My two cents on encouraging PvP conflict in a stagnant universe

[Zoolimar]

One way of encouraging expansion may be addition of NPC crew. And you could also tie Faction Points to them. Total number of your faction points determines how many NPCs are willing to work for you at once and number of your bases could determine the maximum amount of FP you could hold.

Losing bases, ships, getting your homebase in blockade and so on will deplete your FP and NPC will start to leave shrinking your work base and combat support fleet.

Now if you have safe zones with low mineral densities people who don't want to constantly engage in PvP can build their bases (small and regulated by NPC mandates) there or even dock to one of the NPC Protectorate stations. Make Protectorate some kind of sufficiently advanced aliens that guide and overlook development of less powerful species or just keep their gardens in certain systems.

People who want to have their own land will expand into other systems claiming multiple asteroid fields and setting their NPC crew to mine them. Now you'll also will have a lot of targets for pirates with NPC pirates sending raiding parties of different strength depending on how large are mining operations in a star system. To lessen attacks Player Faction could spread their assets over a larger territory but it would make it harder to control and defend, making response time of the fleets longer.

 

[GDPR 302420]

Dude, thats so not even PvP, thats just straight up griefing. Even WoW PvP servers have rules saying camping like that is against the rules, and WoW was the "Don't call us if somebody kills you on a PvP server, we don't care" king.

As most others will tell you, griefing is decided by the server rules, the reason it is considered griefing in WoW is because they have a rule that says it does, some StarMade PvP servers have this rule as well, which is why its consider griefing to do it on those particular servers.

So leave them alone and find someone who does want to play with you.

Welcome to PvP.

I still find it funny that you are against the "If you don't like the community, leave" posters on the forums, but that you do the same thing in game. "If you don't like being spawn camped, leave". You're all for "I can voice my opinion however I want" here, but in game its "My way or get out".

Oh spare me the false equivalency

"If you don't like being spawn camped, leave" is blatant strawman to my statement, I was mentioning that PvE players have the option to play on a PvE server if they do not like PvP, if a PvE player in spite of having options avaliable that will cater to their preffered playstyle better choses to play on a PvP server, then they are just as much fair game as a PvP player.

Again, forcing people into PvP is a bad move, IMO. But the basic idea can be tweaked.

Eddy, I get that you are concered about the PvE4Lyfe playtyle being threatened by people who want to be able to PvP on PvP servers, nobody is being "forced" into PvP by any of the suggestions discussed here.

If you want to make the argument that we should not "force players into PvP" then you are being forced into PvP the minute you join a PvP server, does that mean we should make all servers PvE?

If you, or any other PvE player wants to play on a server where you are not concered about being attacked, go play on a PvE server, or better yet create your own.

But if you want to PvP, then don't expect players to "not force you into encounters with them"

The idea that PvP should be balanced around PvE players who don't even play multiplayer 99% of the time is a stupid idea as a whole. PvP should be balanced around PvP for PvPers, if someone does not like PvP then rather then playing on a PvP server, the option is there to play on a PvE server that is literaly desgiend for their playstyle, if you don't like the current options, make your own PvE server, it isnt hard.

One way of encouraging expansion may be addition of NPC crew. And you could also tie Faction Points to them. Total number of your faction points determines how many NPCs are willing to work for you at once and number of your bases could determine the maximum amount of FP you could hold.

Unfortunately, this game punishes you for expanding by causing you to be at a net loss for faction points if you expand, NPC crew in this way would make the problem worse.

 

[Zoolimar]

Unfortunately, this game punishes you for expanding by causing you to be at a net loss for faction points if you expand, NPC crew in this way would make the problem worse.

Change it. Players should get FP for expanding. A small undeveloped base won't get you much if anything, but one with crew quarters, processing factories and docking bays should give you enough to be able to hire a couple of NPCs to man the miners for it. Over time established bases will bring more FP until their maximum(decided by server admins) is filled.

It should go something like this:
1. Player/Players establish homebase and start building it up while mining the asteroids themselves.
2. They get FP for their base over time and for making it have more different systems that they use.
3. They hire NPC crew that are given miners and simple tasks that could be done by AI.
4. Players start checking other sectors in their system to establish the next base.
5. They develop second, third and other bases until they cover all the sectors/asteroid fields that they want to cover.
6. Players start expanding into other systems.

Now step 5 could be skipped if platers don't want pirates to send really big raiding parties into their system and move to other systems immediately.

 

[Edymnion]

The idea that PvP should be balanced around PvE players who don't even play multiplayer 99% of the time is a stupid idea as a whole. PvP should be balanced around PvP for PvPers, if someone does not like PvP then rather then playing on a PvP server, the option is there to play on a PvE server that is literaly desgiend for their playstyle, if you don't like the current options, make your own PvE server, it isnt hard.

By your own admission the PvP'ers don't want to PvP 90% of the time, and that 99% of the time its just spawn camping and newb griefing. If we use that logic, we shouldn't be trying to balance around open world PvP either, we should be balancing around sitting outside of a base and not moving.

 

[Dire Venom]

Some good discussion here,
My main beef with expanding (particualy on pvp servers) is that anything not docked to your homebase can and will be destroyed.
Players can easily abuse the AI and can wait (and see when) you go offline. There will always be a player bigger than you 99% of the time.
They can easily snipe from max range, cloak/jump to avoid fire if they start taking hits and whittle down and destroy all of your stations.
There is 0 point wasting resources on bases that will be destroyed instead of just building a bigger and bigger titan.
If they want to be a dick they can spawn camp you.
There is 0 counterplay and fun (for me) in doing this imo.

 

[GDPR 302420]

By your own admission the PvP'ers don't want to PvP 90% of the time, and that 99% of the time its just spawn camping and newb griefing. If we use that logic, we shouldn't be trying to balance around open world PvP either, we should be balancing around sitting outside of a base and not moving.

DAMN EDDY! BACK AT IT AGAIN WITH THE FALSE EQUIVALENCY


Difference is that PvPers are doing such actions (which btw is not griefing unless the server rules say otherwise) is they do it because homebases allow anyone, PvPers included to kill player interaction and only undock when its conveniant for them. They WILL HAPPILY take actual fights when they come, but current game mechanics make this rare, thus they are left with no other option (worth mentioning that said fights do happen, it just that it only makes up 1%)


HOWEVER with PvE players they have a choice, its called "Make a PvE server" or "Join an existing one" they have a choice while PvPers do it (I did propose this awhile back to allow PvPers more choice)

Try again Eddy

 

[Snowtiger256]

HOWEVER with PvE players they have a choice, its called "Make a PvE server" or "Join an existing one" they have a choice while PvPers do it (I did propose this awhile back to allow PvPers more choice)

So your 2c boils down to the fact thet you want non-PVP folk off PVP servers, so you can run around ganking noobs and camping HB's without anyone getting upset and crying about it? :D

 

[MeRobo]

So your 2c boils down to the fact thet you want non-PVP folk off PVP servers, so you can run around ganking noobs and camping HB's without anyone getting upset and crying about it?

Who'd want non-PVPers on PVP servers in the first place? I mean, I don't want hockey players on a football field either. Especially no hockey players wondering how the football players could dare to play football on a football field.

 

[GDPR 302420]

So your 2c boils down to the fact thet you want non-PVP folk off PVP servers, so you can run around ganking noobs and camping HB's without anyone getting upset and crying about it? :D

My 2c boils down to "The current state of PvP fukin sucks because there is no reason to even undock from your shitty HB let alone expand"

My response to Eddy (and your post) boils down to "Why are players who are not interested in PvP playing on PvP servers in the first place?"

:thonking:
[doublepost=1507212308,1507212086][/doublepost]This seems to be a common theme with the PvE4Lyfe playerbase of this game.

You see rather then going to a PvE server, they instead go onto PvP servers and demand the admins cater to them at the PvP players expense. When this is applied in the context of suggestions, most of their arguments can be summarized with:

"I don't want to PvP but I want to play on PvP servers so I demand the developers/server owners/whoever balance all PvP around those who do not want to participate in the first place"

Just go to a PvE server, or make your own.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Just go to a PvE server, or make your own.

The Sentinel Alliance's Public Server - All Welcome

 

[Batavium]

So your 2c boils down to the fact thet you want non-PVP folk off PVP servers, so you can run around ganking noobs and camping HB's without anyone getting upset and crying about it? :D

You got it all wrong. StarMade is a game of hide and seek. It is just that some players do not ever want to be found. Off course we are going to laugh ourselves silly when they end up getting "tagged". It is only normal that new players get tagged more often. We DO hope that they learn and adept from the experience. Protected spawn and other server perks added by an admin can soften the impact.

I know many none combat players who can enjoy the game even when mixed with well trained PvPers. It is just that you never hear from them as they can deal with it just fine.

If you are unwilling to use the game mechanics to hide yourself away. Until you can tag back on a regular StarMade server.

Then you need to find a server that removes the tag from the seek. There are plenty of none combat servers in the server list.

And just my two cents. There is nothing wrong with today’s StarMades PvP. It is just that there are so few StarMade players in general. That is the only reason PvP is currently at a low tide just like everything else.

In case of hacks and cheats that is something for the devs to eliminate. Server owners/admins who have knowledge of these should act harshly on anyone caught using them. Should such admins be absent from your current server or if you are the victim of this on a server without active admins then play on another server.

 

[Edymnion]

My response to Eddy (and your post) boils down to "Why are players who are not interested in PvP playing on PvP servers in the first place?"

Because there are no PvE servers that don't have mind-bendingly stupid changes or rules like "No Blueprints" or "AI difficulty is turned so low even a lock-on missile can't hit anything" or "Mining bonus is 100x".

Its either be on a PvP server, or don't be on a server at all.

HOWEVER with PvE players they have a choice, its called "Make a PvE server" or "Join an existing one" they have a choice while PvPers do it (I did propose this awhile back to allow PvPers more choice)

"I will force you to play my way. Like it, or GTFO."

Gotcha.

Do you really want to keep doing this, or can we get back on topic?

 

[GDPR 302420]

Because there are no PvE servers that don't have mind-bendingly stupid changes or rules like "No Blueprints" or "AI difficulty is turned so low even a lock-on missile can't hit anything" or "Mining bonus is 100x".

Its either be on a PvP server, or don't be on a server at all.

Then why don't you just be the change you want to see?

"I will force you to play my way. Like it, or GTFO."

I am not the one who is telling people how to play, the server owners of PvP servers are telling people how NOT to play and PvPers are playing within the limits (unless you are Vaygr, because exploits)

This isnt an issue with PvE4Lyfe players being told how to play, this is an issue of PvE4Lyfe players not liking being the victim/target of PvP on PvP servers, so they demmand Schine and server owners balance PvP around players who have no intention of PvPing in the first place.

Let me give you an example of what happens when games balance PvP around PvE whims.

Spoiler: EVE Online devs nerf (super)carrier DPS, causing them have less PvP capability then a Battleship.... Because "PvE Balance"

The carrier nerf is just too much • r/Eve
Product Management at CCP needs change in gamer direction and attitude. • r/Eve

Do you really want to keep doing this, or can we get back on topic?

This is on topic Eddy, I am telling you why PvE should not be considered at all when balancing PvP playstyles. PvE players have no intention of PvPing in the first place, PvP balance needs to be made for PvPers, not PvErs like yourself.

 

[Snowtiger256]

If you guys want to encourage PVP on a server, with no chance of random players being victimized, why don't you take your own advice and maybe create a PVP server with a Whitelist, so random people cannot just log in freely, get blown to pieces, get miffed and ragequit. Sure, it would take a little bit of effort and skill to do, but it would make sure that non-PVP oriented players stay off the server and don't end up spoiling your fun. This would also ensure that anyone on the whitelist will at least know the basics of PVP, and have an open mind about participating in fights and faction wars.

You can really affect who lives on a server by restricting access to only those people who you actually want to be a part of the server community. If a server is catering to a specific style of play, the community on it will play together better and function more smoothly. If you don't want certain people on your server, then try and make sure they won't be able to just log in and play on your server. There are a few examples on this (like CBS and other build servers), so it clearly is just a matter of tailoring a server to fit the way you want to play.

If you insist on having a totally open server, you should be ready to accept that not everyone wants to do PVP, or is skilled at it. People are different and we all have our likes and dislikes, and sometimes we don't see eye-to-eye with things. If someone refuses to join your fun and decides to turtle in his HB every time you come around in your battle machine, then give him what he wants and move along. Usually, there are other targets to shoot at, who might even enjoy a bit of a scuffle if given the chance.

 

[Reilly Reese]

One problemo, PvPers don't mind shooting noobs who are PvE.

PvE on the other hand apparently need to change how PvP works just to feel better about getting killed when they log onto the wrong server and it says "PvP" in the server name.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Kinda on you guys to take initiative and not go where you know you can die.

 

[jorgekorke]

I've read some things here and I can't help but share a personal report...
It is true that some people do shoot newbies and do spawncamp for the sake of it, but honestly, this kind of people are the one of the few reasons that I did have fun in game, especially in 2014 when I had a small faction that eventually fought against that kind of player.

It gave me a purpose, a interaction, but it all ended once the BP update came and ultra-gigantism became a thing. But that's a tale for another day...

 

[GDPR 302420]

If you guys want to encourage PVP on a server, with no chance of random players being victimized, why don't you take your own advice and maybe create a PVP server with a Whitelist, so random people cannot just log in freely, get blown to pieces, get miffed and ragequit.

The PvE players are the ones joining PvP servers and demmanding the developers/server admins/whoever change the game/server to cater to them at the PvP players expense, not the other way around.

Fact of the matter is, PvE servers are avaliable, last time I check The Sentinal Alliance is still a thing, but if you are like Eddy and are not satisfied with the avaliable PvE servers, you can easily create your own.

If a PvE player wants to join a PvP server, thats fine, but that player needs to understand that this isnt a PvE server, so do not expect people to "Leave you alone" or "Let you PvE" just because of your own wants for a server that is not catering to you. If a PvE player isnt happy with that, then they are welcome to join a PvE server that specificly caters to them rather then a PvP server that caters to PvPers or they can create their own.

 

[StormWing0]

One thing that'd help PvPers is a way to automate mining in unloaded sectors. That way they can have their shipyard on full auto building ships while their miners bring home the resources and than the PvPers can go out and murder each other.

 

[Ithirahad]

One thing that'd help PvPers is a way to automate mining in unloaded sectors. That way they can have their shipyard on full auto building ships while their miners bring home the resources and than the PvPers can go out and murder each other.

...Except the full-auto mining would not be invincible, and other PvPers could attack it, meaning defense fleets would need to be assigned to those sectors, which would be neat... however that requires at least an escort command for fleets in addition to the automated mining.


(yes, AI is currently dumb, ha, ha, I get it; AI is due for a revamp and that revamp was probably delayed by the systems update. Schine gets it too.)

 

[GDPR 302420]

One thing that'd help PvPers is a way to automate mining in unloaded sectors. That way they can have their shipyard on full auto building ships while their miners bring home the resources and than the PvPers can go out and murder each other.

Unloaded combat or at least some way of indirectly attacking is absolutely needed imo