Change power all you like, it wont help us.

[Gasboy]

-snip-

Everything you suggest can be done by server admins right now in StarMade. Schine has even provided tools/server settings to:

1) limit resources (turn off asteroid spawning, make asteroids smaller, make asteroids less populous)

2) limit space

3) you can force people to expand by limiting resources, or by requiring more territory taken in order to maintain enough faction points to keep your systems/stations. Several PvP servers use this method.

4) You can turn off the homebase protection, or as in the above example, force people to expand in order to gain faction points. Run out of faction points, kiss your home base protection goodbye. Several PvP servers use this method.

So your purposes for combat are relatively easy to set in motion. Schine has given us the tools, so it's on the server admins to use them.

As I stated before.

 

[Gasboy]

Gasboy I think you're assuming I never looked at the configuration files.

2) Noooooooooooop, unless i am terrible wrong you can not limit the size of the universe at the current starmade versión[IF i am wrong please write here a "how to"]

3) Doing that you are not forcing people to expand, only to change the claimed sector or claim a sector while you are going to mine.[The rest of time you do not need get a sector claimed, and there are other options at those server type better than homebases to settle.]

4)There are other ways to get a "secure" home, like make a "fakebase" over an advance shop or use an asteroid as "stealth base".

And on servers that eliminate protection or directly place negative faction points, to cause people to expand, you only are going to generate industrial levels of shit and negativity at those servers. [I remember the last one that had those mechanics, it was without players because a single faction of a single player destroyed the other factions] [Edit: People must have the need to control something without losing everything.]

Or I have not been able to explain myself correctly or you have not understood my point about pvp, please re-read what I put you in, if you still thinking that you are right in your last participation, i will try to put it another way so that the difference is understood [Pvp must not generate shit in other words, for that needs a purpose].

2) "Players may not expand past the original galaxy." <== A rule I've seen on a number of servers. Does that not limit the playable area somewhat? As I stated before, it's on the server admin and how much 'work' they want to do to encourage PvP. EDIT: Also, you could change sector size to something huge, making it much harder to expand outside of the galaxy. Meaning more people stay inside the original galaxy.

3) Sigh. Are you really that short sighted? In order to hold onto a homebase as I have described, you need to have faction points. By making it so that you only get faction points by TAKING and HOLDING territory, you encourage people to expand AND fight to retain already captured territories. If you lose territory, you lose a chunk of faction points. If your faction points drop below a certain point, your homebase loses it's protection. Whatever you can't set up with the server configuration options, you require an admin to handle. It's doable.

4) Obviously you cover this in your server rules. It's a non-issue.

 

[Scypio]

I mean, I've always thought the purpose of PvP was to beat the other guy/team. Like any other multiplayer PvP game.

Pure pvp, yes, but the game need actual mechanics to keep the challenge and not simply beat the other guy. Otherwise you can simply organize a tournament evey month for examples, wich isn't something as fun as a war. Please note the difference between a fair fight with similar ships, basically a tournament, and a real war between faction, while you search for allies, hide your bases/fleets do dirty attacks, attack low defended outpost and so on. Both things are different way to fight against players and while one is easy to do currently, it's more casual and not fun after a few time while the other is just impossible at the moment. The tournament isn't fun once you mastered the building technique in starmade, it's just a matter of how far you go into technology, abuses and let's not talk about bugs used in your own advantage. After that it's just luck when you shoot and a bit of precision, as flying your ship the right way doesn't need that much of a skill in starmade.
My conclusion is that fighting in starmade isn't fun as it is roughly resumed to simply build better than your opponent and use the building techniques wisely.

3) Sigh. Are you really that short sighted? In order to hold onto a homebase as I have described, you need to have faction points. By making it so that you only get faction points by TAKING and HOLDING territory, you encourage people to expand AND fight to retain already captured territories. If you lose territory, you lose a chunk of faction points. If your faction points drop below a certain point, your homebase loses it's protection. Whatever you can't set up with the server configuration options, you require an admin to handle. It's doable.

Faction points are gained with players, not holding territory, holding territy makes you loose faction point and you can't revert game mechanics by simply tweaking configs. Modding isn't admin's job to make mechanics useful.

2) "Players may not expand past the original galaxy." <== A rule I've seen on a number of servers. Does that not limit the playable area somewhat? As I stated before, it's on the server admin and how much 'work' they want to do to encourage PvP.

Usually servers get this rule mostly for performance and not pvp reasons as it is a bit more tedious for servers to load systems with huges coordinates, wich is something that shouldn't be the case but well. Also, travelling to theses other galaxies is made with chain drives or jump specialized ships, wich is something that takes some efforts for servers. I will finally conclude with the fact that there is no possibility to prevent someone from going really really far if he want to.

 

[Gasboy]

Pure pvp, yes, but the game need actual mechanics to keep the challenge and not simply beat the other guy. Otherwise you can simply organize a tournament evey month for examples, wich isn't something as fun as a war. Please note the difference between a fair fight with similar ships, basically a tournament, and a real war between faction, while you search for allies, hide your bases/fleets do dirty attacks, attack low defended outpost and so on. Both things are different way to fight against players and while one is easy to do currently, it's more casual and not fun after a few time while the other is just impossible at the moment. The tournament isn't fun once you mastered the building technique in starmade, it's just a matter of how far you go into technology, abuses and let's not talk about bugs used in your own advantage. After that it's just luck when you shoot and a bit of precision, as flying your ship the right way doesn't need that much of a skill in starmade.
My conclusion is that fighting in starmade isn't fun as it is roughly resumed to simply build better than your opponent and use the building techniques wisely.


Faction points are gained with players, not holding territory, holding territy makes you loose faction point and you can't revert game mechanics by simply tweaking configs. Modding isn't admin's job to make mechanics useful.


Usually servers get this rule mostly for performance and not pvp reasons as it is a bit more tedious for servers to load systems with huges coordinates, wich is something that shouldn't be the case but well. Also, travelling to theses other galaxies is made with chain drives or jump specialized ships, wich is something that takes some efforts for servers. I will finally conclude with the fact that there is no possibility to prevent someone from going really really far if he want to.

Schine isn't going to force people to PvP, and as I have said constantly, it's on the server admins to encourage PvP. Look at Light vs Dark as an example.

As for faction points, look at how Elwyn Returnity does it, reverse faction points. It's possible to award or penalize differently. And yes, modding is an admin's job. Schine's not going to do it for you. Not sure if it's possible, but if it IS possible to manually reward or penalize people faction points, then you don't need a mod to do what I have suggested.

As for keeping people from getting out of the starting galaxy? If players won't abide by your rules, that's what kick and ban are for.
[doublepost=1489071440,1489070572][/doublepost]

Gasboy I honestly do not know what kind of pvp you've had, or if I'm the one to blame you do not understand me. But what I am saying is not the first time someone has said it in the forum and I doubt it is the last.


2) Seriusly make that on "active" admin mode is only put an extra work on those guys, At this moment there is no "passive" way to do that.
[I doubt very much that the servers that have that rule do more than two watts a week in search of "abnormalities"]

Either I'm terriblmenete wrong or the warpdrive goes by sectors not km, people will take the same time to reach a galaxy even if you put the sectors within 100km. Do you really just move with thrusters?


3) *facepalm* please "being a wikipedia" do not mean you have the reasson, of course you need take sectors to get faction points if you configure the server on that way, but please read again the stuff i wroted i think you pass trough the point:

"Doing that you are not forcing people to expand, only to change the claimed sector or claim a sector while you are going to mine.[The rest of time you do not need get a sector claimed, and there are other options at those server type better than homebases to settle.]"

You are basing your argument on the need to have an active homebase when it is not necessary.


4)[MODE IRONIC ON] Of course you can limit the damage that a lone wolf or a faction with teamwork can do on a server where you have to maintain territory so you do not lose the protection of a homebase.[MODE IRONIC OFF]


As I said before in the current state of the starmade there are no reasons for pvp beyond filling egos, which usually causes tons of industrial shit to be generated on servers that allow it to "free" or with regulations.

Everything that I have proposed can not be carried out without an active component by an administrator, which causes that it can not be carried out. [As rare as it seems the administrators end up burning by doing things "active" in the server]

2) I do think that you can find such information in the log files, perhaps? Player x jumped from here to there? I could be wrong. Also, you can change the distance a jump drive goes in the settings. I think you can also change the default number of sectors in a system. So yeah, you can really slow people down, if you actually want to.

3) Yeah, and a faction without faction points gets disbanded. No territory, no faction points. No faction points, no faction. Again, as I have said a dozen or so times now, it's on the server admin to set the rules and to police them. How seriously they want to do this is up to them.

4) Not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that people will cheat and get around rules in place? No shit. That's in every PvP game ever made. But it can be managed and dealt with.

StarMade isn't going to be a purely PvP game. Should it have better PvP tools? Of course. I'm not saying it shouldn't. But PvP can be done, with a purpose, assuming the admins want to have this, and that the players are interested in the system that the admins devise.

EDIT: Look, dude. Let's agree to disagree. You're saying it's not possible to have PvP with a purpose in StarMade. I'm saying it is possible, it's just a lot of work.

 

[Gasboy]

StarMade isn't going to be a purely PvP game.

Starmade is going to be a rts, i have no idea what you understand by rts, but it's clear that pvp is "implicit" on rts.

I am totally confused reading that part. Sometimes you can not be good with everyone and apparently you are trying that.

Unless you are telling me that all the pirates and NPC factions are going to disappear, and that we won't be mining any more, or building starships or space stations, StarMade will have some PvE elements and thus won't be PURELY PvP. Is that more clear? I didn't say there would be NO PvP.

And as I said for the rest of it, I agree to disagree. Feel free to keep arguing though.

 

[Scypio]

As for faction points, look at how Elwyn Returnity does it, reverse faction points. It's possible to award or penalize differently. And yes, modding is an admin's job. Schine's not going to do it for you. Not sure if it's possible, but if it IS possible to manually reward or penalize people faction points, then you don't need a mod to do what I have suggested.

As for keeping people from getting out of the starting galaxy? If players won't abide by your rules, that's what kick and ban are for.

And that's where you start to fall into pieces that's easy to say that it is admin's job, as i know this well, server admins need to do all in their servers if they want it to be alive, that won't maintain it by itself. In a game like starmade it is even worse, as they must restart the server when it get down for whatever reason, you need to check everytime that players are folowing your rules, stay in the back of everyone as there is so much bugs that you can use to break the game or even the server and then organise some events. Server owners and admins are like you and me, they're players with free time, they're not payed to run a server, that's the reverse. You can't ask them on top of that to do some modding on the game to simply add basic mechanics.

Schine isn't going to force people to PvP, and as I have said constantly, it's on the server admins to encourage PvP.

I don't ask schine to force me to pvp, i want schine to add mechanics to reward factions for owning systems and ways to fight for without the homebase dilemma. Or simply more mechanics that started to be added with faction point but never finished, we don't ask pvp, we ask tools to work with. Something that doesn't need modding the game or admins on our back would be nice too.