMD. Leave those of us who still just enjoy playing the game to get on with it without your moans and rants!

      StarMade with all it's faults was one of the first things I installed on my laptop last December and still love playing it.
       
    11. Nauvran

      Nauvran Cake Build Server Official Button Presser

      Joined:
      Jun 30, 2013
      Messages:
      2,149
      He's working a lot faster than Schema, probably because of Unity.
      and they already kinda have a planet prototype ingame in form of the ringworld.
      And the game is already in EA, it's "on" steam just not available to public yet (should be october I think)[​IMG]

      I dont get why you seem to hostile towards Skywanderers, it is more promising right now since updates comes out often with a lot of cool features.
      I get you're cautious but why be more against SKW than SM?
       
    12. therimmer96

      therimmer96 The Cake Network Staff Senior button unpusher

      Joined:
      Jun 21, 2013
      Messages:
      3,588
      Because it's trash with a pretty painting on the front.
       
    13. Nauvran

      Nauvran Cake Build Server Official Button Presser

      Joined:
      Jun 30, 2013
      Messages:
      2,149
      worked for pokemon [​IMG]
       
      • Like Like x 1
    14. therimmer96

      therimmer96 The Cake Network Staff Senior button unpusher

      Joined:
      Jun 21, 2013
      Messages:
      3,588
      did it?
       
    15. JinM

      Joined:
      Jun 11, 2016
      Messages:
      1,128
      I am a little bit hostile against this game because the people who defend it spread misguiding information. And this game encourages this sort of player-driven hype, because it shadows problems and doesn't give a hint wether or not the developer has realistic approaches on the problems a scifi sandbox has.

      Examples of statements that are all not selling points better than Starmade, but that are used to hype the game:
      • Ringworlds = planets (seriously some ringworlds or a flat cookie isn't a planet, Schema can code that in 1 hour too)
      • Planets will be included (doesn't matter because there wont be planets for the next 2 years, it's only to bait)
      • Developer works faster than dev X (this is entirely wrong from your perspective, because every game that doesn't have much content can get new content very fast. When a game has more content, like Starmade has now, it gets slower to add new content because each element needs to link up with the old ones)
      • Game is has allready so many working stuff XYZ - no it does not have working sandbox destruction, any hints about how propulsion mechanics and collision physics work, how entities behave if moving relative to each other, if shields ever work, how lightning works from one entity to another. and most importantly: what the engine will give for fps once all the real sandbox stuff is implemented, and not just shiny mechas and a bloddy Star Wars ship. lol
      And the developer actively encourages with his texts that players hype this game. He actively avoids the imporant questions. This leads to uninformed people going around and spreading misguiding information. And no I don't want to upset or critise you here.

      I just want to point out what I think the game's problems could be, and what I see as pretty hype-oriented advertisment. It's influential advertising that is only that: Advertising. It's not facts or anything realistically or scientifically sound stuff. Only promisses and no clear answers to the bloddy imporant questions (game mechanics, physics, planet solution, pvp economy, stories, modding and workshop for own ships or own quests, server: one central or dedicated, singleplayer and how?).
       
      #15 JinM, Mar 12, 2018
      Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    16. kulbolen

      Joined:
      Jan 4, 2015
      Messages:
      630
      to me sw looks like a lot of lighting and particle effects over bad block mechanics.

      but ... if they manage to get some kinda gameplay working, itll automatically be superior to sm... cause it works.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    17. Ratchet Hundreda

      Joined:
      Mar 25, 2016
      Messages:
      49
      Following the development of StarMade for nearly 2 years and playing as much as i did I can tell the phase at which features are developed for it is really slow. Following the activity on the forums every now and than I can also tell that the developers are doing an amateur job at communicating with the players. There are also rumors I hear about the lead developer being emotionally unstable and how he receives negative critics badly. I don't want to get into this since the topic is sensitive and I've seen a lot of half assessed arguments about it already.

      The groundwork is just as unstable for StarMade as it is for Skywanderers. Both developers could just turn around and leave the whole thing behind at any given moment as if it was nothing to begin with. This is what the title "Early Access" entails. However the difference between the two game is that StarMade have been in development for over 6 years now while Skywanderers just finished a kickstarter and have been in development for only half a year but already has about 75% of what StarMade has features even if similarly half-assessed but implemented. There is much more to lose for the developers of StarMade than there is for the developers of Skywanderers in many terms. However if we compare Skywanderers to StarMade in terms of opportunity I would say Skywanderers is much more promising as of now since it seem to receive new features much more steadily and frequently than StarMade does. For this story again I can only blame the oh mighty author.
       
    18. JinM

      Joined:
      Jun 11, 2016
      Messages:
      1,128
      On the kickstarter page the SW dev explained he worked on the game 3 years before starting the kickstarter. Also the features are not implemented. Not even at 50%. No block destruction, no shields no ship-hp system (when does it overheat), no ai, no fleets, no trading system, no mining system, no production system.

      I don't know what you mean here? I see this as a good thing, if a developer has something to loose. Because then he is more involved. But this discussion point doesn't really lead anywhere. I just wanted to point out that it a zero-summ argument that can be rotated 180 degree in favour of SM and back again.
      This argument seems nice and valid on the surface. But I would say it only can become valid, as soon as the game is actually downloadable and playable. Putting in features into a limitted access game has the big benefit that you can leave everything with placeholders and with bugs. If the game is supposed to be playable (without bugs and actually usable on server just like starmade is right now) and then still gets the same ammount of new content then I would say, yes the game is more promissing. Just don't let yourself missguide by the advertisement the developer does.
       
    19. Captain Skwidz

      Captain Skwidz turtleStew

      Joined:
      Jun 14, 2017
      Messages:
      266
      Actually SW does have block destruction and technically a ship hp system (destroy enough blocks and the ship is useless). Just recently bubble shields were added which work much like sci-fi shields and possibly protect anything that's in its radius.
       
    20. JinM

      Joined:
      Jun 11, 2016
      Messages:
      1,128
      Ah okay. Then I am wrong on that one.

      Btw. what's better bubble shield or surface shield?I mean surface shields allow for diminishing shield stats on docked entities...But I am just currious about the pros and cons right now.
       
    Loading...