Read by Council Prevent Turrets from being Built Incorrectly

[Gunseng]

I spent a couple hours building turrets today and guess how many of them work correctly right now?

Just 1 of 2. The 2nd one moves in reverse, so it seemed to be working until I put bobby AI on it then turned out to be a useless piece of junk the AI can't use.

I hate coming back to Starmade and having to watch a tutorial video (over a year old now) on which way a ship core has to be aligned with the rail docker just to build a turret and even then still hoping it's correct!

I'm shocked nothing has really been done with this by now. I'd like the experience of building a turret to actually be enjoyable.

Please either make it so any orientation will work or limit it so I can only build the correct options.

This happens every time I try to get back into Starmade and it is just making it more and more difficult to come back to. You guys do a lot of good work, which is why I'm surprised something hasn't been done about this. Is this something that can't currently be fixed?

Sorry if this subject has been brought up before, but the little time I have to put into Starmade today was all for nothing. Now I don't know if I want to put that time in again.

 

[Jaaskinal]

1) Tutorials have now been added to the game. They should hopefully encompass things like this in the future.
2) In the future test what you're going to do before you do it. Just make a small set up, and see if it does what you want, and then copy it by building something larger.

Hopefully you can return to the game without any further issues

 

[Gunseng]

1) Tutorials have now been added to the game. They should hopefully encompass things like this in the future.
2) In the future test what you're going to do before you do it. Just make a small set up, and see if it does what you want, and then copy it by building something larger.

Hopefully you can return to the game without any further issues

1) A tutorial video was what I was using and it is a year old (turret building mechanic unchanged) so it works. They only added a new way to build them with the same mechanics.

2) I did test it. I just didn't think it moving in reverse would confuse the bobby AI, usually the turret refuses to move in one axis or both when built incorrectly. This is the first time I've seen a turret move Left and Right in reverse like this even though I've been playing for a long time. Maybe I just got lucky with the way I've been building turrets.

If I can't use any OTHER orientation but 2 setups per axis, then why give me the option to build ANYTHING else? The amount of time wasted constantly jumping in and out of building mode between 2 ship cores gets tiring after so many times of testing, yet if you don't do it you could be spending insanely more amount of time fixing the dumb thing.

This is the ONLY subject I ever look up in tutorial videos EVERY time I come back to Starmade because unless you're building turrets every day you're going to spend a few times rebuilding them (even with testing) or hope your old ones work well enough to modify. I love building turrets but this is becoming more of a chore of constantly jumping to youtube to watch only 15 seconds of a tutorial that's a year old just to see which way the docking rail is facing compared to the orientation of the ship core.

 

[Nauvran]

1) A tutorial video was what I was using and it is a year old (turret building mechanic unchanged) so it works. They only added a new way to build them with the same mechanics.

2) I did test it. I just didn't think it moving in reverse would confuse the bobby AI, usually the turret refuses to move in one axis or both when built incorrectly. This is the first time I've seen a turret move Left and Right in reverse like this even though I've been playing for a long time. Maybe I just got lucky with the way I've been building turrets.

If I can't use any OTHER orientation but 2 setups per axis, then why give me the option to build ANYTHING else? The amount of time wasted constantly jumping in and out of building mode between 2 ship cores gets tiring after so many times of testing, yet if you don't do it you could be spending insanely more amount of time fixing the dumb thing.

This is the ONLY subject I ever look up in tutorial videos EVERY time I come back to Starmade because unless you're building turrets every day you're going to spend a few times rebuilding them (even with testing) or hope your old ones work well enough to modify. I love building turrets but this is becoming more of a chore of constantly jumping to youtube to watch only 15 seconds of a tutorial that's a year old just to see which way the docking rail is facing compared to the orientation of the ship core.

I dont see what's difficult about turrets.
It's really only as complicated at you make it yourself, the things you have to remember is that both cores should start with looking at the galactic north. Turrets only work if one core is controlled by the left and right mouse movement and the other by up and down.
Collition detectin is a whole other thing but that should be easy to fix if you just plan a little.

 

[terra mining corp.]

I just build mine in ship yard that way after testing can make minor changes before building actual.

 

[Zekester81]

Um, trial and error like everyone else. Seriously, turrets are not that hard. Every time they change them it takes literally a few minutes to slap a test platform together and see what happens. I'm sorry you had to think.

 

[Lukwan]

With great turret power comes great turret responsibility. :D

 

[Gunseng]

Um, trial and error like everyone else. Seriously, turrets are not that hard. Every time they change them it takes literally a few minutes to slap a test platform together and see what happens. I'm sorry you had to think.

Well and now I have to take this forum off the "no a**holes here" list. It was a good run, but someone just had to stop by to be that person.

Look I made my suggestion, asked why it is this way, and everyone is just being a bunch of d***s. I thought this was a mature community but I guess that's asking for too much these days. Have fun in Starmade, I think I'll wait another year for it to....."mature"

 

[nightrune]

Op makes a great point and everyone here just basically said "Git Gud" these forums are better then that. You are right. Right now its super hard to approach from a beginners view. I'm not sure how to fix it though.

Maybe we could just have the core default to the "correct" orientation if you are building create docking? That should cut it down. Shouldn't be procedurally hard either as you just have to look down one level of entity and see if its docked via a turret docking block. Some other visual hint would be most appreicated. Perhaps an option in build mode to highlight the core when its in the correct position would be good as well.

I dont see what's difficult about turrets.
It's really only as complicated at you make it yourself, the things you have to remember is that both cores should start with looking at the galactic north. Turrets only work if one core is controlled by the left and right mouse movement and the other by up and down.
Collition detectin is a whole other thing but that should be easy to fix if you just plan a little.

I just build mine in ship yard that way after testing can make minor changes before building actual.

Um, trial and error like everyone else. Seriously, turrets are not that hard. Every time they change them it takes literally a few minutes to slap a test platform together and see what happens. I'm sorry you had to think.

With great turret power comes great turret responsibility. :D

Well and now I have to take this forum off the "no a**holes here" list. It was a good run, but someone just had to stop by to be that person.

Look I made my suggestion, asked why it is this way, and everyone is just being a bunch of d***s. I thought this was a mature community but I guess that's asking for too much these days. Have fun in Starmade, I think I'll wait another year for it to....."mature"

 

[Nauvran]

Op makes a great point and everyone here just basically said "Git Gud" these forums are better then that. You are right. Right now its super hard to approach from a beginners view. I'm not sure how to fix it though.

Maybe we could just have the core default to the "correct" orientation if you are building create docking? That should cut it down. Shouldn't be procedurally hard either as you just have to look down one level of entity and see if its docked via a turret docking block. Some other visual hint would be most appreicated. Perhaps an option in build mode to highlight the core when its in the correct position would be good as well.

I only said it wasnt that difficult and then proceeded to explain what you need to be careful to check before and while you build ._.

 

[jstenholt]

Well and now I have to take this forum off the "no a**holes here" list. It was a good run, but someone just had to stop by to be that person.

Look I made my suggestion, asked why it is this way, and everyone is just being a bunch of d***s. I thought this was a mature community but I guess that's asking for too much these days. Have fun in Starmade, I think I'll wait another year for it to....."mature"

Do you think maybe you find a lot of assholes on forums because you perceive friendly advice as an attack on your person?

 

[Sgtwisky]

I have seen a few others with this issue as well. I am just wondering, but did you use "Create Docking" to make the turret? or did you build each half separately, then dock the gun part to the base?

I have only run into this issue one time, and it was due to me using summitry and placing a docker on the wrong side. But I build both halfs separately, I know which direction the base will move, and which direction the gun will move. I also keep in mind that the up/down, left/right and front/back of the cores should always be oriented the same way. Just like ships if you build the "Front" on what is actually the left side, things don't tend to work very well when flying/turning.

Any time I've done the above, I have not had any issues building turrets as far as the AI getting confused.

I would agree though, that it would be nice if the AI didn't care about what direction each core is facing. If its not something that can be worked around for some crazy programming reason, then a simple message saying some thing like "Your ship cores may not be aligned properly for this turret" could be shown when docking to turret rails. At least then, a player would know that there may be an issue with core orientation.

For the moment however, the only advice I can give is what I have already said about keeping in mind the orientation of your cores before/while building.

 

[Lukwan]

Look I made my suggestion, asked why it is this way, and everyone is just being a bunch of d***s. I thought this was a mature community but I guess that's asking for too much these days. Have fun in Starmade, I think I'll wait another year for it to....."mature"

Well out side of some sarcasm everyone who replied to your OP said something helpful. If by 'mature' you mean using grown-up words...that would be you. So, I will try to be more specific with my guidance.

-A good habit: the very first thing I do after spawning a core (for any purpose) is orient to galactic north. I do this for stations, ships, turrets, drones, logic doors...whatever. Orient to a cosmic reference and use the same reference each time. (Thanks Nauvran)
-Do a little test first. This works for almost everything...great idea Jaas.
-Shipyards. I don't use 'em myself but hey...whatever works. G1 TMC.
-Great power like build-skill comes with time, research, testing, trial & error and asking questions. When you ask a question you invite answers, even if you don't want to hear them.
-Empathy. Yes we feel your pain, but until they decide to revisit and safety up the turret building we are stuck using our monkey-brains.

See, the A**holes are trying to help. :p

 

[Gunseng]

Op makes a great point and everyone here just basically said "Git Gud" these forums are better then that. You are right. Right now its super hard to approach from a beginners view. I'm not sure how to fix it though.

Maybe we could just have the core default to the "correct" orientation if you are building create docking? That should cut it down. Shouldn't be procedurally hard either as you just have to look down one level of entity and see if its docked via a turret docking block. Some other visual hint would be most appreicated. Perhaps an option in build mode to highlight the core when its in the correct position would be good as well.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and understanding exactly what I'm trying to suggest. Those are great ideas. It would be awesome if they had an option in the advanced build mode to check a box [x] [Turret Helper] and it highlights where the correct placement of it would be.

I have seen a few others with this issue as well. I am just wondering, but did you use "Create Docking" to make the turret? or did you build each half separately, then dock the gun part to the base?

I have only run into this issue one time, and it was due to me using summitry and placing a docker on the wrong side. But I build both halfs separately, I know which direction the base will move, and which direction the gun will move. I also keep in mind that the up/down, left/right and front/back of the cores should always be oriented the same way. Just like ships if you build the "Front" on what is actually the left side, things don't tend to work very well when flying/turning.

Any time I've done the above, I have not had any issues building turrets as far as the AI getting confused.

I would agree though, that it would be nice if the AI didn't care about what direction each core is facing. If its not something that can be worked around for some crazy programming reason, then a simple message saying some thing like "Your ship cores may not be aligned properly for this turret" could be shown when docking to turret rails. At least then, a player would know that there may be an issue with core orientation.

For the moment however, the only advice I can give is what I have already said about keeping in mind the orientation of your cores before/while building.

I manually docked the one that worked in reverse. It's really strange. Separately each half moves normally, left/right and up/down. As soon as I connect it though it reverses left/right.

I'd rather have them spend time programming something else if it's too complex to have the bobby AI work with all orientations, but having a message like that pop up would be really helpful! Maybe something that checks to see if the turret can move in each axis successfully and displays the message if it can't. Thanks for the input, that's a good suggestion too!

Do you think maybe you find a lot of assholes on forums because you perceive friendly advice as an attack on your person?

I NEVER ASKED FOR ADVICE on building turrets and I don't need it. That's what the video in the first post I mentioned is for. I just want it to be friendlier to new players and those that come back after a while, less time spent in frustration and more time spent having fun. This is the suggestions thread.

 

[jstenholt]

I NEVER ASKED FOR ADVICE

Wow, you got unsolicited advice while posting about a problem you have on a forum?
Is this your first day on the internet? Are you literally a 15 year old?

 

[Gunseng]

Wow, you got unsolicited advice while posting about a problem you have on a forum?
Is this your first day on the internet? Are you literally a 15 year old?

As I said before, this is the Suggestions Thread. If I needed help or advice building turrets I wouldn't be posting here. Stay on topic and stop being a troll.

 

[Olxinos]

Well, this might be a suggestion thread, but this doesn't allow you to snap at other people when they're telling you they don't see the point in your suggestion (and even sometimes offer you advice).

Anyway, I don't really see how turrets could be prevented from being "built incorrectly" as the game can't guess what you're actually trying to make. There might be totally fine builds using core orientations that you'd have deemed "incorrect", and the game shouldn't discriminate them.
At most, you could have a warning message (as SgtWisky's said), alternatively I also think this would be less an issue if you could use "create docking" with a blueprint (which is something many people want) but it's unlikely to happen in the near future and you'll probably have to bear with it :/

 

[sayerulz]

Wow, you got unsolicited advice while posting about a problem you have on a forum?
Is this your first day on the internet? Are you literally a 15 year old?

When I first came on these forums, I was 15, so don't dump on ALL 15 year olds.

 

[Nauvran]

To be completely honest then I do not see any way to fix this problem, at least not with limiting how the block can be placed.
The problem there is with building turrets is as I have said before the orientation of each part of the turret. It becomes a problem when you have to use the Q/E (default keys?) to rotate a part like you rotate a ship, this is simply not possible.

The only way to really fix this is to somehow orreride the controls and make a standard for turrets so that no matter what the bottom axis will be left and right and the top axis will be up and down.

Besides this it seems that your suggestion Gunseng is rather incomplete and lacking in parts of being and actual suggestion, it feels more to be a bad request on a fix.

 

[Gunseng]

To be completely honest then I do not see any way to fix this problem, at least not with limiting how the block can be placed.
The problem there is with building turrets is as I have said before the orientation of each part of the turret. It becomes a problem when you have to use the Q/E (default keys?) to rotate a part like you rotate a ship, this is simply not possible.

The only way to really fix this is to somehow orreride the controls and make a standard for turrets so that no matter what the bottom axis will be left and right and the top axis will be up and down.

Besides this it seems that your suggestion Gunseng is rather incomplete and lacking in parts of being and actual suggestion, it feels more to be a bad request on a fix.

Yes exactly! I don't see any way to fix it either, but just adding from the great suggestions listed previously:

How about a Testing Button in build mode that will rotate each of the ship cores to see if they move correctly or not?

After it displays 1 of 2 messages:
"This is a turret"
"This is not a turret"

That could be a lot of work though, so maybe making a Turret Mode button in build mode that highlights the correct placement through the Create Docking option would be something more reasonable?