Read by Council Knife to a Gun Fight

[Lecic]

How about this: They use a minimal amount of power, but when they hit another block they use up a shit ton of power, and they don't turn back on for like, I dunno, 5 minutes or so?

So then you stack a shitload of them on top of eachother. Unless they're actually blocks and not just a short range weapon, in which case... I hope you've got your bags packed, because we're moving to lag city.

 

[Edymnion]

I can guarantee you that this will not be used for "surgical strikes." It's going to be used for nothing but drill ships and massive melee plates that vaporize entire ships in an instant. You cannot have a shield ignoring weapon that is constant.

Sure you can.

Have each one do a set amount of damage per block, and only blocks that make physical contact deal damage and only to the blocks they make contact to.

You wanna make a huge plate? Great, it hits the outermost areas of the ship and stops, and you've got maybe 3-4 blocks doing damage to 3-4 other blocks.

 

[Lecic]

You wanna make a huge plate? Great, it hits the outermost areas of the ship and stops, and you've got maybe 3-4 blocks doing damage to 3-4 other blocks.

And what happens after you break those 3-4 blocks, huh? You hit the blocks behind them... and then the blocks behind them... and so on. RIP your actual ship, slain by a shitty melee plate covered in spikes.

 

[Edymnion]

And what happens after you break those 3-4 blocks, huh?

You move down a layer. All the while the rest of you is taking a pounding from their turrets, and they're maneuvering to get out from under you. You, having decided to fly a giant sheet of death plywood are going to have horrible turning radius and aren't going to be able to easily maneuver to follow them.

 

[Andem]

Back to the core Idea, are they blocks or little lightsaber things?

 

[Lecic]

You move down a layer. All the while the rest of you is taking a pounding from their turrets, and they're maneuvering to get out from under you. You, having decided to fly a giant sheet of death plywood are going to have horrible turning radius and aren't going to be able to easily maneuver to follow them.

What turrets? The turrets are on the exterior of the ship. They're the first thing to die.

And even if the death plate doesn't work, what about the death drill?

Have you ever played Reassembly? Melee is easily the most overpowered thing in the entire game, for the same reasons as the melee you're suggesting. You'll be adding the same kind of thing to Starmade by doing this.

 

[Edymnion]

A weapon that makes small ships blatantly overpowered?

Man, what could possibly go wrong?

If by "overpowered" you mean "Where a human pilot would ever consider one worth flying", then yes, you are correct.

When the only thing human players ever "should" be flying by the game's design is a titan, and anything smaller is relegated to drone status or pirate ships, then something is very wrong.

 

[Zyrr]

starmade.badlose.com:4242

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game is even more broken if fighters can fly infinite hit weapons that bypass shields and armor and can instakill titans

literally and figuratively, it's time for SMdock to get good

 

[Edymnion]

game is even more broken if fighters can fly infinite hit weapons that bypass shields and armor and can instakill titans

Uh, who said anything about bypassing armor and insta-killing titans?

If anything this would make armor actually important to anything bigger than a fighter.

 

[Lecic]

If by "overpowered" you mean "Where a human pilot would ever consider one worth flying", then yes, you are correct.

When the only thing human players ever "should" be flying by the game's design is a titan, and anything smaller is relegated to drone status or pirate ships, then something is very wrong.

You aren't Luke Skywalker, buddy. A small ship is going to get wrecked by a big ship unless you've got plenty of backup. That's the way the game currently is, and the way the game should stay.

 

[Edymnion]

You aren't Luke Skywalker, buddy. A small ship is going to get wrecked by a big ship unless you've got plenty of backup. That's the way the game currently is, and the way the game should stay.

As it should.

Don't confuse me with the people that think a single fighter should ever take down a titan. Thats not what this is about. This is about saying a fighter even being allowed to damage a titan at all.

One fighter with blades still isn't going to take one down, because it won't do enough damage to really hurt it. At best its still just religated to picking off turrets.

Anything big enough to pack enough blade punch to actually threaten a titan is also going to be big enough for the titan's turrets to easily hit from half a sector away, making it suicidal for them to get that close as it is now.

Has nothing to do with fighters killing titans one on one and everything to do with fighters being a threat to titans in large numbers, which currently they are not.

I don't care how many isanths you throw at a titan, they're never going to actually destroy it without server breaking amounts of them.

 

[Lecic]

Uh, who said anything about bypassing armor and insta-killing titans?

Bypassing shields means you can always bruteforce your way past armor.

If anything this would make armor actually important to anything bigger than a fighter.

>doesn't think armor isn't important on anything bigger than a fighter

I... have no words. Please actually learn to play the game, thanks.

 

[Edymnion]

I... have no words. Please actually learn to play the game, thanks.

I've played it quite a bit, thank you.

Unless you're flying around with armor at least a half dozen layers thick, even advanced armor is useless. Anything that can take down shields numbering in the millions is going to have weapons that can vaporize advanced armor in a single hit as well.

On a titan, if your shields are down, you're already dead.

 

[Lecic]

Has nothing to do with fighters killing titans one on one and everything to do with fighters being a threat to titans in large numbers, which currently they are not.
I don't care how many isanths you throw at a titan, they're never going to actually destroy it without server breaking amounts of them.

Are you joking? Drone swarms are a huge threat. Of course Isanths aren't going to work without breaking the server, because they're crap.

Unless you're flying around with armor at least a half dozen layers thick, even advanced armor is useless. Anything that can take down shields numbering in the millions is going to have weapons that can vaporize advanced armor in a single hit as well.

You poor, ignorant soul.

 

[Zyrr]

 

[Edymnion]

You poor, ignorant soul.

Advanced Armor has 100 hp per block, and 75% armor.

Meaning it only takes a total of 400 raw damage in one hit to break it. Thats what, a cannon array of roughly 250 barrels before any other modifications are made? Machine gun that with overdrive big enough to still destroy one block of armor per hit and you'll chew through the stuff like it wasn't even there, and it won't take that big of an overall array to do it.

You get enough armor layers on there to even stand up to more than a couple seconds of fire, and you'll need half a sun's worth of docked reactors just to move it.

You even said yourself that bypassing shields means you can bruteforce your way past armor.

Armor is an emergency backup for you to jump out on after your shields go down.

 

[CaptainTaz]

maybe they have a limit to the max number of blocks they can damage before they "turn off" and need to recharge for a time (and increase power draw) dependent on how big the blades are. Then they're not infinite use, and you can't drill through a ship just by getting your face rammed into it.

In an average fight if your power gets drawn on too hard you can easily lose engine power and not be able to maneuver out of weapons fire. not to mention, as stated before, getting close to a large ship is suicidal for small ones without backup.

A small fighter with a blade attacking a titan would be about as effective as taking a scalpel to an elephant. Sure, you'll make a few cuts, but that elephant is not going to be happy about it.

 

[Lecic]

Advanced Armor has 100 hp per block, and 75% armor.

Thank you for confirming you've never actually tried an armor-based ship, or even fought anyone using an armor-based ship. Advanced armor has 250 HP and 75% armor. With both passives on, advanced has something like 4000 EHP.

 

[Edymnion]

Thank you for confirming you've never actually tried an armor-based ship, or even fought anyone using an armor-based ship. Advanced armor has 250 HP and 75% armor. With both passives on, advanced has something like 4000 EHP.

Went to look it up, grabbed the wrong number, its still insignificant when its so easy to make weapons that spit damage out in the hundreds of thousands or millions. 4k EHP per block or 1 per block, makes no difference against dreadnaught or titan sized guns.

I would gladly put a shield tank up against an armor tank of equal mass any day of the week.

 

[Zyrr]

Your game understanding just got absolutely blown out of the water. I think we can effectively close this thread now