Read by Council Knife to a Gun Fight

[Lecic]

I would gladly put a shield tank up against an armor tank of equal mass any day of the week.

Mass? Not block count? Your tricks are clever, but I can see through them. Never the less, please, name the mass of one of your shield tanks.

 

[Winterhome]

Yeah, it's clear that you've never used or fought against an armored ship.

In capital battles, the armor/structure phase lasts several minutes compared to the several seconds it takes to drop shields.

 

[Jake_Lancia]

Went to look it up, grabbed the wrong number, its still insignificant when its so easy to make weapons that spit damage out in the hundreds of thousands or millions. 4k EHP per block or 1 per block, makes no difference against dreadnaught or titan sized guns.

I would gladly put a shield tank up against an armor tank of equal mass any day of the week.

I thought you hated titans with a vengeance.

On another note, an armor tank properly set up will murder a shield tank of equal or even larger mass, by sheer virtue of being able to stay in a fight far, FAR longer than a ship dedicated to shields would.

 

[Edymnion]

Okay then, I'm confused here, lets get back to the topic.

The argument against this is that they would be horribly overpowered if they bypassed shields. And yet you're going to all this effort to belittle me and say that armor is so much better than shielding, which wouldn't that just mean that it wouldn't matter?

So if shields go down instantly in your world and armor is all that matters, who cares if they bypass shields in the first place?

 

[Lecic]

Okay then, I'm confused here, lets get back to the topic.

The argument against this is that they would be horribly overpowered if they bypassed shields. And yet you're going to all this effort to belittle me and say that armor is so much better than shielding, which wouldn't that just mean that it wouldn't matter?

So if shields go down instantly in your world and armor is all that matters, who cares if they bypass shields in the first place?

Because armor is not uncrackable, and either the knives will be strong enough to get through armor and do damage (in which case, knife drills occur), or they'll be completely fucking worthless.

 

[Zyrr]

Because this assumes equal mass ships fighting. A 20 mass ship bypassing a titan's 20 million shields is unbalanced.

 

[Jake_Lancia]

Okay then, I'm confused here, lets get back to the topic.

The argument against this is that they would be horribly overpowered if they bypassed shields. And yet you're going to all this effort to belittle me and say that armor is so much better than shielding, which wouldn't that just mean that it wouldn't matter?

So if shields go down instantly in your world and armor is all that matters, who cares if they bypass shields in the first place?

The problem is that your weapon idea completely nullifies any purpose shields have. Right now, shields are a first line of defense. If your idea was implemented, they would cease to matter.

 

[Lecic]

Because this assumes equal mass ships fighting. A 20 mass ship bypassing a titan's 20 million shields is unbalanced.

Correction; A 20 mass ship bypassing 20mil shields with a reusable, non-detrimental-to-your-own-health-to-have-on-board weapon is unbalanced.

 

[FlyingDebris]

This should not be the norm.
Single small ships should get ganked by stuff exponentially larger than them. Unless you're a 5/7 pilot like me and are just naturally better than everyone. (jk, the above was pure luck.)

 

[Edymnion]

The problem is that your weapon idea completely nullifies any purpose shields have. Right now, shields are a first line of defense. If your idea was implemented, they would cease to matter.

But you're all jumping to the conclusions that either the blades have to stack power like other weapons (they don't), or that they have to ignore all armor completely to be worth using (which is also false).

It doesn't have to be strong enough to slice a titan in half in one pass. It doesn't even need to be strong enough to cut through armor in one hit.

This assumption that it has to either completely overpower every other weapon in the game or else be totally useless is just... wrong IMO. Based on that thinking, no new weapons can ever be added to the game. You're dismissing entire concepts out of hand simply because you assume it has to be implemented in the worst possible way for you?

 

[Winterhome]

There are only two possibilities. Either it breaks advanced armor with each hit, which makes it overpowered as fuck, or it's completely useless in every single situation.

 

[Zyrr]

Because every facet of what you just suggested is the worst possible way you could hamfist a melee weapon. You could literally slap thrusters and power on a plate of this and hold yourself on a titan until it dies.

/thread

 

[Lecic]

It doesn't have to be strong enough to slice a titan in half in one pass. It doesn't even need to be strong enough to cut through armor in one hit.

If you want it to be useful in any sense of the word, yes, it does need to be able to get through armor in one hit.

This assumption that it has to either completely overpower every other weapon in the game or else be totally useless is just... wrong IMO. Based on that thinking, no new weapons can ever be added to the game. You're dismissing entire concepts out of hand simply because you assume it has to be implemented in the worst possible way for you?

Not what anyone is saying, but ok. Weapons need to add something unique to the game. What does this really add that warheads don't, besides being stronger and reusable?

 

[StormWing0]

Basically all this idea looks like to me is a lower damage version of the warhead that can be reused. Having a ship to ship energy blade would be interesting.

 

[Edymnion]

There are only two possibilities. Either it breaks advanced armor with each hit, which makes it overpowered as fuck, or it's completely useless in every single situation.

So... tell me how you get any weapon in the game that doesn't have that applied to it? That it either has to treat armor like it doesn't exist or it isn't worth firing?

Weapons need to add something unique to the game. What does this really add that warheads don't, besides being stronger and reusable?

There are no melee weapons of any kind in this game.

Because every facet of what you just suggested is the worst possible way you could hamfist a melee weapon. You could literally slap thrusters and power on a plate of this and hold yourself on a titan until it dies.

Well here's a novel idea, instead of saying "I don't like how you implimented the idea, therefore the entire thing is worthless", how about you try being constructive and help brainstorm a way to make it work in a manner which you approve?

 

[Zyrr]

It doesn't work. That's the point. We already have a balanced version of this and it's called a warhead.

 

[Lecic]

There are no melee weapons of any kind in this game.

Damage Pulse Computer - StarMade Wiki

 

[Edymnion]

It doesn't work. That's the point. We already have a balanced version of this and it's called a warhead.

And we're back to claiming that the warhead is balanced and useful? Really?

 

[Jake_Lancia]

There are no melee weapons of any kind in this game.

They're called warheads. Sure, they're one-time use, but they're there.

Well here's a novel idea, instead of saying "I don't like how you implimented the idea, therefore the entire thing is worthless", how about you try being constructive and help brainstorm a way to make it work in a manner which you approve?

It simply will not work, and it brings nothing unique to the game. Therefore, it is not needed. Case closed.
[DOUBLEPOST=1455572247,1455572174][/DOUBLEPOST]

And we're back to claiming that the warhead is balanced and useful? Really?

Well at least they work and they don't instakill a titan in one hit.

 

[Edymnion]

Damage Pulse Computer - StarMade Wiki

If you think a suicide vest (albeit one that does not blow you up) is a melee weapon, that might be the source of the issue here, because we're clearly not using the word to mean the same thing.