StarMade v0.199.214 Auxiliary Power, Better Graphics, Better Textures, and Bugfixes

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    either I am doing something wrong, or something is broken, but I can't make auxes as efficient, as docked reactors were. docked had 1600+ points regen per block, auxes make 29-50. 200 as a max as was stated in the newspost. though i can't get more then 52. what am I doing wrong? i want my magic 1500 regen per block back:)
     
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    either I am doing something wrong, or something is broken, but I can't make auxes as efficient, as docked reactors were. docked had 1600+ points regen per block, auxes make 29-50. 200 as a max as was stated in the newspost. though i can't get more then 52. what am I doing wrong? i want my magic 1500 regen per block back:)
    Did you happen to forget to take all the power supply beam blocks and power capacitors into account?
     

    Ithirahad

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    Great, now hardcore players will rolfstomp random plebs with their ten million mass fleets instead. Problem solved.
    Actually? Yes. Problem solved. A roflstomp in this game should come in the form of an immense fleet of ships, not a single nigh-invincible 300,000,000 mass brick covered in turrets.
     
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    Actually? Yes. Problem solved. A roflstomp in this game should come in the form of an immense fleet of ships, not a single nigh-invincible 300,000,000 mass brick covered in turrets.
    And I don't get how people even bother joining servers who allow this big ships without having enough players to attack such thing. I mean I get that its fun having 10 people attacking one capital, but this form of battle never happens. So where is the thrill for people joining servers that allow capitals without the right rule-setting? Capitals should only be allowed if you are a faction of 10 guys and if there are at least 5 other factions with 10 guys each. If there are not enough other factions and only one big faction then split that one big faction into smaller ones so you have some gameplay at last. And allow capitals when they actually make sense and are not only some teenager action phantasy but contribute to the combat depth.
     

    StormWing0

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    As I said above, various solutions were presented and ingored.
    Link them. Would rather know they exist at all as oppose to people saying them exist but don't. Hint they were likely ignored because of either not being the right solution or because people where demanding it and unwilling to compromise.

    Great, now hardcore players will rolfstomp random plebs with their ten million mass fleets instead. Problem solved.
    I'd rather fight a fleet of ships I can kite into the sun or a nearby pirate station over fighting and single huge Doom's Day ship that wipes out all creation for 4 sectors around it.
     
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    I'd rather fight a fleet of ships I can kite into the sun or a nearby pirate station over fighting and single huge Doom's Day ship that wipes out all creation for 4 sectors around it.
    I totally agree to that. Capitals only make sense when there are enough players on the server who can attack them. But they should be not in the hand of one idiot who doesn't care for the fun of the rest of the players. Owners could spawn capitals as event-only,remove them after the event, and give big rewards for factions that attack them in missions. And give those factions half the ressources back if the capitals roflstomp their ships and they can't even retreat. Or make a competition out of it: How many hp-damage did this or this faction to the capital before it shredded their ships? =)
     
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    Link them. Would rather know they exist at all as oppose to people saying them exist but don't. Hint they were likely ignored because of either not being the right solution or because people where demanding it and unwilling to compromise.
    I'm sorry, I don't have any links at hand, and I won't spend hours to search the suggestion forum.
     
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    I love this update, most specifically because the torpedoes on my Hunter prototypes would always glitch into each other, causing lag and premature explosions upon firing/moving. this update fixes that. Thank you so much Schine Team.
     
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    Great, now hardcore players will rolfstomp random plebs with their ten million mass fleets instead. Problem solved.
    You say this as if there won't be limitations to fleets in the future. I'm sure that crew and a factionpoint cost for fleets would go a long way towards cutting down jumbo fleets.

    either I am doing something wrong, or something is broken, but I can't make auxes as efficient, as docked reactors were. docked had 1600+ points regen per block, auxes make 29-50. 200 as a max as was stated in the newspost. though i can't get more then 52. what am I doing wrong? i want my magic 1500 regen per block back:)
    I'm going to call bullshit on 1500e/s/b. That's either ghost blocks or an edited config.

    As for why you're only getting 29-50, are you looking at the active or passive regen rates?
     
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    You say this as if there won't be limitations to fleets in the future. I'm sure that crew and a factionpoint cost for fleets would go a long way towards cutting down jumbo fleets.
    Shifting the problem from ship size to fleet size to faction size won't solve the basic problem of antisocial behaviour of some community members.
     
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    Shifting the problem from ship size to fleet size to faction size won't solve the basic problem of antisocial behaviour of some community members.
    I think thats just to 50% right. Antisocial behaviour: yes. But having control over and limitations to faction-, ship- and fleet-size actually help a lot to deal with it.
     

    Maxajax

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    I think it’s fair that I give you a complete explanation of the replacement system and what was the situation before that. The original idea was mine and regurgitated many times with the Council, Schine and players (although without mentioning anything concrete).

    I’ve spent a lot of my spare time figuring out this system and gathering information from players. I only ask you to read this post from start to end.

    Back in Time
    Assume that we don’t have docked reactors, or this replacement system for now. We only have the basic reactors.

    Why did we give them a soft cap to begin with?

    Something called the inverse-cube law. It’s to do with ship size. The ratio of functional blocks (power/weapons) versus non functional blocks (armor/decoration) is completely different for small ships compared to the larger ones.

    Non functional blocks are mostly on the outside of the ship, the hull.
    Functional blocks are on the inside, the systems.

    A small ship usually has 50% of its blocks as hull, the other 50% are systems.
    A “big” ship ends up with about 15% of its blocks as hull or less if there is no armor at all, compared to the 85% systems remaining.

    You need power for pretty much anything on your ship, so originally the problem with a linear scale is that small ships just didn’t have enough power to be useful. We couldn’t simply increase the linear regeneration without also buffing the bigger ship. We couldn’t simply change the hull vs system ratio either for large ships or small ships.

    The solution to this was to make power scale faster at the start and eventually fizzle out to its normal linear component when you reach bigger ship sizes. The threshold was set to 1 mil because around that size, the ratio was beginning to favor systems more than hull and because at that time, ships of that size were considered big. Anything bigger and you would experience severe performance problems.

    This isn’t perfect since different ship shapes have different hull vs systems ratios but it worked for many examples. We made power regen scale even better for people that optimized dimensions per group but that came down to the same thing after a while. You didn’t have 5 equal choices, just 1 really. This was unfortunate but inevitable.


    Later this soft cap was increased to 2 mil since Starmade could handle bigger ships better than it did 2-3 years ago. Also making people build bigger.


    Docked reactors
    When these popped up to bypass the soft cap on your ship, it was a good concept. It wasn’t overpowered, since for every new entity where you reached 2 mil regen, you also needed extra blocks to supply it to the main ship + other system blocks to make sure the reactor was usable.
    This made power reactors less efficient than the mothership power reactors. Basically making the mothership’s linear regeneration higher (but adding downsides).

    The risk of this system was that more of your power is localized into specific areas of high efficiency. The docked reactors gave away their location (navigation markers, it’s easy enough to figure out where they are) allowing any opponent to focus on them first.
    A hit reactor rapidly lots its efficiency due to its power lines getting severed or it losing its logic, computer or docked module.

    It was an acceptable downside to a system bypassing the original softcap. It allowed bigger ships to enjoy their extra system to hull ratio even more but they had vulnerable spots where people could hurt them the most.

    At some point power supply blocks were nerfed a bit to make their efficiency lower to make it more balanced.



    I’ve seen people say that it requires a lot of skill to make power reactors, but it’s not. What you need to know is the concept, then it’s child’s play.

    Why?
    Because docked reactors actually scale linear. The power supplied by a docked reactor isn’t limited by the power reactors till you hit the soft cap, but by the power supply blocks.

    Reaching 2 mil regen requires 2000-3000 blocks give or take, depending on how efficient you can make their shape. 1000 blocks sounds like a big difference in efficiency, till you look at the power supply blocks required to supply it all down to the main ship…6600!

    First of all, they provide 0.8 power for every 1 power consumed. You can’t make a reactor that provides more than 1.6 mil regen without bringing your efficiency down.
    To provide 1.6 mil you need to have about 6600 blocks power supply blocks. That’s at least twice as much than you need power reactors, that’s not even to mention the few power capacity blocks you need to make sure each tick has enough power in storage and game lag doesn’t cut it off. Add some shields to that since well, extra safety is good. Let’s say about 7000-8000 extra blocks on top of the 2000-3000 power blocks.

    The limiting factor on docked reactors isn’t the power reactor group (which scales better depending on the pattern you make them => skill based). It’s based on the power supply blocks that are completely linear (put them down wherever you want and there you go => not skill based). Add a simple logic clock to it and you’re pretty much good to go.

    Why reactors are so “unique” is that people just don’t realize this is a way to bypass the power softcap when they play the game for the first few months.


    Of course there are variants with 2 computers, alternating fire and eliminating any delay between beams but that’s already accounted for in the block count provided above, it assumes perfect power transfer.


    If you put this in a graph, compared to the normal reactors you get this.



    X-axis: Block count
    Y-axis: Power regen/sec

    As you can see, the docked reactors are pretty much linear linear even though the power reactor block itself doesn’t scale linear. It starts going down after 1.6 mil but that’s because you can’t go higher than that without also resulting in linear power regen.

    The power reactor curve is only 1 group, but it’s the same curve with multiple groups just widened on the X-axis. That would also make the docked reactor curve slightly less linear but barely noticeable.

    This is not skill based. There’s no ultimate shape that makes your special engineered reactors 2 times better than an equal sized one of your opponent.

    “Make power supply scale non linear too then”. Why would I do that when apparently power reactors are fine right now, a great skill based addition with tons of depth?


    Performance
    You’ve all heard the reason why we finally decided to move away from these, lag created by them undocking during combat (or on accident). And no, leaving empty space between your reactor and the ship, or none at all doesn’t improve performance at all.

    4 big power reactors in a decent sized ship that can fit them, have them undocked in the middle of combat and the game will have to do a ton of calculations to figure out what to do with those undocked structures inside the ship. It will slow down everyone in that sector (and stall the server) till it figures out they have to go outside of the ship or it will never stop. The reactors phase through the solid blocks of a ship but that makes the fewer collision checks even worse (how else would you know it’s outside of the ship).

    When the ship finally poops out the reactors, you’ve gone through 2 minutes of extreme lag spikes and ping increase all around the server. Depending on ship size, the server might never recover and give up entirely.


    This is a severe issue, you can only improve physics up to a point. They had to go and looking at this curve, the solution is simple…

    Replacement block
    The graph shows that that at any given point below 1.6 mil regen, the power regen scales pretty much linear with the block count of a reactor...each reactor has its own softcap…

    We replace the docked reactor with an onboard block that has a soft cap per group! Let them scale linear too!

    Unfortunately, the linear scale wouldn’t work since that would mean the soft cap wouldn’t work. No group based softcap would mean everyone could spread them out over the ship as single blocks or as small clusters.No one actually uses thousands of docked reactors because it’s tedious to make and dock. We had to stay to the core idea of a few medium to big reactors.


    Which means we have to keep the softcap per group idea, and get rid of the linear regen.

    The downside of docked reactors is that the group was focused on 1 spot and that it was easy to destroy (once you found it on the ship, see navigation markers), as I mentioned before. Another reason why we couldn’t allow everyone to spread them out since that moves away from the docked reactors.


    The middle ground is to make them scale faster till they hit the softcap. Reaching peak efficiency at about 1.9 mil regen/sec. Which they do after about 9500 blocks.

    I’m simplifying numbers here since that’s easier to read but currently it’s peak efficiency is 193 power per block in a group. They start at 25 power per block.
    Even if you make a line of this, it would be 9500 blocks long which is simply still easy to hit on a big ship, even on accident.


    The only downside about this complete system is at this stage...There’s no navigation marker, it’s impossible to know where they are. You could spread them around in non cubic shapes, it would take ages of random fire to bring most reactors down to individual groups where they’re worthless. Or even in cubic shapes, you would never know you’re hitting an important spot.

    And here comes the explosive part. Because they’re part of a group it’s easy to make them scale properly with randomized explosions. The best thing about this is that it promotes you to keep them more in a small dimension group than spreading them out as long lines. The explosion power doesn’t decrease, and it will would create a lot more system damage if 50 explosions went off along a long line instead.


    Why do they have internal storage cap? Because power reactors also had a battery variant. These blocks were 90% power capacity and a little regen. They were used in bursts, to give your power capacity back to 100% after firing your first alpha volley. After that they were pretty much useless for a while till they were full.

    These internal storage ones, scale worse at the start compared to the normal power capacitors, but they do scale faster. Going beyond the reactor size of peak efficiency could give you a large internal storage at the cost of a bigger to hit target and less efficiency. The explosive power does become weaker past the peak efficiency so really big reactors wouldn’t lose that much from 1 explosion event.


    Its internal regen is probably too high but those are values we can tweak along the way. The important part is that we get the functionality of 2 types of reactors into 1, and the build style determines which one is going to be the most effective.


    At the end, what we get is:
    • A system that promotes keeping groups into smaller dimensions (they look like docked reactors)
    • A system that has a better efficiency than linear regen (better efficiency than actual docked reactors even)
    • A downside that makes them lose efficiency when hit (docked reactors share the same disease, except that they are more easily found).
    • Little to no performance hit. Explosions are set at the start of an explosion event, reducing explosion impact (which is negligible in small radiuses).

    Now before you get worried about the explosive system…
    It’s scaled in such a way that the explosions happening don’t take out much besides the reactor group itself.

    The explosions are numerous but localized. They only happen in the group.
    The explosions happen every 2 seconds.

    A single hit to a reactor would trigger an explosion event. It would bring its regen down from 1.9 mil back to about 100K in best case scenarios in about 100 seconds. Meaning that a hit reactor is still more efficient than linear power regen for at least a full minute. (It actually is always better than a linear reactor)

    Not only that, but if you put armor layers inside the reactor, you’ll reduce the localized explosion damage to the reactors a lot. A simple sandwich armor system increased its mass by about 50%, but after the explosion event it had 500K power regen left. Still an efficiency of 114 power per block!

    • How you shape the reactor will reduce the chance of it getting hit from a certain angle.
    • How you armor the exterior of the reactor (more at the front facing side) will determine how lucky someone has to get to trigger an explosion event.
    • How you put armor inside the group determines how much you have remaining after it gets hit
    • How deep or where the reactor is located can reduce the chance of it ever being hit
    • Using a few big reactors, or many smaller (but more spread around) reactors will change how fast you can lose your entire power regen during combat.

    The system looks simple from a distance, but you can actually get a decent amount of variation without having to teach the player all about logic and power supply beams.



    Now it’s true that at this point, modular ship design is discouraged/eliminated without power supply beams.

    The solution to that seems simple though, with this separate block we can just have their regen inherit up and down chains without a problem. As long as we never do that for the basic regen there’s nothing that circumvents the initial non linear growth of the basic power reactors since it’s per group anyway, not per entity.

    It’s certainly something we can look into for next release.



    I think that’s about as far as I’m willing to take it here. I can make a bigger post on its own in a separate thread if that is required.

    For now this is scary, and for some a punch in the stomach for all the time you’ve spent on figuring out docked reactors. Not only I believe that this will work, but so does the council and all of Schine.

    The config values may require tweaking, but that’s where your input comes in. It’s important that you’ve used the new block and experimented with it enough to grasp the positives and negatives. Only then can you see that it’s either not working as it should, or is just fine as it is.
    I appreciate that you have stepped forward to give us this post. It has been very informative. I do however wish to make a few comments on it.

    - 1: Your statement regarding small ships:
    According to your theory, the smaller a ship is, the less system blocks it has and the more armour it has. When making this statement, you assume that every player has the same design criteria for small ships as an Isanth, which is a fully armoured fighter. These were never really used by anyone other than the Trading Guild or the Pirates, because it was a waste to put a player in anything smaller than a server-max-size ship. Recently however, Starmade received a patch that gave players access to remotely controlled fleets that commanded AI ships. This resulted in PVPers using a lot of small ships with Cannon + 100% cannon + 100% overdrive which fired bullets that consumed roughly 50k energy, minus a small amount of k as a safety buffer to prevent weapon jams during lag spikes. This meant that they did not require Power Capacity blocks and did not require a large weapon system, whilst still having a wonderful DPS. These were then pushed into mass-production as they only required basic grey hull, power regen, thrusters, cannon blocks and overdrive blocks. Repeated tests against the 1m block ships of many players on GenXnova indicated that 180 of these were able to chew through the shields of 1m block ships with 60% Ion effect in 5 to 10 seconds. Imagine a long 3x 3y cannon with wings, and you aren' t too far off. Not only were these combat effective, they also ate titans like a vicious little cloud of starmade piranhas whilst representing less than 1% of the cost of a 1m block ship complete with a full coating of Hardened Hull blocks for armour. You simply spawned in a stick with a certain number of fighters on it, you hit the undock-all logic button, deleted the stick, and put the fighters in a fleet. In less than a minute you could have a squadron capable of ripping a pirate base or a player titan apart without sustaining major damage.

    There are only two reasons why these things are no longer viable:
    - 1: at some point, one of the patches broke the AI's ability to hold down the fire button properly, meaning that Rapid Fire cannons controlled by Bobby AI units/the general AI now fire them in 1 second bursts instead of properly spraying antimatter death. Modern versions of these are much less dangerous, and use the next best thing, a 41 block cannon system with no support and 41 overdrive blocks as the effect, built to fire 49k energy bullets with a 1k safety margin. One bullet per second is not as good as the old 10 bullets per second, as this means that the gun can never exceed 41+41=82 blocks if you do not wish to utilize Power Capacity blocks, but you make do with what you have. They outrun Missile-Pulse and Missile-Missile, can be fitted with point defense turrets and
    have a hull profile so narrow that cannon-based turrets simply cannot hit them from the front or side, and simply pass through a one-block-thick wing if they hit them from above or below. The only weapon systems that can reliably hit such a fighter are Missile + 100% beam due to the projectile speed increase, or Beam + 100% beam as a stock cannon fighter with a range of 1.0 sector outranges a beam turret with a base range of 0.5 sectors.
    - 2: The server admins instigated a limit of 20 ships per fleet, 10 fleets per faction and 3 fleets per player, with a max fleet size of 300k blocks. This in combination with reason 1, the broken rapid fire, led people to make fleets with three 100k block ships, capped at 2m e/sec and loaded with as many Missile + 0% missile + 100% explosive turrets as the little AI drone' s 2m e/sec could handle.

    Nevertheless, some people still employ these little fighters, specifically because they still have no production costs, still have a respectable damage-to-block-count ratio and can generally draw the fire of a turret set to Turret-Active-Any for a disproportionate amount of time by simply not being hit. They do not require any meaningful armour to do so. Here is an example of such a ship entity, derived from the previous generation of titan killing spam-fighters. There are no similarities between an Isanth and this type of fighter:
    - Angle: http://i.imgur.com/FizCG29.jpg
    - Top down: http://i.imgur.com/p1XtUmD.jpg
    - Front profile: http://i.imgur.com/sJquNkJ.jpg

    The main point that I am trying to make is that a fleet constituted out of small min-maxed ships without a carrier was able to take on 1m block ships with virtually no way to stop them. They were definately not 50% system blocks and 50% hardened hull. The only reason why they are no longer around is the issue with AI rapidfire and the fact that server admins put a stop to it as a meta-tactic.

    - 2: Your data on docked power reactors:
    Now that they're out of the game these can be discussed without any drawbacks, so let me start by informing you that y'all accidentally un-did your own nerf to power supply beams, resetting them to the more favourable statistics that they had in 2013.
    With that out of the way, let's look at the block count of a basic docked reactor. There were two ways you could make these.
    - Option 1: Optimal e/sec per block ratio. Most people go with this. These models can outperform the 193 e/sec per block ratio of the new Auxiliary Power system.
    - Option 2: Optimal e/sec per reactor ratio. which I subscribed to, worked differently. It is also only useful on servers that have a rule that limits the maximum number of docked reactors. On GenXnova, that limit is 20. Essentially what you did was give it a power regen of 2,000,000 and a power cap of 2,000,000 followed by ramping up the power of the power supply beam+100%cannon module to just under 2.500.000 e/sec per tick. The beam fires for 4 seconds, then goes on a 1 second cooldown, during which the power cap spikes back to 100%. This resulted in a 16,038 block reactor with a power output of 1,867,400 e/sec. Dividing 1,867,400 by 16,038 gives us an efficiency rating of 116 e/sec per block. This is much lower than an E/sec per block ratio focus model, but since our server limited the number of reactors to 20, this meant that I had more juice available. After all, 1,867,400 x 20 = 37,348,000 docked energy + 2,000,000 mothership energy which totals 39.348,000 e/sec, whereas 20 e/sec per block focus reactors outputting 1,600,000 plus the mothership's 2,000,000 only amounts to 34,000,000 e/sec, and more energy means more firepower, more shields, more thrust and more effects. It also allowed for bigger factores on homebases. If that 20 docked reactor rule was not in place, I would probably have gone ballistic with the 200+ e/sec per block models.

    Personal preferences in reactor design aside, I can guarantee you that the generators with the most efficient e/sec-to-block-count ratio were infinitely superior to filling up a ship hull with giant chunks of power regen after you hit the 2,000,000 mark with power axis trees. You have to at the very much admit that.

    Regardless, now docked reactors are a thing of the past, and this new Auxiliary Power thing is in effect. Let' s look at the pros and cons.

    PROS:
    - Not a docked entity: This should make Admins happy.

    - Claimed to be more efficient than docked reactors: Currently busy with university stuff, but I very much look forward to seeing whether this is true. If what you say about the blocks providing an optimal efficiency of 193 e/sec per block is true, it outperforms most docked reactors. However, there are docked reactors out there that exceed 193 e/sec per block. This should make most people happy, except the people who designed the efficient models. Since my server made me go for max output per reactor, I have nothing to complain about here.

    - Offers a new dimension of difficulty: As you stated, how people implement this new feature will have a major impact on the functionality and safety of their ships. This should make RPers happy.

    - Much simpler than a docked reactor: This should make new players happy.

    - Potentially more explosions than a Michael Bay movie: This should make everyone happy.

    CONS:
    - Potentially more explosions than a Michael Bay movie + Starmade' s extremely unreliable impact-explosion detection mechanics relative to a moving torpedo and a moving ship on a server with more than 2 people, which has the tendency to cause internal explosions without first chewing through the external armour, armour HP and the System Blocks. This should make PVPers less happy, but an increase in e/sec per block efficiency will be too good to ignore.

    NET BALANCE:
    - If Warhead torpedoes did not lag into ships' system blocks this new power system would be perfect.
     
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    Maxajax, I'd love to rate your post both funny and informative, but I can't. So instead I'll go with informative, even though your comment about explosions in the pros and the cons was fairly funny.

    Though I'd argue that more explosions is ONLY a pro, for everyone but the guy doing the exploding.
     

    Maxajax

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    Maxajax, I'd love to rate your post both funny and informative, but I can't. So instead I'll go with informative, even though your comment about explosions in the pros and the cons was fairly funny.

    Though I'd argue that more explosions is ONLY a pro, for everyone but the guy doing the exploding.
    To be honest even with how wonky torpedoes are, you could still consider a torpedo bypassing the armour and wrecking the auxiliary Power thingies to be a pro if you are a fan of laggy torpedoes. In fairness, it probably is a pro if you don' t feel sorry for the guy on the receiving end.

    In fairness, I never felt more alive in Starmade than the time when a 3x 3y 7z torpedo launched from my old shield-drain stealther 1-hit-cored a 4.7 million block Stargate ship. The realization that you are in a 2000 block stealther, the knowledge that if he scans once, you will be dead before you realize it, the naughty feeling when you drain his shields whilst he AFK' s near a shop. The terror when he started moving sideways towards me once he realized it. The exhilliration when the self-propelled push-computer warhead torpedo overheated the core and sent him to respawn. Holy toasters, that was something. I realize it was only possible due to latency, but that shot will never be repeated.
     
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    I don't like lag-penetrating torpedoes. I prefer my torpedo damage honest (And visible).
     

    Maxajax

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    I don't like lag-penetrating torpedoes. I prefer my torpedo damage honest (And visible).
    Aye, that is why I am bolting here, as a 21x 21y 21z cube of Auxiliary Power is much more likely to get lag-torped than a 1x 1y 1z ship core.
     

    Lone_Puppy

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    I'm curious, what was the root cause of the lag with regards to docked reactors?
    Was it the docked entity, ultimately the docking mechanic?
    Was it to do with increased entity count?
    Was it collisions?
    Was it all of the above?
    Is there anything else?
     

    Ithirahad

    Arana'Aethi
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    I'm curious, what was the root cause of the lag with regards to docked reactors?
    Was it the docked entity, ultimately the docking mechanic?
    Was it to do with increased entity count?
    Was it collisions?
    Was it all of the above?
    Is there anything else?
    Collisions, especially when the reactors get undocked (but also just the additional entity collision checks)