Block Driven Ship/Turret AI

[Edymnion]

I can't say more about my drones, because it's fractional secret. But they're really dangerous. Best way to kill them is fighters.

Meh, I have turrets that can stop them quite easily.

Combination cannon/cannon/overdrive and cannon/cannon/stop.

For the size you say they are, they'd have to be almost entirely thrusters with no weapons to avoid the stop cannon pinning them to the sky while the chain gun punched a 3x3 hole through them and the missile/cannon turrets had an easy time hammering them since they could no longer dodge.

Plenty of ways to deal with drones that don't require other drones.

 

[Panpiper]

Combination cannon/cannon/overdrive and cannon/cannon/stop.

I could have sworn that I did NOT upload my anti-drone turrets...

 

[ToddoftheYear]

Meh, I have turrets that can stop them quite easily.

Combination cannon/cannon/overdrive and cannon/cannon/stop.

For the size you say they are, they'd have to be almost entirely thrusters with no weapons to avoid the stop cannon pinning them to the sky while the chain gun punched a 3x3 hole through them and the missile/cannon turrets had an easy time hammering them since they could no longer dodge.

Plenty of ways to deal with drones that don't require other drones.

Stop effects won't work on drones with docked armor.

 

[Edymnion]

Stop effects won't work on drones with docked armor.

Jijiji doesn't have room on his drones for a single extra block for AI, what makes you think he's wasting space on rails and dockers?

 

[ToddoftheYear]

Jijiji doesn't have room on his drones for a single extra block for AI, what makes you think he's wasting space on rails and dockers?

Rail basic = .05 mass
Ship core = .10 mass
Rail docker = .10 mass
Total = .25 mass
Three blocks

That's trivial to convert his armor into docked armor.

 

[Panpiper]

Stop effects won't work on drones with docked armor.

My anti-drone turrets fire ten times a second. If the stop cannon hits, it's because the overdrive cannon also hit. That hit will break whatever advanced armor block it hit, allowing the stop effect hit to penetrate and hit the hull that the now pierced docked armor was docked to. Subsequent shots will indeed be fired at an immobile target.

 

[Edymnion]

Rail basic = .05 mass
Ship core = .10 mass
Rail docker = .10 mass
Total = .25 mass
Three blocks

That's trivial to convert his armor into docked armor.

One would think, but he's claiming this would be the end of the world for having to add what amounts to one logic block of 0.01 mass.

My anti-drone turrets fire ten times a second. If the stop cannon hits, it's because the overdrive cannon also hit. That hit will break whatever advanced armor block it hit, allowing the stop effect hit to penetrate and hit the hull that the now pierced docked armor was docked to. Subsequent shots will indeed be fired at an immobile target.

Same, my anti-fighter turrets have the central stop cannon surrounded by 4 either overdrive or punchthrough cannons that can take out a couple layers of advanced armor per hit. Considering they're rapid fire, the outter cannons would have to strafe over the target before the inner stop cannon could hit, which means any docked armor less than 3 layers thick would be shredded before the stop effect ever hit.

 

[ToddoftheYear]

One would think, but he's claiming this would be the end of the world for having to add what amounts to one logic block of 0.01 mass.
Same, my anti-fighter turrets have the central stop cannon surrounded by 4 either overdrive or punchthrough cannons that can take out a couple layers of advanced armor per hit. Considering they're rapid fire, the outter cannons would have to strafe over the target before the inner stop cannon could hit, which means any docked armor less than 3 layers thick would be shredded before the stop effect ever hit.

My anti-drone turrets fire ten times a second. If the stop cannon hits, it's because the overdrive cannon also hit. That hit will break whatever advanced armor block it hit, allowing the stop effect hit to penetrate and hit the hull that the now pierced docked armor was docked to. Subsequent shots will indeed be fired at an immobile target.

Are we just ignoring shields?
100 mass drone could easily have 10-20k shields.

 

[jijiji]

Meh, I have turrets that can stop them quite easily.

Combination cannon/cannon/overdrive and cannon/cannon/stop.

For the size you say they are, they'd have to be almost entirely thrusters with no weapons to avoid the stop cannon pinning them to the sky while the chain gun punched a 3x3 hole through them and the missile/cannon turrets had an easy time hammering them since they could no longer dodge.

Plenty of ways to deal with drones that don't require other drones.

Same, my anti-fighter turrets have the central stop cannon surrounded by 4 either overdrive or punchthrough cannons that can take out a couple layers of advanced armor per hit. Considering they're rapid fire, the outter cannons would have to strafe over the target before the inner stop cannon could hit, which means any docked armor less than 3 layers thick would be shredded before the stop effect ever hit.

You didn't see them and can't say that your turret will 100% kill them. It may kill them, but only if can shoot them. It's hard to hit small drone moving at speed more then 1100 m/s and range more than 2-6 km (some of them can fight with range more than 10-20 km). Of course it depends on world settings. Current drones made for 10km sector size.

That's why I say that fighter is best way to kill them.

 

[Edymnion]

You didn't see them and can't say that your turret will 100% kill them.

I'm just going to do this.

Punchthrough/Stop Combo Cannon Turret
You can pit a couple of your drones against a couple of these and see for yourself.

Its not my big heavy duty one, but it should get the job done just the same.

 

[jijiji]

I'm just going to do this.

Punchthrough/Stop Combo Cannon Turret
You can pit a couple of your drones against a couple of these and see for yourself.

Its not my big heavy duty one, but it should get the job done just the same.

I will test it soon. Busy a bit at the moment.

 

[ToddoftheYear]

I'm just going to do this.

Punchthrough/Stop Combo Cannon Turret
You can pit a couple of your drones against a couple of these and see for yourself.

Its not my big heavy duty one, but it should get the job done just the same.

I don't get it. What's the point of making self powered turrets?

That said, your power reactor setup on that is strictly bad. You could easily increase the power generation on it by 30-40% with a more efficient setup using the same number of blocks.

 

[Edymnion]

I don't get it. What's the point of making self powered turrets?

So that they can fire independently of the ship.

Each one of those things requires 50k e/sec to fire, which is not a negligible amount of power when you have multiple copies of them all around the ship. Keeping them self powered means your main ship's power reserves are never affected, which gives you more power for shields, thrusters, or a larger energy generation buffer against EMP weapons.

That said, your power reactor setup on that is strictly bad. You could easily increase the power generation on it by 30-40% with a more efficient setup using the same number of blocks.

Its a turret.
Its first goal was to be effective at killing things. Its second goal was to look good.

Long as it can generate the power it needs to fire, I don't care if its at maximum efficiency or not. Built the actual gun, built a neat shell, then cram in enough power to make it self sufficient.

Its not like a half dozen extra power generator blocks are going to kill me in either production or mass. If it really bothers you, its up on the CC for a reason, feel free to download it and revamp it into anything you want.

 

[jijiji]

Test done: no loss, just damaged my gunships upto 40%. I tested 4 turrets on ship vs 12 drones.

Punchthrough/Stop Combo Cannon Turret

It is not AA turret just because it can't turn at least 90 degrees vertical. It is important. And AI is so weak now...

I can test 4 turrets against 6 drones. But ship vs ship is easier to test then turret vs ship.
[doublepost=1481902073,1481901976][/doublepost]

What's the point of making self powered turrets?

It may be useful if your ship have more then 2m or 5m power income, because of power's soft-cap.

 

[ToddoftheYear]

So that they can fire independently of the ship.

Each one of those things requires 50k e/sec to fire, which is not a negligible amount of power when you have multiple copies of them all around the ship. Keeping them self powered means your main ship's power reserves are never affected, which gives you more power for shields, thrusters, or a larger energy generation buffer against EMP weapons.

But your main ship is way more efficient at generating power.

Your turret generates ~185.88 e/s per power reactor block.
A simple power reactor setup on a large ship generates ~400-800 e/s per power reactor block. Good power reactor setups generate ~1000-1600 e/s per power reactor block.

You could take those power reactor blocks and just stick them on your main ship for better power efficiency.

It may be useful if your ship have more then 2m or 5m power income, because of power's soft-cap.

You can bypass the 2m soft cap with shared docked power.

 

[Edymnion]

It is not AA turret just because it can't turn at least 90 degrees vertical. It is important. And AI is so weak now...

That one wasn't built as strictly anti-drone/fighter, but you shouldn't be putting all of your turrets on the same plane anyway. Should have a mix of positions.

I can test 4 turrets against 6 drones. But ship vs ship is easier to test then turret vs ship

Was starting to say, would you have put 4 fighters up against 12 drones? But again, that one was specifically made to be part of a broader turret arrangement. Pretty sure though that one on one the turret will win.

But your main ship is way more efficient at generating power.

Your turret generates ~185.88 e/s per power reactor block.
A properly designed power reactor setup on a large ship generates ~400-800 e/s per power reactor block.

You could take those power reactor blocks and just stick them on your main ship for way more power.

Not if your ship is already soft-capped you can't, then regular reactor blocks are at 25 e/sec.

You can bypass the 2m soft cap with shared docked power.

Docked generators were rendered unviable with the last patch. Once you're at soft cap, you have to use auxilary power blocks now.

Maximum efficiency on Aux Power is just over 190 e/sec per block, and it takes nearly 10,000 blocks of the stuff to reach that.

So no, the power generation game has changed, and it is much more difficult and much more dangerous to produce power over the soft cap these days.

 

[jijiji]

You can bypass the 2m soft cap with shared docked power.

Yeah! I know. But it don't works now from docked to carrier.

That one wasn't built as strictly anti-drone/fighter, but you shouldn't be putting all of your turrets on the same plane anyway. Should have a mix of positions.

I used different positions.

Was starting to say, would you have put 4 fighters up against 12 drones?

Sure!

 

[ToddoftheYear]

Docked generators were rendered unviable with the last patch. Once you're at soft cap, you have to use auxilary power blocks now.

Docked power sharing and docked generators are two different things.

 

[Edymnion]

Docked power sharing and docked generators are two different things.

So you're what exactly, docking a reactor to your ship and then docking your turrets to the reactor so that they pull from it?

Interesting, if rather difficult to build around.

 

[jijiji]

Somewhy I can't find fighter's design