My two cents on encouraging PvP conflict in a stagnant universe

[GDPR 302420]

This is a part-suggestion part-discussion thread. I wish to encourage users to brainstorm my ideas or propose their own spin on it. Constructive arguments are allowed and encouraged, off topic or non-constructive replies will be reported to moderation.


Disclaimer: The content of this suggestion is entirely based on published developer plans and public information regarding development. The contents of this document do not take into consideration any non-public information such as internal development documents, unpublished planned updates/features and/or CIR internal discussion that are not published in accordance with NDAs signed by council members.


Well here we go again, anothe RedAlert Suggestion™


This suggestion will talk about the current problems with universe, lack of conflict drivers for PvP and lack of variety within the universe.

TL:DR Rather then previous suggestions of splitting resources into localised areas, certain regions of space have unique "quirks" that are not required for PvP but give advantages to whoever controls and/or makes use of these quirks, controlling another quirk of another empire as well as your own would be a perfect conflict driver.


So whats the current issue with the universe and PvP?

There is no reason to fight in PvP other than bragging rights, PvP is high risk low reward which turns a lot of players off it and would rather turtle in their homebases.

So why not split resources into localised areas?

This has been the communities opinion for awhile, I think it will not work, allow me to explain why.

Splitting certain resources essentialy grinds production of warships to a halt, one faction controls the area with the all the shield making materials, so they can make a lot of shields but not much else, in a sense no faction can actually go to war without taking someone elses resource area, but nobody can take someone elses resource area without building ships which require the control of resources that cannot be obtained without ships.

A never ending paradox that puts a halt on all PvP.

So what is the solution then?

I belive the solution is not with resources splitting, but rather an idea a "localsised quirk" system inspired by EVE Online nullsec.

So, lets make a comparrison to EVE, how it currently works there is areas of "null security space" or "nullsec" in these areas of nullsec, different "regions" split it up, generaly an alliance (or coalaltion) controls part of, or an entire region. Different regions give different "quirks"

EVE does not split tritanium from morphite, rather it gives access to certain "quirks" to the controllers of that region.

In one region, known as "Delve" resources are much more richer and mining yield im high, the alliance that controls delve has much more resources to build ships, in another region known as "Providence" ratting (the act of killing lots of NPC pirates for bounty money and possibily rare and expensive loot) is king, the region of Providence has much more ratting then normal, which means more rare loot and more money for whoever controls that region. Another region has a unique kind of "rat" unique to it, known as "Rogue Drones" these rats can yield unique components that can make highly advanced and valuables technoligies (in this case "Excavator Mining Drones" which have the highest mining yield per hour of any mining method in the game)

And EVE Online has the perfect conflict driver for this reason, Empires want to control the region of best mining (Delve) alongside their own region that gives them unique components from Rogue Drones.

In my opinion, StarMade could take a similar approach, to encourage conflict, certain "regions" of the galaxy can have unique features to them to where whoever controls them take reap the advantages, such as rare advanced tech from unique NPCs, become super rich because that region is a pirate haven with a lot of pirates with a lot of bounties or a region with a shittone more mining then anywhere else.

That to me is the perfect conflict driver.




So now that I have proposes my 2 cents, I want to know what you think? Perhaps you have a better idea or a spin on my own, I want this thread to server not only as a suggestion but also a means to brainstorm conflict drives in this game.

Questions? Comments? Smartass Remarks?

 

[Mortiferum]

Just mark out a sector that has more ores than the average, enable sector claiming for it (for mining bonus) but disable home base building.

You can see where this is going right?

People gonna fight for the mining "rights". Ratting doesnt work too well in this game because killing 10000 insanth is still 10000 insanths.

 

[Calhoun]

Splitting certain resources essentialy grinds production of warships to a halt, one faction controls the area with the all the shield making materials, so they can make a lot of shields but not much else, in a sense no faction can actually go to war without taking someone elses resource area, but nobody can take someone elses resource area without building ships which require the control of resources that cannot be obtained without ships.

Trading could overcome this, Which might make things interesting.

 

[The Judge]

Maybe not taking 6 hours of manually mining (without Exploiting) might do it too.

 

[Extholious]

you know those times when you want to add something to a conversation but dont know how to phrase it, im having one of those now (revolves around discusing planetside 2's sectors)

 

[alterintel]

I don't understand this big "popular" push for PVP. I have so much more fun with StarMade when people just leave me alone. I think the current plan of unequal resource distribution is a perfect idea. To encourage PVP (if one were inclined to do so) would be to allow the recycling of salvaged blocks to get the resources lacking in your own territory.

 

[Mr. Morague]

If the currently planned resource distribution is implemented, I'd prefer to have the shop block's interface cleaned up/updated in the update or shortly after.

If the proposed system is implemented, then I believe there should be at least pairs of each quirk in each galaxy on opposing sides, so as to prevent a single faction being able to hold a monopoly over them.

 

[Reilly Reese]

I think the regional bonuses are a good idea. They not only promote PvP but also exploration just as much as regional resource exclusivity.

 

[Zyrr]

Great suggestion. Allows all factions to be able to have what they need as well as randomly designating zones of the galaxy to be more valuable, without the braindead simple "well just add better asteroids there xdd". This system can be applied to other effects for regions to provide more than just industrial benefits, and can apply drawbacks to specific systems, creating an intricate and interlinking system to further encourage exploration, combat, mining and empire building.

I don't understand this big "popular" push for PVP. I have so much more fun with StarMade when people just leave me alone. I think the current plan of unequal resource distribution is a perfect idea. To encourage PVP (if one were inclined to do so) would be to allow the recycling of salvaged blocks to get the resources lacking in your own territory.

Maybe it's because people like to do PVP and StarMade's gameplay currently does not encourage PVP.

You know, it's really starting to blow my mind how the PVE players come out of the woodworks whenever someone mentions PVP. It's just very strange.

 

[Nickizzy]

It still would be good to have resource distribution mechanics, to make factions specialize in ship building, say a much broader distribution where one half the galaxy has more ferkenteen and the other more serisine and shieldy stuff. Not a system where x is found only in this system clump, or y is impossible to find except for a few places, but simply quantity changes that are randomly generated at universe reset.

Spoiler: Generator Idea

The galaxy is layed out in a 3D grid, and each asteroid type (AT) has 100 percents of resource density to spread across it. Each AT gets 3-8 "Tips" where 33-12.5 density points are spent, +/- 50%. The Tips are spread randomly across the galaxy for each AT.

Now you have random high value systems in a galaxy, and no ore anywhere else. In order to make every AT avalible everywhere, eacy Tip is spread through a sand-spreading system, idk how, maybe keep 2/7 put 1/7 in each touching system. It doesn't matter if theres already another AT there, and if there's more of your own, just add to it. This will make sloping piles and create a galaxy wide geography of different resources.

Certain bonuses from certain areas would be cool too, like capturing a certain system with x anomally would give your cannon weapons -10% energy useage because enhanced crystals or something.

 

[Crashmaster]

Imagine if you will a quasar-like body at the center of the galaxy that slowly spins in all axes and the astrophysical jets from its poles play across opposing areas of the galaxy. The sectors in the paths of the jets are the ones given modifications.

The moving area of effect would provide more dynamics IMO. The paths of the cones of effect should be forecastable through enough observation, intelligence and/or effort.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I think uneven resource distribution is fine and the issue with resource access can easily be addressed wih multiple recipes for the same product.

Example, allow the creation of shields using different combinations of raw resources.

 

[Reilly Reese]

I think uneven resource distribution is fine and the issue with resource access can easily be addressed wih multiple recipes for the same product.

Example, allow the creation of shields using different combinations of raw resources.

That could plausibly make resource distribution pointless. There's a lot less variables concerning balance with Red's proposed plan.

 

[GDPR 302420]

Imagine if you will a quasar-like body at the center of the galaxy that slowly spins in all axes and the astrophysical jets from its poles play across opposing areas of the galaxy. The sectors in the paths of the jets are the ones given modifications.

The moving area of effect would provide more dynamics IMO. The paths of the cones of effect should be forecastable through enough observation, intelligence and/or effort.

I suppose that as an idea for one kind of qurik rather the whole "quirk" system, but from a programming presective, could it be done?

If it can, then that could be done as one kind of qurik, certain "strange appearences" that can be "harvested" for "unique goods"
[doublepost=1504007820,1504007134][/doublepost]

I don't understand this big "popular" push for PVP. I have so much more fun with StarMade when people just leave me alone. I think the current plan of unequal resource distribution is a perfect idea. To encourage PVP (if one were inclined to do so) would be to allow the recycling of salvaged blocks to get the resources lacking in your own territory.

Almost every single populated server in StarMade is PvP, whenever people like it or not, PvP is undoubtably the most popular gamemode in the multiplayer community.

Also, I think Zyrr hit the nail on the head, why are those not interested in PvP sticking their nose into PvP as if their opinion matters? Not trying to sound like I am attacking you or anything (you are certanly not the only one guilty of this) but..

I don't understand this big "popular" wave of PvE4Lyfe players who want to try and change the way a game mechanic they have no intention of participating in works, assuming they even have a clue of what they are talking about (99% of all the PvE4Lyfe players who talk about PvP are clueless)

Maybe not taking 6 hours of manually mining (without Exploiting) might do it too.

Mining definelty needs a rework, when I mine, it feels like a chore more than a game, but imho I do think resources in general need to be more sparse, its too easy to mine up a 700k titan on a "standard" config in less then an hour or two, that in my opinion is a problem.

But mining does need a rework to feel like its less of a grinding job, but I do think it needs to take longer to farm up 700k titans then it does atm.

Trading could overcome this, Which might make things interesting.

Nobody wants to trade, its a dynamic that a lot of serversiders and some forumside factions follow, they all want to be leaders of empires that launch a conquest on all of StarMade, they see traders as easy targets, which is why the only "trading" is with NPCs and stick shops.

That isnt something game mechanics can solve, thats just the players.

Just mark out a sector that has more ores than the average, enable sector claiming for it (for mining bonus) but disable home base building.

Won't work, factions (that don't use exploits to get everything they have on a server) can do fine without leaving their system, why would they go to one with more then usual when they can do just fine with what they have.

All these "capture point" style mechanics do is give a means for factions to get bragging rights from destruction of others, LvDs capture points work so well because it has been shown to draw out players who want fights, most players with half a clue will know that they can get more resources then gained from capture points in a shorter time with less resources.

 

[Mortiferum]

All these "capture point" style mechanics do is give a means for factions to get bragging rights from destruction of others, LvDs capture points work so well because it has been shown to draw out players who want fights, most players with half a clue will know that they can get more resources then gained from capture points in a shorter time with less resources.

Nothing short of making homebases vulnerable would drag the dedicated turtles out of their base.

 

[GDPR 302420]

Nothing short of making homebases vulnerable would drag the dedicated turtles out of their base.

Faction Infastructure and Homebase Invulnerability: A solution to permanent turtling

Also, the whole point of this thread is to discuss means of encouraging people do undock and hold territory in addition to taking other territory, Morti pls.

Dedicated turtlers need to go play on PvE servers as far as I am concerned, they contribute nothing to PvP and are better off on CBS building whatever ships they are building on their homebase on a PvP server where it sits there never to be undocked.

 

[alterintel]

RedAlert_007 you completely overlooked the recycling of blocks in my response. You don't think this would work in in of itself? Not only do you defeat an enemy by you get salvage rights, and basically get all or most of the resources used to make the ships you just defeated.

 

[Mortiferum]

Faction Infastructure and Homebase Invulnerability: A solution to permanent turtling

Also, the whole point of this thread is to discuss means of encouraging people do undock and hold territory in addition to taking other territory, Morti pls.

Dedicated turtlers need to go play on PvE servers as far as I am concerned, they contribute nothing to PvP and are better off on CBS building whatever ships they are building on their homebase on a PvP server where it sits there never to be undocked.

Well I am just stating the obvious.

For the hard core turtles no amount of incentives will make them move an inch, maybe except moving their home base one sector further away from the sun. Your idea is probably the only thing that would come close to working.

Resource incentives will drag out the opportunistic PvPers.

 

[Ithirahad]

Splitting certain resources essentialy grinds production of warships to a halt, one faction controls the area with the all the shield making materials, so they can make a lot of shields but not much else, in a sense no faction can actually go to war without taking someone elses resource area, but nobody can take someone elses resource area without building ships which require the control of resources that cannot be obtained without ships.

It probably wouldn't be balanced that way. Between the trade system and reasonably-balanced resource distribution, building ships should be largely possible wherever. Just easier to produce and sell certain things in certain places. Fairly certain that your idea of 'quirks' that make certain regions better for certain resources or activities is planned already in some form.

As for turtling and stagnation, that would end if stations/planets got buffed and infrastructure outside the homebase became a requirement for the normal running of a faction. (no, I don't mean losing homebase invulnerability if your other stations are destroyed.)

 

[GDPR 302420]

Resource incentives will drag out the opportunistic PvPers.

Why would they? Factions do a good job surviving on just whats in their home system already.

RedAlert_007 you completely overlooked the recycling of blocks in my response. You don't think this would work in in of itself? Not only do you defeat an enemy by you get salvage rights, and basically get all or most of the resources used to make the ships you just defeated.

There is a big difference between a reward for undocking an an incentive to undock in the first place.

Your recycling idea is a reward, but it isn't enough of a reward to be an incentive, its safer, quicker and more efficient to just mine in your home system if you want resources.