Is anyone able to do anything with shipyards?

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    Literally can't do anything with the shipyard apart from creating designs from catalog and blueprint. Can't load any and all options are blanked out. Anyone got a shipyard that works? Cause the shipyard I'm using used to work in the old update.
     
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    i have the same problem with mine...

    but i cant even create designs from catalog or blueprint items. the shipyard always get stuck or isnt able to load the design after creation.

    if the shipyard gets stuck the only thing i know to get the shipyard accasible again is to remove any needed part of it to make it invalid (ideally the core anchor) and re attatch the removed part again.
    this makes the shipyard computer accasible again but it will hang again when retrying anything except a deconstruction order.
     
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    i have the same problem with mine...

    but i cant even create designs from catalog or blueprint items. the shipyard always get stuck or isnt able to load the design after creation.

    if the shipyard gets stuck the only thing i know to get the shipyard accasible again is to remove any needed part of it to make it invalid (ideally the core anchor) and re attatch the removed part again.
    this makes the shipyard computer accasible again but it will hang again when retrying anything except a deconstruction order.
    Its so strange an update that has nothing to do with shipyards breaks shipyards. AndyP looks like I'm not the only one :(
     
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    Its so strange an update that has nothing to do with shipyards breaks shipyards. AndyP looks like I'm not the only one :(
    Not really... Shipyards have to interact with ship design files meaning that they have to load all the meta variables ("meta" as in self-referencing, not Most Effective Tactic Available) associated with them. Since Power 2.0 has a totally separate set of meta variables associated with each ship, it will likely be a very laborious task of creating all the exception rules necessary to make sure that the shipyard does not try loading any Null 1.0 variables and that it finds all of the 2.0 variables that it needs.

    Shipyards are the kind of feature you'd normally wait until you are pretty much ready to go beta to implement; so, I would expect them not to work again until all these new power/weapon/crew mechanics are back to a state that is more-or-less set in stone. Otherwise, they will be chasing tail trying to constantly fix them.
     

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    Not really... Shipyards have to interact with ship design files meaning that they have to load all the meta variables ("meta" as in self-referencing, not Most Effective Tactic Available) associated with them. Since Power 2.0 has a totally separate set of meta variables associated with each ship, it will likely be a very laborious task of creating all the exception rules necessary to make sure that the shipyard does not try loading any Null 1.0 variables and that it finds all of the 2.0 variables that it needs.

    Shipyards are the kind of feature you'd normally wait until you are pretty much ready to go beta to implement; so, I would expect them not to work again until all these new power/weapon/crew mechanics are back to a state that is more-or-less set in stone. Otherwise, they will be chasing tail trying to constantly fix them.
    [Hits "Informative"]
     

    Matt_Bradock

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    Shipyards had this behavior even before power 2.0 update. I have been encountering it months before, even in late 2017 on multiplayer servers. It just never got properly documented.
     

    Matt_Bradock

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    Your first problem is using shipyards.
    Well, the main thing I used them for was deconstruction of damaged and outdated ships as with shipyards I didn't have to manually clean up all the docked rail doors, elevators, chaindrive pendulums and turrets. But the shipyard can't even do that now properly.
     
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    The last time I tried to use a shipyard it was bricked. I just loaded up an old back up of a server data base to pull a file for a friend and I couldn't do anything with the shipyard, no designs could be loaded or created.
     
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    This is what is currently working (and not working) for me in the Ship Yard:
    • Create New Design: Working(load/unload/construct)
    • Create from Catalog: Not working (hangs on load; subsequent attempts to load design give "design is not valid in database" without hanging)
    • Create from Blueprint Item: Not working (same as Create from Catalog)
    • Deconstruct to Design: Working
    • Deconstruct without saving Design: Working
    • Construct loaded design: Working
    Additionally:
    • Spawn Blueprint created from Design: Works
      • Deconstruct spawned blueprint to Design: Works
      • Construct that design: Works
    It appears that Blueprints and Designs just don't mix.
     

    Az14el

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    been able to enter test sector, load/unload designs & unbuild to storage so far
    did have all options grey out until i undocked/redocked a ship after exiting test sector iirc, not sure why
     
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    Matt_Bradock

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    For me, everyrthing works for the first ship. Once I deconstruct the first ship, the second I dock for deconstruction gets detected by the computer but nothing can be done with it, and a shipyard will no longer work on the same entity properly, not even after rebuilding it completely.
     
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    IIRC part of the reason staff never invested the time to polish shipyards after getting them to basically work (proof of concept) was that there were some major overhauls planned for the future (see present moment) that would break them anyway.

    I believe the strategy was establish proof of concept (can this even realistically work?) for all the main features including shipyards, then let them break while making the core upgrades and once core systems are in their new format go back and properly fix secondary features like shipyards and fleets.

    I think it is safe to assume that very, very many features (probably more with Weapons and even more with Galaxy) will continue to be broken through Summer. But. I think once Galaxy is done, the fixes we see to things like shipyards and fleets will be more or less permanent and staff will begin putting real polish on those, eliminating all the nasty little bugs that utterly gimp their practical use in our day to day testing.
     
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    What do you mean by present moment? Where did they reveal these plans?
    I don't know if they ever did in so many words, that's just the impression I got from their previous statements and I believe that it has been pretty strongly implied. I have never made a game, but I have built databases and worked on a variety of other collective & corporate long-term projects, and this is what I see them doing. It is my personal conclusion from what they have said and done and my experience of long projects, but I have been known to draw false conclusions!

    They implement a new system like shipyards or fleets, spend a bit of time getting it working just well enough that people are stoked to use it, they seem very interested in feedback, then generally drop it completelty and utterly except for anything about it that actually destabilizes clients or servers and move on to the next feature or performance upgrade, which usually breaks the most recent feature.

    The pattern fits the model, so that is what I see and have been seeing.

    It's a very sensible long term strategy, but it is very frustrating and confusing for players living in The Now and presuming the game really is just an eternal Alpha with no real plan to ever go Beta. When I look at Beta as real and emminent, the dev priorities make perfect sense.

    By present moment I mean that they said they were going to overhaul core systems and that it would be rough (painful, and it had been) but that it literally had to be done and better now than later. The overhaul has come out, people have freaked, secondary and tertiary systems are falling apart all over... but the car's AC doesn't usually work well while you are replacing your old V6 with a V8 either.

    I feel like broken stations, shipyards, fleets, pretty much every system they aren't currently doing or aren't part of the 2.0 release will be breaking. Expect this. Until after Galaxy, anyway. I think we will see a major cleanup after Galaxy. Reason being that after Galaxy pretty much every core mechanic will have seen a 2.0 overhaul.

    EDIT: Sorry, that response went off on a deep tangent.
     
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    As someone who's built both major databases and video games I agree with this statement. Many commercial games are released as "Open Alpha" or "Open Beta" as a marketing gimmick to justify the quarks of what is really an Agile development cycle on a full release product. (Battlestar Galactica Online comes to mind as an example). This makes ppl bitter in regards to true open Alphas. No one wants to hear that because they are used to hearing about commercial games built around mechanics that are already pretty well pioneered by massive teams hitting stores after 2-3 years of development, but complex games that require a custom engines that explore entire mechanical systems that are not just a rip-off of the last 1000 games to do the same thing often spend 5-10 years in development.
     
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    Yup; at least until the universe update Starmade certiantly could not be classed as anything more than a building simulator.
    Allowing themselves to be more flexiable is certiantly a good move.

    I just hope they'll want to take the community with them in their vision, rather than hoping for a new one to magicaly appear when they press the 'release' button.
     
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    Matt_Bradock

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    Yup; at least until the universe update Starmade certiantly could not be classed as anything more than a building simulator.
    Allowing themselves to be more flexiable is certiantly a good move.

    I just hope they'll want to take the community with them in their vision, rather than hoping for a new one to magicaly appear when they press the 'release' button.
    Well, they already have a basic lua interface, dialog interface with NPCs, spawner system for NPC assets (remember the old derelict station bugs? or the space whale screenshots?) so they definitely wanted something to make the universe more lively.

    I'm also pretty damn sure they wanted to finish and fix the shipyards because they wanted to eventually bind all blueprint production other than stations, to shipyards. At least it was mentioned.
     
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    I just hope they'll want to take the community with them in their vision, rather than hoping for a new one to magicaly appear when they press the 'release' button.

    While some imaginative arguments have recently been made to the contrary, I find difficulty imagining a real-world scenario in which any development team would... not at least want every player & fan they could get, long term.


    Not every good decision will be popular when you must walk a line between performance and scale while simultaneously walking lines between early and late game playability, replay value and new player accessibility. Popular /= Good. Every practical decision is a compromise, and sometimes one of the most influential parties to that compromise is - and should be - the development team itself, both because they also have a creative stake and because they are looking at the long-game and the code itself, not merely "how much fun is this to play this very moment, Today??" Schine has catered to massive amounts of player input. They eventually made it clear (IMO) that a power overhaul was not only needed but long overdue, but that they had long hesitated to pull the trigger, choosing instead to rough-in a few more new features and do more performance upgrades while mapping the overhaul because they knew public response would be a shitstorm, as it has been.

    Schine tried discussing the rebuild with the public, but nothing is good enough for some individuals, and those individuals simply turned back around and stirred up more discontent. Some humans are not capable of real compromise and no amount you give in to them will ever be enough. Ever. They will view any concession on their part as unacceptable and outrageous. That's a crappy reality, but such is humanity.


    The real solution, IMO, is Schine keeping their noses to the grindstone, finishing the overhaul - stat - and getting the game back out of drydock as quickly as bloody possible. Not making lots of words that will neither placate the disgruntled, nor fix the game. Because what will silence the wailing and moaning that no civil discussion or reasoning can quell, is making the game reasonably combat-playable again... so people can get back to gleefully blowing each other up.;)
     
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    I think it is safe to assume that very, very many features (probably more with Weapons and even more with Galaxy) will continue to be broken through Summer. But. I think once Galaxy is done, the fixes we see to things like shipyards and fleets will be more or less permanent and staff will begin putting real polish on those, eliminating all the nasty little bugs that utterly gimp their practical use in our day to day testing.
    It would be nice if shipyards could be fixed once the big changes to ships are done. i.e. after the weapon update, fix the new issues and the old recurring never-fixed issues.

    through Summer
    In all honesty, we'll probably be waiting a year for the universe update, if not more. But hey, surprise me, Schema. Go right ahead.