Suggestion for missile slave on beams and cannons

[Star-Boy]

Very few people use missile slaves on their cannons and beams because the spread makes them too inaccurate to be useful except at point blank range. I suggest changing them so cannons/beams with a missile slave split their damage into 9 beams/shots regardless of the ratio and instead the ratio of primary:secondary is used to change the angle of the spread. This way cannons and beams with a missile slave would be like a hose with an adjustable nozzle. People who want a wide spray could use 10% and people who want a tight jet can use 100%.

 

[NaStral]

This would be nice. In addition, the beam, projectile outputs need to be randomized so it isn't a set path every time like it currently is. This would help immensely for creating a proper shotgun style effect. Without this randomization it's useless.

 

[Coyote27]

Posting in support - I like the conceptual idea of a shotgun weapon, it just feels badly implemented at present but it could be done well.

 

[Star-Boy]

Posting in support - I like the conceptual idea of a shotgun weapon, it just feels badly implemented at present but it could be done well.

The good thing about my idea is if you like the current spread you can still have it. If you want more or less spread you could have that too. The only thing you'd lose is the ability to have 4-5 beams with ~50% support but who uses that anyways?

 

[Cluwne]

How 'bout this: we ditch the retarded "split into n shots" mechanic and instead make it actually somewhat useful AoE-oriented weapon combo?
It's SPACE, for crying out loud. Even 1° over large distances causes mind-boggling inaccuracy, that scattershot ain't hitting jack.

So the revised combinations would be:

Cannon: a nice dense orb of plasma or any other dangerous substance.
It starts out dense and damaging but dissipates over distance, growing bigger but weaker. On the flipside it's piss-easy to hit anything with that kind of projectile. Plus it adds a more than a generous amount of damage, which dissipation effortlessly balances out. Less punch-through, more innate explosion.
Hope you like bullet hell.

Beam: flamethrowers are so old school. High-power energy armaments are all the rage these days.
Turning lasers into floodlights might not sound like a top-notch idea but what if they could adjust the cone width to the optimal frying intensity (read: damage) you calibrated them to?
Cut a perfect round hole through other guy's ship. You know you want to.

Pulse: because there should be at least one good reason to use Pulse as primary.
Fires an expanding wave. Like any self-respecting blastwave it grows weaker over distance, but boy oh boy does it hit everything in it's path of destruction.
Despite it being Pulse, the range is actually pretty decent. Just don't expect to deal significant damage at such distances.

​

Missiles can stay the same, except they're now lock-on and even more missiles are fired. Great for overwhelming PDs.

 

[diremage]

The issue with long-range pulse IIRC is that it is a very computationally expensive thing at even relatively short ranges. Since the ellipsoid builder uses those same computations you can actually see how long it would take to calculate a pulse shot at a given range -- try plugging 100, 500, and 1000 into the ellipsoid builder and see how much it chugs.

Can be fixed by making pulse a directional weapon -- it's a lot cheaper to check say a 5 degree arc of sphere than it is to check everything in a full sphere.

I actually prefer the idea of making beam and cannon / missile lock-on weapons, but I understand some people aren't using potato laptops with touchpads and can actually hit things, so that may not be everyones' cup of tea.

 

[Coyote27]

If we're talking about missiles and lock-on, I'd like to see the unslaved missile be a lock-on weapon as well - it might get some use that way. As it is, missile/cannon is much more practical as a dumbfire rocket due to the travel speed.

 

[sayerulz]

How 'bout this: we ditch the retarded "split into n shots" mechanic and instead make it actually somewhat useful AoE-oriented weapon combo?
It's SPACE, for crying out loud. Even 1° over large distances causes mind-boggling inaccuracy, that scattershot ain't hitting jack.

So the revised combinations would be:

Cannon: a nice dense orb of plasma or any other dangerous substance.
It starts out dense and damaging but dissipates over distance, growing bigger but weaker. On the flipside it's piss-easy to hit anything with that kind of projectile. Plus it adds a more than a generous amount of damage, which dissipation effortlessly balances out. Less punch-through, more innate explosion.
Hope you like bullet hell.

Beam: flamethrowers are so old school. High-power energy armaments are all the rage these days.
Turning lasers into floodlights might not sound like a top-notch idea but what if they could adjust the cone width to the optimal frying intensity (read: damage) you calibrated them to?
Cut a perfect round hole through other guy's ship. You know you want to.

Pulse: because there should be at least one good reason to use Pulse as primary.
Fires an expanding wave. Like any self-respecting blastwave it grows weaker over distance, but boy oh boy does it hit everything in it's path of destruction.
Despite it being Pulse, the range is actually pretty decent. Just don't expect to deal significant damage at such distances.

​

Missiles can stay the same, except they're now lock-on and even more missiles are fired. Great for overwhelming PDs.

Oh yea, that sounds completely balanced. Welcome to all small ships being made instantly useless by weapons that hit everything, and weapons that fire eight quadrillion missiles crashing the server every five seconds.

 

[Cluwne]

Nice reading comprehension there smartass.

I did say that the farther projectile/wave travels, the weaker it gets, didn't I? I believe did. And if we tweak the formula for this damage reduction with range we can get waves that shred everything in a small cone point blank but barely scratch unshielded regular armor at maximum range.
And then we factor in that said damage applies to the parts of the ship that took the hit, which means smaller ships would receive less damage in total. Sounds balanced better than anything Schine would do.
And ironically enough, it is actually skewed towards smaller ships.

all small ships being made instantly useless by weapons that hit everything

You could say the very same thing about beams, since they hit instantly and are 100% accurate at any distance, especially the Beam+Beam beam with it's impressive range.

weapons that fire eight quadrillion missiles crashing the server every five seconds

If you had strained the little ganglia you use as a brain a bit more you would have remembered the recent b̶u̶g̶ ̶a̶d̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n fixes that improved missile performance, making possible a lightshow that would put 4th of July to shame, without the server itself going up in flames.

Welcome to all small ships being made instantly useless

Now, small ships aren't very useful nowadays either so that argument is flying out the airlock too.
Also the phrase lost it's edge since people scream this shit every time Schine does more than change a few pixels of some texture.
Which only happens once a year at best. *cough*power update when?*cough*

2/10 made me reply. Next time use a better bait.

 

[sayerulz]

I'm not even going to dignify that with a proper response, as it's so very typical of you.

You make a poorly thought out suggestion -> someone points out it's flaws -> you start insulting them and making nonsensical claims -> return to step two.

 

[The_Owl]

If you had strained the little ganglia you use as a brain a bit more you would have remembered the recent b̶u̶g̶ ̶a̶d̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n fixes that improved missile performance, making possible a lightshow that would put 4th of July to shame, without the server itself going up in flames.

TIL that improving missile performance means you should spam servers with more missiles.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I think the spread should be adjustable. Real life shotguns can use what is called a "choke" to tighten the spread of pellets for more focused damage at close range and a longer overall range before the spread becomes too wide to effectively hit the target.

This technology is older than anyone on this forum. There's no reason that it can't be adapted for spacecraft use.

 

[Nickizzy]

I think the spread should be adjustable. Real life shotguns can use what is called a "choke" to tighten the spread of pellets for more focused damage at close range and a longer overall range before the spread becomes too wide to effectively hit the target.

This technology is older than anyone on this forum. There's no reason that it can't be adapted for spacecraft use.

Do they have two charges, one that launches it and one that corrects the angle? Or is it just a smaller angle?

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

If I Recall Correctly, the choke on a shotgun is a matter of barrel shaping, though it could be "fiddled with" by using longer or shorter than normal shells. (and thus, more or less gunpowder)

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Do they have two charges, one that launches it and one that corrects the angle? Or is it just a smaller angle?

Actually, technically all bullets have this. It's a single shell filled with a powder charge which is detonated by a small explosive called a "primer". "Wadding" is packed into the shell to allow the powder to expand as it burns (so the projectiles and the brass don't deform and potentially blow up the gun) and then the projectiles themselves. Average spread from an 18 inch shotgun barrel is about 1 inch for every yard the projectiles travel. Birdshot (numerous tiny BBs) tends to spread faster, the further it gets from the barrel; creating a literal cloud of lead. Buckshot (8-12 mid sized BBs) tends to hold formation for a bit longer but it too spreads apart, as it gets further from the barrel.

If I Recall Correctly, the choke on a shotgun is a matter of barrel shaping, though it could be "fiddled with" by using longer or shorter than normal shells. (and thus, more or less gunpowder)

Chokes can be fixed, removable or adjustable depending on the type of firearm being used. They can be built into the barrel like a duck hunter's shotgun or they can added to special purpose or tactical shotguns. Also; while shell length can affect spread, barrel length and choke tend to have much more effect on spread than shell length.

 

[boomchacle]

Nice reading comprehension there smartass.

I did say that the farther projectile/wave travels, the weaker it gets, didn't I? I believe did. And if we tweak the formula for this damage reduction with range we can get waves that shred everything in a small cone point blank but barely scratch unshielded regular armor at maximum range.
And then we factor in that said damage applies to the parts of the ship that took the hit, which means smaller ships would receive less damage in total. Sounds balanced better than anything Schine would do.
And ironically enough, it is actually skewed towards smaller ships.

You could say the very same thing about beams, since they hit instantly and are 100% accurate at any distance, especially the Beam+Beam beam with it's impressive range.

If you had strained the little ganglia you use as a brain a bit more you would have remembered the recent b̶u̶g̶ ̶a̶d̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n fixes that improved missile performance, making possible a lightshow that would put 4th of July to shame, without the server itself going up in flames.

Now, small ships aren't very useful nowadays either so that argument is flying out the airlock too.
Also the phrase lost it's edge since people scream this shit every time Schine does more than change a few pixels of some texture.
Which only happens once a year at best. *cough*power update when?*cough*

2/10 made me reply. Next time use a better bait.

this would be a cool addition but coding it in would be a pain

 

[DrTarDIS]

I agree it needs to change. I think it should change to split after the first impact in both cases.

Eg block 1 takes all the normal damage of the system, and Pen1 damage is spread to the 9 blocks behind that, pen2 to the 23 blocks behind that, etc. % would determine how much penetration damage was split off of the "straight" path a normal cannon round would induce.

A glaser round of sorts.

Great vs single-block-thick armor, horrible vs anything layered or spaced.

 

[Lucidess]

If you look at the BlockBehaviorConfig.xml you will find that beam slaves are not getting any love, and are pretty much the same as Cannon slaves. I could suggest Pulse to be something else entirely but what's the point if the dev won't change it.

To be honest I hope the devs keeps them as rigid and boring as possible so my server looks better with it's custom weapon settings that make every slave either useful or more functional than it was.

 

[GDPR 302420]

No.

"Shotgun" style weapons are a stupid idea for several reasons, especialy with the looming power update.

• Area saturation weapons would be overpowered with the new power update, the new "reactor HP" system localises block HP into a small area which needs to be found using information warfare, but if your weapon can hit everywhere on the entire ship, it removes the need for information warfare and also makes the "reactor switching" method of combating reactor HQ loss useless as other reactors would be damaged. This would be made even worse if Dr. Whammy gets his way, as adjusting the spread would allow turning an area saturation weapon into a focused death beam when its conveniant, which is stupid to even suggest.

• Rendering lag for beams and cannons is already bad enough, lets not make it worse but allowing more then one projectile per output

 

[madman Captain]

No.

"Shotgun" style weapons are a stupid idea for several reasons, especialy with the looming power update.

• Area saturation weapons would be overpowered with the new power update, the new "reactor HP" system localises block HP into a small area which needs to be found using information warfare, but if your weapon can hit everywhere on the entire ship, it removes the need for information warfare and also makes the "reactor switching" method of combating reactor HQ loss useless as other reactors would be damaged. This would be made even worse if Dr. Whammy gets his way, as adjusting the spread would allow turning an area saturation weapon into a focused death beam when its conveniant, which is stupid to even suggest.

• Rendering lag for beams and cannons is already bad enough, lets not make it worse but allowing more then one projectile per output

You can bring the exact same aguments against every missile or pulse layout (cause AoE), rapid fire layout (cause in combat you spread countless bullets over your enemy) or the concept of weapon waffeling (wich is a shotgun without spread)