Don't punish decoration, give deco blocks zero mass and HP

[Malacodor]

Purely decorative blocks should have no mass at all. It wouldn't even be that unrealistic. The mass of a screen, a light or a chair is negligible compared to one cubic meter of massive steel. The only problem is that it could be misused to make hull without mass which can absorb one hit unless from a weapon with punch-through (PT) effect.

Solution:
1. Give all weapons 100% PT.
2. Give hull 100% PT resistance.
3. Give functional blocks like shields or thrusters ~50% PT resistance.
4. Cap PT after resistance at 100%.

This way a weapon with a 50% PT effect would have in fact 150%, from which the 100% resistance from hull is subtracted, resulting in the original 50% PT effect. It also makes sense to give funtional blocks less than 100% PT resistance (0% is probably too low) to increase the value of hull blocks and make 'naked' ships less viable.

Also, decoration blocks shouldn't stop missiles, but getting destroyed by them. This is even realistic, because impact fuses don't ignite when colliding with soft targets.


Additionally, tetras should be decoration blocks.

A diagonal slope made of tetras and pentas shouldn't be different from wedge slopes and grid-aligned (horizontal and vertical) surfaces, but currently it is. If a single layer of hull blocks is sufficient, then tetras are an unnecessary burden and should be removed to improve the ships maneuverability.

If two layers are needed then tetras are a bad solution since they only cover 50% of the surface in a triangular pattern, and diagonal slopes are at a disadvantage, unless more hull blocks are added from the inside, but then diagonal slopes are thicker than the other surfaces again.

 

[Ithirahad]

Nope. Better solution: give decoration blocks the same stats as regular hull. Otherwise people kinda have to use double layers everywhere they want to use decorative blocks if they want armor :/

(This should be true of all terrain and mineral blocks as well, including crystals, for the same and other reasons)

 

[Lecic]

Nope. Better solution: give decoration blocks the same stats as regular hull. Otherwise people kinda have to use double layers everywhere they want to use decorative blocks if they want armor :/

(This should be true of all terrain and mineral blocks as well, including crystals, for the same and other reasons)

What? Why would people have to double layer when using decorative blocks? I can understand decorative blocks that would be used externally being like you suggest (hazard stripes, crystal, lava) but I think this suggestion is more pointed at decoratives like medical stations, hanging lights, decorative computers, ect.

 

[Ithirahad]

I was thinking of externals, but come to think of it, I would want my interior decorative to have a bit of armor too, for the same reason that I build my interior walls with hardened hull... (I'm sometimes a heavy grille and mesh user too, so...)

 

[Malacodor]

If a decorative block has the HP and armor of a hull block it should have the same mass, of course. My suggestion is about blocks that are too weak to be used as hull, hence the wording "purely decorative".

 

[Valiant70]

Sometimes I like to put computers, lights, etc IN the wall instead of on the inside of it. If this were implemented, it would make decorative interiors weaker and a greater disadvantage than they already are. No support for that.

I do like the idea of massless tetras though.

 

[Ithirahad]

Malacodor : Meh. Still can limit creativity. What if someone finds a good reason to put a computer screen or medical box thing on the outside of a ship where they can't put hull under it? Sure, it's unlikely, but it's still a possibility. I'd be fine if this was just for the sprite blocks (hanging lights and the like) though.

 

[PizzaPress]

I think things that cost the same or more as hull(besides things like components), should have the same HP/Armor as it. Doors too. Doesn't make sense for logic, but works better for the gameplay.

 

[NeonSturm]

Nope. Better solution: give decoration blocks the same stats as regular hull. Otherwise people kinda have to use double layers everywhere they want to use decorative blocks if they want armor :/

(This should be true of all terrain and mineral blocks as well, including crystals, for the same and other reasons)

I already use double layers everywhere for my bridge, etc.
Simply because I don't want a decorative wall/ceiling appear on the wall/floor on the other side in another room.


I think the issue we should face is, that it is a too huge disadvantage to have hollow space (rooms, etc).

A theoretical solution would be to give each 4x4x4 mega-block hp of contents and have diminishing returns if areas are too dense. But technically it would be a horror to align things to this 4x4x4 grid.
I just pointed it out to give you a hint how I think about it.

 

[Malacodor]

Some good points were brought up. We could have normal decorative blocks with 0 HP/Armor and - where it makes sense - armored versions which have the properties of hull blocks.

 

[jorgekorke]

I would only reduce the mass of some hull blocks, making them equivalent to their size. That would encourage creating smoother ships and benefit good-looking fighters. Yet I think this will impact the performance, so maybe that's why it's not in the game.

Ex:
A common block gives 0.1 mass.

Penta blocks = 0,9 block = 0.09 mass

Wedge blocks = 0,5 block = 0.05 mass

Corner blocks = 0,3 block = 0.03 mass

Tetra blocks = 0,1 block = 0.01 mass

 

[NeonSturm]

Each ship already sums up the number of weapon blocks.

Why not sum up the number of hull blocks as well? Add one, weight+=block.weight. Remove one, weight-=block.weight. It takes a lot less calculations than -for example- collision and damage calculations.

If you prefer to check it once and then.
Blockcount ++ or -- and
new = blockcount[type] * block[type].weight
-old +new || sum(all new

 

[Malacodor]

A common block gives 0.1 mass.

Penta blocks = 0,9 block = 0.09 mass

Wedge blocks = 0,5 block = 0.05 mass

Corner blocks = 0,3 block = 0.03 mass

Tetra blocks = 0,1 block = 0.01 mass

Do you want to adapt the HP in the same way? If no, then people are encouraged to build hulls using corners and tetras only. If yes, then slopes are disadvantaged and players are encouraged to avoid them.

 

[NeonSturm]

Half mass, half hp (not more than 20% more please!), but keep armour the same.

 

[Malacodor]

Half mass, half hp (not more than 20% more please!), but keep armour the same.

This makes sense from a realistic point of view, but this way slopes will be weak points on ships.

 

[NeonSturm]

This makes sense from a realistic point of view, but this way slopes will be weak points on ships.

But then you can have more of them without suffering mass.

A stairway needs a heigh of 3 blocks - 2 blocks for you and 1 blocks to get to the next higher from a lower.
But a ramp needs only 2 heigh as you don't need to jump.
=> You get more hp with wedges

It is better to make it realistic then to make it abuse-able.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

Terrible idea.

I have never seen anyone use more than 1000 decoration blocks on a 10,000 or less mass ship (the only ship size small enough for 100 mass to matter)

All this change would do would be to add unnecessary complications to the game that is already becoming quite convoluted, especially for new players.

Please don't change the mass system. 10 blocks = 1 mass is good.

 

[Lecic]

Terrible idea.

I have never seen anyone use more than 1000 decoration blocks on a 10,000 or less mass ship (the only ship size small enough for 100 mass to matter)

All this change would do would be to add unnecessary complications to the game that is already becoming quite convoluted, especially for new players.

Please don't change the mass system. 10 blocks = 1 mass is good.

You are aware that changes like this have already been added, right? Schema is already making certain blocks heavier or lighter. I believe the terrain blocks are now heavier (correct me if I'm wrong).

This wouldn't really make the game any more convoluted, as you suggest it would.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

You are aware that changes like this have already been added, right? Schema is already making certain blocks heavier or lighter. I believe the terrain blocks are now heavier (correct me if I'm wrong).

All blocks currently have a mass of 0.1. That's why "mass" is always 1/10th of "blocks"
I have not heard of any plans to change block mass in the near future, either.

This wouldn't really make the game any more convoluted, as you suggest it would.

It really would, though.
New players would have no idea why certain blocks have mass and others don't.

There's also the problem that any block (besides trigger area blocks) having no mass just makes no sense.
If anything, something like a computer or a crystal should have far MORE mass than a terrain block, glass block, or plant.

 

[Lecic]

All blocks currently have a mass of 0.1. That's why "mass" is always 1/10th of "blocks"
I have not heard of any plans to change block mass in the near future, either.


It really would, though.
New players would have no idea why certain blocks have mass and others don't.

There's also the problem that any block (besides trigger area blocks) having no mass just makes no sense.
If anything, something like a computer or a crystal should have far MORE mass than a terrain block, glass block, or plant.

http://star-made.org/news/starmade-v0-158

• Block HP - Non hull blocks have had a reduction in their HP, this should eventually be followed by a reduction in their mass in a later patch.