Creating effective and efficient mining systems

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    Hello folks, with the promise of the NPC update to come soon i'm looking at getting back into Starmade. Since I've been gone there have been many improvements and new features added to this game.

    Right now I'm really interested in making effective mining systems. I'm curious as to how much we can automate now and what designs work well.
     

    MrFURB

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    Making good mining drones is still on my to-do list and a bit far down it seeing how finicky they tend to be. I did do some solid testing with vanilla config salvagers so maybe this will help in some way.

    Each salvage module will chew through 1.1 blocks per cycle. This increases linearly until your group size hits 91 modules which will salvage 100-101 blocks per cycle. Adding more modules after that has zero effect.
    Salvage/cannon has twice the maximum effective group size, salvage/beam has 1/3 the maximum group size, and salvage/pulse has 1/6 the maximum group size.

    Weapon slaves are 20 times as expensive as salvage modules. None of them increase or decrease the number of blocks gathered/module/second. Whether to use them or not really does come down to if you care about the resource cost.
     
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    In other words, long checkerboards of salvage rods and reactor/thruster/other system rods work really well, if looking terribly brick-like. Fleetmining is by far the best for large scale and more passive mining.

    Make drones have a smaller salvage array(the ones I use have like a 5 by 5 going 8 deep) with cannon on full, as AI is a lot less efficient aiming wise and only get about 2/3rds of it actually mining at once.
    Don't add shipmounted weapons, they shouldn't be fighting at all.
    Maybe some anti-missile turrets and a stop cannon to delay total destruction.
    Some shields, you could add some hull as well, it really only needs so much.
    Thrusters you can leave at around 1:1 TtM ratio, the fleet system is wacky enough right now that it doesn't matter much.
    One of the main things is cargo, mine have a little space in the back with about 6k storage, it never fills halfway but on OP mining bonus servers that might be a problem.

    TL;DR
    Mini salvage/cannon checkerboards, light shielding, cargo space, cheap as dirt.
     
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    If i were to build a fleet of these checkerboards would I have to be in the sector they mine, can I send them off and check on them every once in a while or will they come back when full?
     
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    Weapon slaves are 20 times as expensive as salvage modules. None of them increase or decrease the number of blocks gathered/module/second. Whether to use them or not really does come down to if you care about the resource cost.
    This. 90% of the value in my miners are the secondary additives to them. Because they don't add any real number benefit, cannon(for fleetmining and feeling like you're getting more done) and beam(for the range) are the only things I would consider adding. Better to make swarms of them then one by one with sparkelz.

    [Edit]
    Actually, in the late late game, cannon does provide some benefit, because you can add more salvage modules to each rod before it becomes maximum efficiency of one block per tick. It's minor, but it's there. If you don't care about cost.
    [doublepost=1475724193,1475723862][/doublepost]Woof! Ninja'd each other!
    If i were to build a fleet of these checkerboards would I have to be in the sector they mine, can I send them off and check on them every once in a while or will they come back when full?
    They need to be loaded in, so as long as your render distance is up enough and you're nearby(or if you have your base a couple of sectors away and you fiddle around there, it should work. I think just using one of the miners you use yourself should work. Remember the annoying feature that the flagship will not mine though, so I always just make a core and assign it as leader. Less lazy people will make it a guard ship or a resource drop off, but I haven't gotten around to doing that yet.
     
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    This. 90% of the value in my miners are the secondary additives to them. Because they don't add any real number benefit, cannon(for fleetmining and feeling like you're getting more done) and beam(for the range) are the only things I would consider adding. Better to make swarms of them then one by one with sparkelz.

    [Edit]
    Actually, in the late late game, cannon does provide some benefit, because you can add more salvage modules to each rod before it becomes maximum efficiency of one block per tick. It's minor, but it's there. If you don't care about cost.
    [doublepost=1475724193,1475723862][/doublepost]Woof! Ninja'd each other!

    They need to be loaded in, so as long as your render distance is up enough and you're nearby(or if you have your base a couple of sectors away and you fiddle around there, it should work. I think just using one of the miners you use yourself should work. Remember the annoying feature that the flagship will not mine though, so I always just make a core and assign it as leader. Less lazy people will make it a guard ship or a resource drop off, but I haven't gotten around to doing that yet.
    Multiple accounts in a faction. One for mining, keep that AFK. Others for doing business lol
     
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    Weapon slaves are 20 times as expensive as salvage modules. None of them increase or decrease the number of blocks gathered/module/second. Whether to use them or not really does come down to if you care about the resource cost.
    There are a couple of reasons to consider using weapon slaves for salvage arrays. Using a cannon slave allows you to build a single beam emitter array that simply does not stop. Hold down your mouse button and mine away. It is a much simpler way to mine than having to constantly alternate between two beams, or even worse, waiting till a single array recycles so you can start mining again.

    Using pulse lets you use a much smaller number of blocks to build a mining array (typically two such arrays so you can alternate between them), which can be useful if you are adding such an array to a warship or battleminer that has more than enough power for such an array when it is not otherwise in combat, such as when it is mining. Using regular salvage modules or a salvage/cannon system will result in a much larger quantity of blocks to get the same mining results. Pulse slaved salvage beams need be no more than 15 blocks long for maximum effect. Again though, such a salvage/pulse array will use a LOT more power. This is good for battleminers. This is bad for normal mining ships.

    The easiest mining array to use is a salvage/cannon array. Build a waffle pattern of salvage modules of whatever width and height you deem appropriate for your ship (I like 15-20 for fast asteroid mining, larger if eating planets), and then build another waffle directly behind that one corresponding to the previously empty squares in the waffle pattern. Think of it like a checker board. One pattern is the red squares, the other pattern is the non-red squares. Make the length of each of those waffle patterns up to 91 blocks long, depending upon your intended ship size. In the empty spaces of those two waffle patterns, fill them with cannon modules. Link all of the salvage modules to a salvage computer and all of the cannon modules to a cannon computer, join the two in a master slave where the cannon is slave to the salvage and you will have a maximum strength, solid beam that will last for as long as you hold down the fire button. Such a salvage array will eat asteroids whole in mere seconds. Make sure you have enough power to sustain fire and enough thrust to maneuver easily among asteroids.

    I actually prefer to build battleminers for mining that can easily destroy pirates and pirate stations on their own. This makes mining a FAR less risky game. Because I build such ships for maximum power, I usually use pulse slaves with the salvage array so as to minimize their length. This not coincidentally allows me to build a shorter ship (typically quite stubby), which results in a much more agile turning radius. This makes maneuvering inside an asteroid field a lot less painful. Such an array can be built in the same way as above but with two of them side by side. What I do however is to instead build both of the original waffle patterns and link all of them to one salvage computer, and then build a second such waffle pattern of salvage modules 'inside' the first one, except this set is linked to the other salvage computer. Once done, this looks like a giant solid block of salvage modules, 30 blocks long and whatever height and width I have decided upon. It is not however simply a giant set of salvage blocks, the blocks have been linked to two separate salvage computers using that waffle pattern.

    This last is more tricky to build (a little bit) but results in both salvage beams emitting from the same point in your ship. This is somewhat more aesthetic and makes it slightly easier to use an alternating beam, as it is in effect the same beam, just one that requires you to use two different triggers. The pulse slaves can be put anywhere you want in your ship in whatever shape or shapes are convenient. Remember though, I cannot stress enough how this will use a LOT of power. My last such battleminer actually had an internal docked power reactor to help handle the full power load.

    A couple of battleminers. The smaller far side bulbous one is the asteroid miner. The larger one is a world eater. Please forgive the ugly as sin station they are docked to. Never quite got around to addressing that.
     
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    Yes, fleet mining for me. I have used two setups recently. A simple, cheap as chips, fleet of miners such as my cheap as chips ASI Micro Ship Pack (see community content) with the shuttle as the flagship or the more complicated but equally cheap Hyena Class Scavenger (again, see community content), or at least the carrier/drone elements of the package for a more convenient solution.

    While I have played around with weapon support for salvagers, on drones I would personally stick with either cannon or unslaved.

    I am going to explore some simple stick swarmers and attach them to a small ship to use as a carrier.

    Finally, I have even "borrowed" some abandoned, part finished ships that end up scattered around spawn or adjacent sectors. Sometimes a storage is already attached to the salvage computer or I just add one. Add them to your scrap mining fleet and over a few days you could have 20 ships all mining for you. You will have to manually retrieve the contents from time to time and very occasionally the original owner returns to find their ship wasn't where they left it and has a storage block full of goodies but hey. Sometimes when I'm done with them I will leave them at/send them back to spawn with a few bits and bobs in payment. I know that these either get deleted by the server admin or someone else just takes them but it satisfies my moral standards.
     

    Az14el

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    For the time being, as fleet mining is kinda borked & slave systems only reduce (or for some slaves at efficient numbers... increase -_-) overall size but increase the cost, I use 100 per group pure salvage modules (200 salvage power to match the current values on salv required per block, simple, important to maximize efficiency & reduce lag, but overlooked) on two seperate salvage computers and simply sequence them on logic so they fire on a cicuit a second apart to keep the beam uptime constant. Another advantage to this is the logic design lets you put two opposing checkerboards feeding through each-other for a solid wall of salvage. Also less RSI :D
     
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    AtraUnam

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    It should be noted that last time this thread came around it was discovered that drones were FAR less likely to spazz out if they only had a single salvage output.
     
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    It should be noted that last time this thread came around it was discovered that drones were FAR less likely to spazz out if they only had a single salvage output.
    That is true in the case of larger drones but I find with smaller ones with a 3x3 array fair better. So lots of small drones or fewer larger ones. Whatever you can get away with.

    In fact, smaller drones and a heavy carrier make retrieval a lot less problematic. In fact, I am now skinning my drones in motherboard and grill unless they are likely to encounter hostiles but in any case it does make them more "throw away".

    I am achieving good results with a 3x3x18 "stick" that is rounded off with motherboard. The central rear beam is 3 blocks shorter than the rest as there is a rail docker and some logic but the logic at least could be omitted if not carrier bound. 4 thrusters give sufficient 1.1-1.2 t2m ratio and 8 power reactors supply enough power for everything. Dozens of these could be built quickly and cheaply from day 1 or 2 and seriously ramp up your mining operations. I currently am testing 8 of these docked to a modified Isanth with amazing results but any small ship could act as a carrier for a few of these.
     
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    Just a question- is 91 now the most effective group size for salvagers? Last I checked, 20 in a rod would maximize it at one block per tick. Was this changed somehow?
     
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    At this point I'd prefer to just send drones to unloaded sectors and have them mathematically harvest, since obviously having them actually harvest has turned out to be much more difficult than expected.
     
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    At this point I'd prefer to just send drones to unloaded sectors and have them mathematically harvest, since obviously having them actually harvest has turned out to be much more difficult than expected.
    This would be nice with maybe some kind of AI scanner computer that reports what asteroids are there. Being able to mine multiple asteroids at the same time would be nice too AND to be able to somehow prioritise which asteroids to seek out.
     

    Edymnion

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    Just a question- is 91 now the most effective group size for salvagers? Last I checked, 20 in a rod would maximize it at one block per tick. Was this changed somehow?
    As far as I know we're still sitting at 200 salvage power per tic being the upper limit (aka 100 blocks per array), and even divisions of that amount (so 100, 50, 25, 10) being optimal sub-units.

    Idea being that the extra damage from "over mining" a block does not spill over to the next block, so if 200 damage is required and your array does 110 damage a tick, then first tick does 110, second tick ends up doing 220, but that extra 20 damage is lost so its not any faster than the 100 base. Or conversely, 99 damage would take three ticks (99, 198, 297) and waste almost all of the third tick.

    So 100 block array eats one block ever tick.
    50 block array eats one block every 2 ticks.
    25 eats one block every 4 ticks.
    10 eats one block every 10 ticks.
     

    MrFURB

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    As far as I know we're still sitting at 200 salvage power per tic being the upper limit (aka 100 blocks per array), and even divisions of that amount (so 100, 50, 25, 10) being optimal sub-units.

    Idea being that the extra damage from "over mining" a block does not spill over to the next block, so if 200 damage is required and your array does 110 damage a tick, then first tick does 110, second tick ends up doing 220, but that extra 20 damage is lost so its not any faster than the 100 base. Or conversely, 99 damage would take three ticks (99, 198, 297) and waste almost all of the third tick.

    So 100 block array eats one block ever tick.
    50 block array eats one block every 2 ticks.
    25 eats one block every 4 ticks.
    10 eats one block every 10 ticks.
    Actually, the progress to salvaging the next block does carry over between blocks (but each tick can only salvage a maximum of one block).
    The progress is tracked for each group kinda of like a calculator running in the background. Each salvage tick the game calculates the amount of salvage power to add based on module count, and if that number is 200 or greater it subtracts 200 and salvages whatever block it is hitting that tick.

    A massive ten bajillion module salvage group is only going to salvage as much as a 91 module group because even though it has a billion power per tick which carries over to the next tick, it will only subtract 200 and salvage a block once per tick until the weapon cycles off and all that leftover salvage power is wasted.

    Unless you're going over the maximum effective size for a salvage group (91 modules) the number of blocks salvaged should always be 1.1 times the number of salvage modules per cycle. Until you hit that point any basic salvage array is optimal.
     
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    So 100 block array eats one block ever tick.
    50 block array eats one block every 2 ticks.
    25 eats one block every 4 ticks.
    10 eats one block every 10 ticks.
    Unless you're going over the maximum effective size for a salvage group (91 modules) the number of blocks salvaged should always be 1.1 times the number of salvage modules per cycle. Until you hit that point any basic salvage array is optimal.
    ...

    Wha? So what does each module add in salvage power per tick? Can I get that? I don't get how both your posts can be correct.
    [doublepost=1475787747,1475787683][/doublepost]
    I for one would LOVE a turret setting that automatically fired upon asteroids in range.
    This. You can just make a turret big enough to mine entire asteroids, but that's not very stable and I think AI focus fires too.
     
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    Just for those who may be interested, here are my work in progress mining "sticks" and a modified Isanth VI carrier. The jump home and the results of the short trip.

     
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    Just for those who may be interested, here are my work in progress mining "sticks" and a modified Isanth VI carrier. The jump home and the results of the short trip.

    They actually look okay! I'm surprised that they don't look as blocky as I thought they would. Now you need some cool launching system for them.