How long will it be before we see the first stick carrier?

    Joined
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages
    745
    Reaction score
    158
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    So now that you can use the thrust of all the docked entities. It would be possible to build a throw away carrier or jump ship. Or simply one just not meant for battle.

    Imagine a long stick with docking points along it. In fact done right you could have drones layer or player pilots docked on top of each other allowing for a huge squadron to reach a point.

    Not sure what the limit would be currently one could dock and move like that.
    It might be fun to find out.

    Given the fact people can now contact dock with a rail to a rail docker. It is very important to have faction blocks on each ship and permission blocks. Otherwise anyone who docks to the ship in that manner gains control. Try it out if you don't know what I mean reverse dock.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: GreenScrapBot

    NeonSturm

    StormMaker
    Joined
    Dec 31, 2013
    Messages
    5,110
    Reaction score
    617
    • Wired for Logic
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    Given the fact people can now contact dock with a rail to a rail docker. It is very important to have faction blocks on each ship and permission blocks. Otherwise anyone who docks to the ship in that manner gains control. Try it out if you don't know what I mean reverse dock.
    Dr Evil

    You don't need a stick. Just a flag-ship
     

    AtraUnam

    Maiden of crashes
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2013
    Messages
    1,120
    Reaction score
    866
    • Railman Gold
    • Competition Winner - Small Fleets
    • Wired for Logic Gold
    This is similiar to an idea I had a while back for a combat insertion sled. It essentially functions like a drop pod with a large armor plate on the front and oversized boosters on the back. A fighter would use it to rapidly and safely deploy into the middle of a battle, discarding it upon arival.
     

    nightrune

    Wizard/Developer/Project Manager
    Joined
    May 11, 2015
    Messages
    1,324
    Reaction score
    577
    • Schine
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Thinking Positive
    This is similiar to an idea I had a while back for a combat insertion sled. It essentially functions like a drop pod with a large armor plate on the front and oversized boosters on the back. A fighter would use it to rapidly and safely deploy into the middle of a battle, discarding it upon arival.
    So if they get shipyard automation right, then I can build this on my planet and auto send sleds of drones to a pirate station and harass them!
     

    Mariux

    Kittenator
    Joined
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages
    1,822
    Reaction score
    658
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Silver 1
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    Imagine a three dimentional grid-carrier made of cubical drones. That would be awesome and probably quite effective, too.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: GRHayes
    Joined
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages
    745
    Reaction score
    158
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    Dr Evil

    You don't need a stick. Just a flag-ship
    The point is you don't need a flag ship. You can use a throw away pile of junk and jump a fleet into position. they could fly around that way as well. It needs no shielding weapons or anything because it is disposable. You don't have to even sink an effort into armor or power. It simply uses the thrust and so on of the docked ships. Those could be a 100 small ships to 4 large ships and many small ships to 10,000 ships of any type.
     

    Lecic

    Convicted Lancake Abuser
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages
    5,115
    Reaction score
    1,228
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 11
    The point is you don't need a flag ship. You can use a throw away pile of junk and jump a fleet into position. they could fly around that way as well. It needs no shielding weapons or anything because it is disposable. You don't have to even sink an effort into armor or power. It simply uses the thrust and so on of the docked ships. Those could be a 100 small ships to 4 large ships and many small ships to 10,000 ships of any type.
    You'd need quite a lot of JDs and power generation for any meaningful fleet movement.
     
    Joined
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages
    745
    Reaction score
    158
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    You'd need quite a lot of JDs and power generation for any meaningful fleet movement.
    True it can still be built into a stick. There also is no reason each ship couldn't have built in power transfer they just shut off when not connected.

    Actually there is only a requirement for 1 jump module and 1 computer it just takes longer to charge. Power is 10000+ 50xnumber of modules.
    https://starmadepedia.net/wiki/Jump_Drive_Computer

    You could build a stick that is 1Km long and 3 blocks wide. Then you are talking ignoring the inner core of it. 8*1000*50+10000 as power requirement. So then you are talking 410,000 power which is small. When you consider how many ships you could have applying power. You could still have a stick if you build it with a diameter of 5.

    Now if you want a way to visualize this think of a shaft 1Km that is 5x5 the entire length. every 5 spaces is a rail under it a single At one end is a core with a jump computer and inner ship connection and an activation module the activation module is connect to all the rails.

    now make a cube ship 5x5x5 on the bottom a rail docker on the right, left and top face 1 rail in the center. you put and activator at the bottom rail docker connected to an inverter connected to the left and right rails. What this will do is when the it gets undocked all ships attached to it will also undock.

    In side you have 1 power transfer beam aimed down with a compute. so far we used 4 out of the 27 internal blocks.
    Just the 4000 directly connected to the stick would provide 960,000 power with those 1 beam per second. Each delivering 240 a tick.
    You could stack 200 of these small ships in a single line from end to end on that stick. Then you could layer them

    Now fill the stick up 1 layer deep that is 8 *200 = 1600 small craft. 3x3-1=8
    2 layers would be 24*200 ; 5x5-1=24
    3 layers would be 48*200 ; 7x7-1=48
    4 layers would be 80*200 ; 9x9-1=80

    You could do other shapes sizes and power levels they don't need to be cubes by any means.

    Went ahead and built the guts of the drone I am talking about. It automatically turns power transfer on when docked and turns it off when undocked. 1850 power generation a second for the drone gives nearly an unlimited firing time add 2 power blocks and it will be. Not sure I would count on them lasting that long.
    But imagine a thousand of these things attacking. or 16,000 of them in a single stick ship that is layered 4 deep. If you are wondering how many blocks the entire ship would be at a 1 km length. 5x5x1000 for the core 125x16000 for the drones. Total blocks would be 2,025,000 blocks. It would look like a 45x45x1000 stick. Hence the name stick ship.

    Drone features.
    (2) 5 length Canon x Canon.
    Bobbi AI
    4 thrusters
    Auto transfer power on dock shuts off one undock.
    Undocks drones attached to it on undock as well. So undock one undocks many.
    You can stack drones on top left and right.
    I left the armor off you put what you prefer on it.
     

    Attachments

    Last edited:

    Lecic

    Convicted Lancake Abuser
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages
    5,115
    Reaction score
    1,228
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 11
    ctually there is only a requirement for 1 jump module and 1 computer it just takes longer to charge. Power is 10000+ 50xnumber of modules.
    https://starmadepedia.net/wiki/Jump_Drive_Computer
    And how long do you think that'll take to charge, outside of certain exploits that the devs have asked us to not share on the forums?

    But imagine a thousand of these things attacking.
    I imagine a server crashing.

    This "stick carrier" is not a practical way to move a fleet. It'd be easier to just coordinate jumps or use a standard carrier.
     
    Joined
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages
    745
    Reaction score
    158
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    And how long do you think that'll take to charge, outside of certain exploits that the devs have asked us to not share on the forums?



    I imagine a server crashing.

    This "stick carrier" is not a practical way to move a fleet. It'd be easier to just coordinate jumps or use a standard carrier.
    I tend to disagree. if you build a cap ship it has to use as many jump modules as that and more. By getting rid of most of the ship I don't have to account for all the added blocks.

    So in truth it should take less time than a cap ship to jump because it has the full power needed and less mass/blocks to jump.
    Its simple math. The only extra you may need is enough power caps to store the power being loaded beyond the 50,000 initially stored in he core. That could be the center of the stick ship. Which would provide more than enough.

    True on it may crash the server probably would.

    Went ahead and built a 100 meter stick ship as proof of concept.
    some tuning might be needed. Also since this uses such a modular system one could dock added power to it just to make the point. Modified actual one for large power storage.
     

    Attachments

    Last edited:
    Joined
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages
    67
    Reaction score
    17
    It's too bad the Bobby AI can't pilot a ship back to a dock, otherwise we could make "Quickships" that are essentially just a cargo hold that pilots itself back to the station and unloads its cargo.
     
    Joined
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages
    745
    Reaction score
    158
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    It's too bad the Bobby AI can't pilot a ship back to a dock, otherwise we could make "Quickships" that are essentially just a cargo hold that pilots itself back to the station and unloads its cargo.
    There is huge thread discussing that aspect.
    But there are work arounds to it. You can build a ship that catches the drones then auto docks them like I did this cargo system here.
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/simple-automated-cargo-drone-storage-point.22342/

    Another option is build a scoop on a ship line with rails. do it in a manner to move the drone in re-orientate it and put it on a path back to being stored. You could get some ideas though from old coin sorters.
     
    Joined
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages
    67
    Reaction score
    17
    I was thinking more along the lines of being 200km away from your station but having a full cargo bay, so you dump it into an automated ship that flies itself home and docks, while you continue on your way. I doubt there's any work around for that.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: GRHayes
    Joined
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages
    745
    Reaction score
    158
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    I was thinking more along the lines of being 200km away from your station but having a full cargo bay, so you dump it into an automated ship that flies itself home and docks, while you continue on your way. I doubt there's any work around for that.
    Not until they increase AI or release the ability to create real mods in the game and someone makes it.
    [DOUBLEPOST=1450820789,1450820564][/DOUBLEPOST]
    What about a link up like Knights of Sidonia?
    You can do that for the most part. With what is currently available. I doubt though you could make a complete connection on the last to the first though. It would still look like it. Not unless they implement what I asked for and that is the multiple simultaneous docking.

    The big thing about knights of Sidonia doesn't give them jump capability they would still need to get back to base. The idea of the stick ship was to create a way to jump a fleet without making a traditional capital ship just the minimum required.
     

    Keptick

    Building masochist
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages
    4,062
    Reaction score
    1,841
    • Councillor 2 Gold
    • Railman Gold
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    Imagine a three dimentional grid-carrier made of cubical drones. That would be awesome and probably quite effective, too.
    "hue hue hue look at dat uggly doomcube, let's blow it up"
    *Doomcube starts decomposing into smaller cubes*
    "WHAT THE F"

    I want one.
     
    Joined
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages
    745
    Reaction score
    158
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    The only issue about this so far is that without the automation and docking being improved it is going to be a long while before I build a full one of these. I haven't the patients or time to load even a small version let alone a full size one.

    I guess one could make the smaller one and build bigger drones with a larger power transfer system that would reduce the amount of ships needed and still give good fire power to weight ration.

    But I would love to see something on the order of a 16K cube launch if it wouldn't crash the server.