Brainstorm This Warhead Launcher Weapon

[Lecic]

The reason I see them as spammable is that a larger ship (Battleship, Carrier, or larger) would have the ability to overcome the Cargo issue by simply having massive cargo hold, given most blocks in the default build stack to (999,999.), having multiple cargo holds that could store max block stack lends itself to abuse, and 200 single shot emitters while needing a bit of ammo would at 5k damage be dealing 1mil alpha damage straight to the hull and internals shortly there after for one system, larger ships would no doubt have multiple systems just for this purpose. Also smaller craft could achieve a two emitter system (10k dmg) and never run out of ammo with the current cargo system.

Simple ways to fix this issue would be:

• Limit the number of Warheads in a stack. Example stack size could be 1000 blocks max per stack. (Using the current Cargo set up)
• Limit the number of Stacks of warheads that can be in anyone Cargo hold.
  
• New Block for Ammo Magazines that that can hold a limited number of blocks. Example Ammo Mags block could hold a maximum of 100 total warhead blocks (Not stacked blocks but blocks total). Presuming warheads are still being used as ammo. For bigger Magazines place more blocks in contact with each other. Thus small ships would have smaller payloads, and large ships could have larger payloads.
• Increase the Mass of warheads so that carrying massive numbers in cargo holds is a determent to the ships mobility.

I also noticed that the suggested max speed was 3x server, which at the moment is faster the normal missiles, and presuming that this suggestion can add slaves it would be 9x server when adding a beam slave to it, which may be moving to fast for AMS to deal with.

Possible fixes include.

• Have Max speed locked at 3x server. (Faster than normal Missile, but slower than Fast missile)
  
• Speed penalty based on size of system. Larger systems move slower. (Do not really like this one but it is an option)

Also what is the Range of this weapon? as I never saw it posted. As it stands there are 9.6km range missiles in game now (M+B), and while it may be fun to spray a large area with these, being 4 sectors over and getting shelled by a battle that one is not involved in would ruin a players day.

On a side note. While I do prefer to build launchers using logic, and gaining mastery in those fields, I am not opposed to new things either. I have unfortunately had some very bad experiences with PvP griefng over the years and tend to look at things from a prospective of a player being griefed.

Again, I am forced to ask- did you READ the thread? 200 single shot warheads would take up 40,000 blocks of storage space for ONE SHOT. With 40,000 blocks, I could make a missile launcher that did 18 million alpha and would be reusable INFINITELY.

 

[JNC]

The reason I see them as spammable is that a larger ship (Battleship, Carrier, or larger) would have the ability to overcome the Cargo issue by simply having massive cargo hold, given most blocks in the default build stack to (999,999.), having multiple cargo holds that could store max block stack lends itself to abuse, and 200 single shot emitters while needing a bit of ammo would at 5k damage be dealing 1mil alpha damage straight to the hull and internals shortly there after for one system, larger ships would no doubt have multiple systems just for this purpose. Also smaller craft could achieve a two emitter system (10k dmg) and never run out of ammo with the current cargo system.

Simple ways to fix this issue would be:

• Limit the number of Warheads in a stack. Example stack size could be 1000 blocks max per stack. (Using the current Cargo set up)
• Limit the number of Stacks of warheads that can be in anyone Cargo hold.
  
• New Block for Ammo Magazines that that can hold a limited number of blocks. Example Ammo Mags block could hold a maximum of 100 total warhead blocks (Not stacked blocks but blocks total). Presuming warheads are still being used as ammo. For bigger Magazines place more blocks in contact with each other. Thus small ships would have smaller payloads, and large ships could have larger payloads.
• Increase the Mass of warheads so that carrying massive numbers in cargo holds is a determent to the ships mobility.

I also noticed that the suggested max speed was 3x server, which at the moment is faster the normal missiles, and presuming that this suggestion can add slaves it would be 9x server when adding a beam slave to it, which may be moving to fast for AMS to deal with.

Possible fixes include.

• Have Max speed locked at 3x server. (Faster than normal Missile, but slower than Fast missile)
  
• Speed penalty based on size of system. Larger systems move slower. (Do not really like this one but it is an option)

Also what is the Range of this weapon? as I never saw it posted. As it stands there are 9.6km range missiles in game now (M+B), and while it may be fun to spray a large area with these, being 4 sectors over and getting shelled by a battle that one is not involved in would ruin a players day.

On a side note. While I do prefer to build launchers using logic, and gaining mastery in those fields, I am not opposed to new things either. I have unfortunately had some very bad experiences with PvP griefng over the years and tend to look at things from a prospective of a player being griefed.

Well... sure, if you play in creative mode? Getting 999,999 of anything in survival will be difficult unless you've got some sort of space empire working for you. If that's the case you probably deserve the right to be able to have a ton of torpedoes. You could recommend the cargo requirements be increased?

Massive alpha damage to hull? You clearly don't want these to bypass shields.... *facepalm* suggest that they don't bypass shields and move on? Besides, there aren't any blocks that can take 1mil damage except planet cores, so unless the torpedoes have penetrating aoe damage that scales based on output than almost all of that would be wasted.

Never run out of ammo?? That's how it is NOW. The suggestion is to make these tangible items, in cargo space. You would use them, and they would disappear, requiring restock. They wouldn't simply respawn or something.

- Warheads and torpedoes are separate things. The torpedoes, or 'custom missiles' if you will, use the warheads, but they are not one and the same. A custom missile would take up 1 or more whole blocks based on its output. There is no stacking.

I agree that super fast torpedoes may not be fair, but that ultimately depends on how they're implemented (assuming they are obviously) and what detriments they have.

You've been traumatized by grievers?? Obviously, if you look at Starmade "...from a prospective of a player being griefed..." you wont find it fair or enjoyable because grievers grieve. They have, do, and will continue to do so no matter... I must say, somehow you've misunderstood the OPs concepts, or you're trolling.

 

[Bladeriker]

Again, I am forced to ask- did you READ the thread? 200 single shot warheads would take up 40,000 blocks of storage space for ONE SHOT. With 40,000 blocks, I could make a missile launcher that did 18 million alpha and would be reusable INFINITELY.

True enough, but then 18 mil raw dmg would simply hit the shields, where the 1mil dmg would tear into the hull and the other systems due to ignoring shields, using far less energy to boot.

Then again the 18 mil damage system is going to need an absolutely huge energy store to even fire, where the 1mil damage system will only need a cargo system pulling extra ammo from one place to another and the energy needed to fire its 200 single emitters (Around 1mil e/sec, based on systems on ships I have constructed). We are also comparing a weapon system who's weapon size is the size of a destroyer to a system the size of drone in all fairness, and that is just the weapon system not even the necessary energy or other components required to fire it, or augment it.

As it stands energy is the ammo for all current weapon systems. Hence why I suggested the ways to further limit the warhead spam issue.

 

[DrTarDIS]

People obviously don't know what BRAINSTORMING is:

pay attention to RULE NUMBER TWO, ya lackwits

Four general rules of brainstorming, established with intention to :

• reduce social inhibitions among group members.
• stimulate idea generation.
• increase overall creativity of the group.

1. go for quantity: This rule is a means of enhancing divergent production, aiming to facilitate problem solving through the maxim quantity breeds quality. The assumption is that the greater the number of ideas generated, the bigger the chance of producing a radical and effective solution.
2. Withhold criticism: In brainstorming, criticism of ideas generated should be put 'on hold'. Instead, participants should focus on extending or adding to ideas, reserving criticism for a later 'critical stage' of the process. By suspending judgment, participants will feel free to generate unusual ideas.
3. Welcome wild ideas: To get a good and long list of ideas, wild ideas are encouraged to have. They can be generated by looking from new perspectives and suspending assumptions. These new ways of thinking might give you better solutions.
4. Combine and improve ideas:As suggested by the slogan "1+1=3". It is believed to stimulate the building of ideas by a process of association.[2]

 

[JNC]

People obviously don't know what BRAINSTORMING is:

pay attention to RULE NUMBER TWO, ya lackwits

Four general rules of brainstorming, established with intention to :

• reduce social inhibitions among group members.
• stimulate idea generation.
• increase overall creativity of the group.

1. go for quantity: This rule is a means of enhancing divergent production, aiming to facilitate problem solving through the maxim quantity breeds quality. The assumption is that the greater the number of ideas generated, the bigger the chance of producing a radical and effective solution.
2. Withhold criticism: In brainstorming, criticism of ideas generated should be put 'on hold'. Instead, participants should focus on extending or adding to ideas, reserving criticism for a later 'critical stage' of the process. By suspending judgment, participants will feel free to generate unusual ideas.
3. Welcome wild ideas: To get a good and long list of ideas, wild ideas are encouraged to have. They can be generated by looking from new perspectives and suspending assumptions. These new ways of thinking might give you better solutions.
4. Combine and improve ideas:As suggested by the slogan "1+1=3". It is believed to stimulate the building of ideas by a process of association.[2]

I apologize Bladeriker, but I just feel that you're not seeing the 'big picture' here. For instance, you're last post is assuming, entirely, that the launchers for these 'custom missiles' are super small......?

 

[Lecic]

True enough, but then 18 mil raw dmg would simply hit the shields, where the 1mil dmg would tear into the hull and the other systems due to ignoring shields, using far less energy to boot.

Then again the 18 mil damage system is going to need an absolutely huge energy store to even fire, where the 1mil damage system will only need a cargo system pulling extra ammo from one place to another and the energy needed to fire its 200 single emitters (Around 1mil e/sec, based on systems on ships I have constructed). We are also comparing a weapon system who's weapon size is the size of a destroyer to a system the size of drone in all fairness, and that is just the weapon system not even the necessary energy or other components required to fire it, or augment it.

As it stands energy is the ammo for all current weapon systems. Hence why I suggested the ways to further limit the warhead spam issue.

Then PERHAPS there should be a high power cost alongside the ammo cost to limit warheads?

 

[Bladeriker]

Well... sure, if you play in creative mode? Getting 999,999 of anything in survival will be difficult unless you've got some sort of space empire working for you. If that's the case you probably deserve the right to be able to have a ton of torpedoes. You could recommend the cargo requirements be increased?

Massive alpha damage to hull? You clearly don't want these to bypass shields.... *facepalm* suggest that they don't bypass shields and move on? Besides, there aren't any blocks that can take 1mil damage except planet cores, so unless the torpedoes have penetrating aoe damage that scales based on output than almost all of that would be wasted.

Never run out of ammo?? That's how it is NOW. The suggestion is to make these tangible items, in cargo space. You would use them, and they would disappear, requiring restock. They wouldn't simply respawn or something.

I agree that super fast torpedoes may not be fair, but that ultimately depends on how they're implemented (assuming they are obviously) and what detriments they have.

.

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. So hope I can straighten this out.

• Ignoring shields needs to change. I believe we all agree on this. Hence I felt it was touched on, but still necessary to note.
  
• I suggested Ammo Mags as a way to limit the number of warheads possible in a system. I do not recall saying anything about re-spawning in inventory, I did mention that being able to pull from one cargo storage to another would allow for having several stores of ammo.
  
• I am all for a finite number of shots which require a ship to have to resupply at a station. This system would be broken using infinite ammo.
  
• Changes to A.I. are needed no matter what happens.
  
• Also prior to creative mode I playing on an unaltered PvE server was able to amass (999,999.) amount of warheads simply by buying from stations and killing pirates. I have gotten to those amounts several times over for different blocks just from farming the mobs.

Other than that I am not trying to troll, just trying to see it from every possible prospective.

 

[JNC]

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. So hope I can straighten this out.

• Ignoring shields needs to change. I believe we all agree on this. Hence I felt it was touched on, but still necessary to note.
  
• I suggested Ammo Mags as a way to limit the number of warheads possible in a system. I do not recall saying anything about re-spawning in inventory, I did mention that being able to pull from one cargo storage to another would allow for having several stores of ammo.
  
• I am all for a finite number of shots which require a ship to have to resupply at a station. This system would be broken using infinite ammo.
  
• Changes to A.I. are needed no matter what happens.
  
• Also prior to creative mode I playing on an unaltered PvE server was able to amass (999,999.) amount of warheads simply by buying from stations and killing pirates. I have gotten to those amounts several times over for different blocks just from farming the mobs.

Other than that I am not trying to troll, just trying to see it from every possible prospective.

- There's no need to repeat your ideals with every post
- You did not mention spawning ammo, however, it was implied by a perceived misunderstanding of how the suggested ammo would be stored
- If magazines hold ammo, and cargo space can do the same, why have both? Why not store this ammo in cargo spaces? What reasons do you suggest for having a separate space for ammo aside from directly limiting the potential of these weapons (which isnt the nature of Starmade)?
- Well, our time in game is vastly different, I was never able to achieve such massive stocks; by my hand or through trade. The stations never seemed to carry much, or buy much... but i've spent much of my time in creative just building stuff.

 

[Lecic]

Ignoring shields needs to change. I believe we all agree on this. Hence I felt it was touched on, but still necessary to note.

If the warheads don't ignore shields, there's no point. You've completely missed the point of the suggestion. Congrats.

• I suggested Ammo Mags as a way to limit the number of warheads possible in a system. I do not recall saying anything about re-spawning in inventory, I did mention that being able to pull from one cargo storage to another would allow for having several stores of ammo.

• I am all for a finite number of shots which require a ship to have to resupply at a station. This system would be broken using infinite ammo.

The system for warhead storage I am suggesting is already basically an ammo mag. Only allowing these to be refilled with an ammo transfer from a station sounds perfectly fine to me and a good way to balance it. Do you mind if I add that to the op?

 

[Borr]

I think this could work like a shipyard on a ship. Build launcher on your ship (same way as you building an shipyard), load torpedo design, connect cargo space with building materials, make it build(reload), launch and reload(build) every time you hit a button. This could work as every other weapon: press G(or whatever your weapon menu button is), place your launcher computer icon in the hotbar, use as normal weapon. We also need warhead damage and radius buff, and maybe some sort of ai guidance (laser guided maybe, it will go wherever you point). Also, that kind of launcher could be used as small drone fighter launcher/builder. So many possibilities with that kind of system.

 

[HeartUponSleeve]

Like I said, I am completely fine with this as long as they do not track targets, then we could essentially have a railgun-like system, and that would be pretty interesting to experiment with, however homing missiles that completely ignore shields and do direct internal damage is stupid.