Fix StarMade, Release the frakkin API!

[ShadowPilot]

Now we're learning a hard lesson, don't troll my topics. I can reciprocate.

 

[nightrune]

We actually stick to it,
the current fleet systems are frameworks for systems that build upon them.
Starting with stellar diversity, npc factions and other faction management systems.

Its a bit like with shipyards:

- buy by block was one step toward them
- blueprint meta-items another
- rails were also added to be used by them, as the regular docking caused a lot of trouble with them

The shipyard itself was the tip of a pile of functions that had to be worked out to make them become part of the game.

However, we cannot fully plan ahead every single detail.
The old AI was ship based/focused, and making it fly in formations or keep them together was kind of hard, to add (AI-)fleets that actually serve a purpose the AI had to move up one level from ship AI to fleet AI.
Those problems or detours arise when actually implementing stuff to the next goal, and sometimes it just more convenient to overhaul a side system, than trying build something on sand pillars which can fall apart any time.

- Andy

There are things right now that could really help both admins/schine going into the future. A basic admin only Lua console with only the same interactions as a player could let anyone that's testing something build a small test script and automate large sections of their work. I know/understand that's a bit of an undertaking but tools like that help you leverage time that all of us need.

An interaction like run "large_weapon_pen_testing.lua" -> Spawns blueprint 1, moves to x1,y1,z1, spawns blueprint 2, moves to x2,y2,z2, aim entity 1 at 2, fire, then verify expected damage patterns.

The interaction would allow: run "pirates_attack_trading_fleet.lua" -> Pick random sector with players (a little harder as you need sql access), spawn blueprints with faction trade guild, spawn blueprints with faction pirates, Allow battle to happen

Those two things are huuuge with a weeks time. Speeding up testing overtime and giving some livelyness to servers that need just a little extra.

 

[Edymnion]

Now we're learning a hard lesson, don't troll my topics. I can reciprocate.

Well, while we're learning lessons, here's a nice tutorial:

 

[Pacific_Jim]

For the life of me I can't figure out why people aren't responding to you well

On topic, modding support and API is really something for Beta more than Alpha. As other people have said, it's a time and manpower investment upfront which is time that could be spent improving fleets, NPCs etc. And even after it's done it involves manpower to keep the thing up to date, and every feature added would have to be built around it.

 

[StormWing0]

Now we're learning a hard lesson, don't troll my topics. I can reciprocate.

lol you are the one bringing the attacks on yourself pal. Also I've watched yo attack people only to get hit back in return for being a soon to be ignored by the whole community person.

 

[Edymnion]

Off-topic here, but didn't most of the forum suggestions ask for a warp/hyperspace drive á la Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, etc.? Whatever made you guys decide to put that off for eventual implementation as a capital ship system rather than as the standard form of FTL in the game?

I would assume its because both the warpgates and the jump drive use the same mechanics, the admin teleport command.

Thats really simple and easy to code, was probably already in the game as an admin command (dunno, the jump drive predates me), and all they had to do was add some animation to make it look prettier.

 

[jontyfreack]

slightly off topic. but definitely relevant.

sometimes I see people complaining that the forums are toxic and cancer to the community, but I was lucky enough to be graced with caring, polite, people whenever I entered a thread to discuss or argue a point to someone who didn't fully understand something. we would always come to an agreement, even if it took a while, but non of us would have resorted to violence, everything would be "oh I didn't take that into consideration" or "now do you see my point as how I see it?" "yes, but I must say blah blah is not exactly a very good idea"

however after reading one certain persons messages on this thread I think I might need chemotherapy.


be polite in threads people, it kinda helps to understand someone's views on a subject. especially if one doesn't accuse someone of attacking them when they themselves are being rude to anyone who puts their view into this thread.


-jontyfreack, the cookie-monster-dreadnaught-

 

[Reilly Reese]

In English, we capitalize words that are proper nouns—that is, they describe a specific thing or entity. They could be a title, a name, or a specific place such as the president's residence: [THE White House]

Again you're too basic to be capitalized as an individual. You dont engrish much do you.

I love how you don't understand anything.

 

[FlyingDebris]

Flyingdebris do I need to add you to steam so you'll stop your baseless accusations? Just about anyone that can properly make a retaliatory statement you refer to as Blackhawk. Are you that scared of him that you fear he's always lurking as someone else?
[DOUBLEPOST=1459440072,1459440016][/DOUBLEPOST]What I'm saying is that if you attack me, I attack back.

Hardly baseless when to my knowledge I've yet to be wrong when making such allegations publicly.

Secondly, adding me on steam is hardly a good proof, seeing as to the account Oronoscus had a steam account for 'proof' earlier, and was later found out as an alternate account of Zorozeenee and promptly banned. Now please, have some coherency in your arguments instead of pointless shitslinging. Or is that too much to ask?

Now, as to the API question, it's a waste of dev time to work on a relatively useless feature of the game when so many other aspects need work. An API, if introduced, should only be included when the game has exited alpha, and preferably when or after it has been released. The whole point of a modding API is for the community to make things for the game, but why would they bother if there is no game, nor a community?

 

[kiraen]

For Gnomoria the modding api was literally the last thing to be coded before 1.0 release.
Minecraft never released an api at all, Forge is a third party hack that Mojong turns a blind eye towards.

 

[Captain Tankman]

I'm reading this thread like

As basicly everyone here stated:
We first need to have all basics in this game to build an API upon.
You can't build a hous on only half a foundation....

 

[Gasboy]

You could ask yourself the same question when every suggestion or discussion is met by you and your cronies with hostility. I made but a simple statement directed towards the devs. In which I received hostile rejection. The only one who I have seen make an unsarcastic, unbiased, informed response has been Rune.

Both Bench and Andy have made polite replies.

And you are as biased as any here. You keep saying the same stuff over and over.

You don't seem willing to accept that none us here think an API is a bad thing. Only the timing that you're flat out demanding is bad.

If you are wondering why we're put off by you, it's because you started right off in your first post as demanding and insulting. You insinuate that only modders can add content, and that the coders should stick to coding the engine.

You're the one who has completely missed or ignored the point: The API will come. Demanding it fit your schedule will not magically make it so. We all would like an API. It just seems that we're more patient than you.

The fact that we are okay with the timeline does not make us fanboys. Time and again players have taken Schine to task over a variety of issues. We have argued amongst ourselves over them. We're not coddling Schine. We're also choosing not to whip them either.

 

[FlyingDebris]

Hardly baseless when to my knowledge I've yet to be wrong when making such allegations publicly.

Secondly, adding me on steam is hardly a good proof, seeing as to the account Oronoscus had a steam account for 'proof' earlier, and was later found out as an alternate account of Zorozeenee and promptly banned. Now please, have some coherency in your arguments instead of pointless shitslinging. Or is that too much to ask?

Now, as to the API question, it's a waste of dev time to work on a relatively useless feature of the game when so many other aspects need work. An API, if introduced, should only be included when the game has exited alpha, and preferably when or after it has been released. The whole point of a modding API is for the community to make things for the game, but why would they bother if there is no game, nor a community?

And like the prophecy fortold, it would appear the account ShadowPilot has been permanently banned, as the user's account is no longer available.

https://starmadedock.net/members/shadowpilot.671777/

Unsurprising, frankly.

 

[StormWing0]

lol Mod + Ban Hammer + Idiot = Perma-Banned Idiot. <------And that's putting it nicely. XD

 

[Master_Artificer]

It has come to my attention that people do not know what they are talking about.

While going off just the title and some off hand comments people made about this thread without actually reading it, I will assume someone is asking for an API.

I regret to inform said person that the API is a long way off and will require a much more complete game. Maybe sometime around mid to late beta.

An API basically has hooks in each part of the game code that is required to be extremely well documented and minimalistic. It basically allows modders to override core game features or inject there own features into the game itself.
However, this is a very time consuming task and works best to implement when the core game features are already completed, aka out of alpha, so every time you add something you don't need to hook it all up with the API and also troubleshoot any quirks that arise from that process (and you will have your hands full finding issues with the new feature itself), and when you remove something you then aren't erasing a big chunk of well documented and organized code that you spent time making nice. It slows down game development and when implemented makes each new release take more effort and hence longer to put out.
This is why almost all games that eventually have it, have it implemented in mid/late beta or when the game itself is released in its entirety (or after).

Its like someone throwing you a blank dictionary with a pile of words and telling you that you not only need to sort all the words, but add definitions for them as well, and keep in mind that we will be throwing you a few thousand more each other week to add to the book and parse into your pages. And each time that happens the definitions are scrambled.

I hope that makes it more understandable as to why something like an API hasn't arose yet.


Now based on peoples reaction images, I can only assume this thread is worth reading and I will begin that now.

 

[Reilly Reese]

It has come to my attention that people do not know what they are talking about.

While going off just the title and some off hand comments people made about this thread without actually reading it, I will assume someone is asking for an API.

I regret to inform said person that the API is a long way off and will require a much more complete game. Maybe sometime around mid to late beta.

An API basically has hooks in each part of the game code that is required to be extremely well documented and minimalistic. It basically allows modders to override core game features or inject there own features into the game itself.
However, this is a very time consuming task and works best to implement when the core game features are already completed, aka out of alpha, so every time you add something you don't need to hook it all up with the API and also troubleshoot any quirks that arise from that process (and you will have your hands full finding issues with the new feature itself), and when you remove something you then aren't erasing a big chunk of well documented and organized code that you spent time making nice. It slows down game development and when implemented makes each new release take more effort and hence longer to put out.
This is why almost all games that eventually have it, have it implemented in mid/late beta or when the game itself is released in its entirety (or after).
Its like someone throwing you a blank dictionary with a pile of words and telling you that you not only need to sort all the words, but add definitions for them as well, and keep in mind that we will be throwing you a few thousand more each other week to add to the book and parse into your pages.


Now based on peoples reaction images, I can only assume this thread is worth reading and I will begin that now.

ShadowPilot is banned. He won't be reading this response.

 

[StormWing0]

ShadowPilot is banned. He won't be reading this response.

lol yep a mod swung a ban hammer nuke at him and he's likely plastered all over the nearby mountains. XD

 

[Master_Artificer]

Okay this went downhill quite fast. Jeeze.

Its cool to see bench and andyp reply to topics like these, I only wish though that they had actually stopped the spitefulness of this thread.

 

[nightrune]

I regret to inform said person that the API is a long way off and will require a much more complete game. Maybe sometime around mid to late beta.

A tried and true modding API is way off. Getting super deep into the game would be silly and I agree with almost everyone in here on that, but there is something that would be simpler and still add a ton of power for both developers, and admins.

The basic idea is a Lua based developer console. The only things exposed to it are the same things you can do as a character. Just expose the functions that are used by the UI. These are likely the functions that need to get written any and will be reused even if the UI is rewritten.

1) This is fairly simple and CRAZY powerful. With a little time this could make events like blood and steel very easy. As an admin and if lua was given access to load an external file, you could easily create an xml/json bracket and load the next set of players with out a lot of the manual loading commands.

2) Writing and creating developer test scripts. It would be much easier to write a script that built and tested a lot of mechanics at once. This is going to help testing fleet mechanics when you add offline mode. You could pretty simply write a script to spawn x of a ship in faction y, and z of another ship in faction a. Then teleport away. Come back log results and test a lot more rapidly. Its also easier to load test this way. As you can create and load many things and teleport them away.

3) If someone wanted to. This would allow more admins to run events. Granted they have to be there for the event. Just being able to query if a specific structure or block is in a place allows DnD like adventures where the admin can control the environment in a way a player couldn't. Specifically calling in waves after they place a certain block. Or having the console say and act as an NPC. With just template access and block placing you could write a script to procedurally generate planets crusts. These are things the player can already do. They just need exposed to something a program can manipulate.

Hopefully people can see what this could mean for an active community now vs 3 years from now. I want a tool good for devs and admins that is valuable now, and into beta. I don't even think it needs to be perfect or complete at first.

Its simply a power tool designed to help both the community and devs make the game we've all wanted for ages.

 

[Gasboy]

I don't even think it needs to be perfect or complete at first.

Your idea has merit, though that line there is the line that kills your idea. If it was not a complete "light" API, you would have people here raging, complaining that Schine has added yet another incomplete feature to StarMade.