Recognized User Programmable AI, via a grid system

[alterintel]

Now that it seems we have a much more active Council maybe I can get a Recognized or Read by Council tag?
Dalmont, HolyCookie, keptick, Megacrafter127, SkylordLuke, Sven_The_Slayer, ToasterBorst

This seems like a popular idea that should be relayed to the Dev Team.
Thanks Guys
[DOUBLEPOST=1456149779,1456148047][/DOUBLEPOST]wow, thanks for the recognized tag

 

[HolyCookie]

Woa! I love this idea it fixes both the dumb AI and the problem that schema has to make a super smart AI.
We can even make torpedo AI, mine AI geez I like this a lot.
I would definitely like this, something new that I could dig into and use it to it's full potential, another advantage to have an engineer in your faction! yay.

Do you know a modern game that is simular to that playstation game?

 

[StormWing0]

I can't think of any games off hand that are remotely similar to that one but I'm sure there's a few around. If all else fails Schema could implement a low level learning AI that is faction specific and setup like your average RTS AI as the commander while pilot AIs learn how to use the ship they are in as best they can. This way it starts off stupid and gets smarter as time goes on.

 

[HolyCookie]

I can't think of any games off hand that are remotely similar to that one but I'm sure there's a few around. If all else fails Schema could implement a low level learning AI that is faction specific and setup like your average RTS AI as the commander while pilot AIs learn how to use the ship they are in as best they can. This way it starts off stupid and gets smarter as time goes on.

Statistics say that the average lifespan of an AI is one battle.

 

[StormWing0]

Statistics say that the average lifespan of an AI is one battle.

lol if done right the dead unit sends that info to its faction AI's info pool. Now the real issue is this works under a couple of situations either the units remain consistent or they are ever changing and evolving. Lets say for sanity and server owner's sake we make it so the AI factions have a specific list of BPs they use and they can't change them. Say you have 300 Drone Mc units all in one battle and assuming the Faction AI has time to make more before getting wiped out. Those 300 Drone Mc units are now telling the new ones how to handle the enemies that killed them. Now if someone goes in and replaces the BP for Drone Mc with something else the AI now has to relearn all over again and the old info it learned is adapted to the new unit while any information it can't use is ignored or deleted.

 

[alterintel]

Nope, Carnage Heart kind of has a lock on this user friendly, and fun programming style. I used to play this allot on play station one. I can try to see if I can working on an emulator for you though.

This for sure is the best option I can think to program AI's. But that's just me.

 

[HolyCookie]

lol if done right the dead unit sends that info to its faction AI's info pool. Now the real issue is this works under a couple of situations either the units remain consistent or they are ever changing and evolving. Lets say for sanity and server owner's sake we make it so the AI factions have a specific list of BPs they use and they can't change them. Say you have 300 Drone Mc units all in one battle and assuming the Faction AI has time to make more before getting wiped out. Those 300 Drone Mc units are now telling the new ones how to handle the enemies that killed them. Now if someone goes in and replaces the BP for Drone Mc with something else the AI now has to relearn all over again and the old info it learned is adapted to the new unit while any information it can't use is ignored or deleted.

don't know about it.... seems like it would be really annoying to change some of the fine AI things if they need to learn it every time you change something.
[DOUBLEPOST=1456246144,1456245968][/DOUBLEPOST]

Nope, Carnage Heart kind of has a lock on this user friendly, and fun programming style. I used to play this allot on play station one. I can try to see if I can working on an emulator for you though.

This for sure is the best option I can think to program AI's. But that's just me.

thanks for the offer, but weird enough, ps1 emulators exist. and the game itself is available! :D

 

[Lukwan]

I like the various suggestions for a grid-style AI. These grid-arrangements would lend themselves well to being 'programmed' by placing blocks the same way we make our current logic systems. Rather than clicking on an AI-block to enter a different GUI you could create your AI-Logic in a grid-like fashion in the SM world.

The AI-Logic would have a more flow-chart style of interacting with each other consistent with current game-mechanics. C-V would still be used to link outputs to inputs. I leave the details up to people who understand programming.

 

[lupoCani]

Excellent. Another suggestion for semi-programming, where I can interject- Please do this, in addition to regular, good old-fashioned Lua scripting. Seriously. Everything we can do with logic, or drag-and-drop AI, or any other control mechanism can be done many times better if everything is in text format. True advanced rail management, any and all fleet commands you can imagine, any mining, factory or inventory management, mechs, trade routes, taxi cabs, paid parking lots, hell, even a centralized exchange market, all of it and so much more is contained in a proper programming feature.

 

[Byamarro]

Excellent. Another suggestion for semi-programming, where I can interject- Please do this, in addition to regular, good old-fashioned Lua scripting. Seriously. Everything we can do with logic, or drag-and-drop AI, or any other control mechanism can be done many times better if everything is in text format. True advanced rail management, any and all fleet commands you can imagine, any mining, factory or inventory management, mechs, trade routes, taxi cabs, paid parking lots, hell, even a centralized exchange market, all of it and so much more is contained in a proper programming feature.

Ppl are afraid of text-based programming :v

 

[alterintel]

Ppl are afraid of text-based programming :v

I don't that people are afraid of it. But for me it's not very much fun. Grid based programing makes it more like a game?

 

[lupoCani]

Maintaining a game-like aesthetic doesn't seem like a very good reason to fundamentally limit what one can do with a system. Implement as many dumbed-down drag-n-drop or grid system interfaces as you want, just keep the true, text-based programming there as a fully-equipped option.

 

[Monchoman45]

There's a pretty substantial difference in the entry barrier between lua and logic blocks. Anyone can hook a button up to a door, but most people have trouble with basic scope rules.

Plus, lua is probably one of the worst programming languages. Just because it's easy to sandbox doesn't mean we should put it in everything.

 

[MacThule]

Basically outsourcing AI to the community. Brilliant!

 

[alterintel]

Basically outsourcing AI to the community. Brilliant!

This was exactly my thinking...
With this system you could program AI to do virtually anything ie, torpedos, mines, anti-missile mines, cargo freighters, etc...

 

[Sgtwisky]

I only have 2 things to say:

1. Amazing idea. Really like it.

2. That game, although old, looks really REALLY interesting.

 

[lupoCani]

There's a pretty substantial difference in the entry barrier between lua and logic blocks. Anyone can hook a button up to a door, but most people have trouble with basic scope rules.

Wow, are there are people out there who think it would be a good idea to force users to learn text based scripting to play a video game? Just how dead do you want this game?

Just because you think your own farts smell amazing because you can script basic AI doesn't mean it's even a decent idea for starmade.

Oh will people please drop this strawman of "forcing people to program"? Never should one have to program something to enjoy the game, and these various drag-and-drop systems are a good approach to a middle ground. All I'm arguing is that conventional scripting should exist, as an option.

 

[MacThule]

Oh will people please drop this strawman of "forcing people to program"? Never should one have to program something to enjoy the game, and these various drag-and-drop systems are a good approach to a middle ground. All I'm arguing is that conventional scripting should exist, as an option.

It's like "Wow, so there are people out there who want to force players to build their own spaceship, piece by piece, to play a video game?"

 

[ca2longoria]

I'm up for a 2d grid system. I'll pass on the LUA, doesn't fit StarMade's cartoonish style and Schema's preference for leaving everything to blocks. More fun in a game to be intuitive with a new set of rules than be strictly script-savvy.

 

[Plazmatic]

I'm up for a 2d grid system. I'll pass on the LUA, doesn't fit StarMade's cartoonish style and Schema's preference for leaving everything to blocks. More fun in a game to be intuitive with a new set of rules than be strictly script-savvy.

The problem I have with this is that I've never found a 2D system that ended up being easier to work with than normal programming. They all end up being convoluted and annoying to use. Additionally theres no need to exclude LUA from the game considering you are likely going to be making the grid system on top of LUA any way. If you spent the effort to learn the visual programming style you could have spent less time learning LUA.