Balance vs Aesthetics

[FMK]

So the problem I have with the balancing for pretty much everything currently, is that it doesn't take into consideration the desire for aesthetics. Whether it be a 10^3 ship or a 1000^3 ship, in a same size fight, the one that stuffs more systems within their size is more than likely going to win. Which is rather annoying if you want to make both an aesthetically pleasing but effective at combat ship.

My idea is that, if there was an additional exponential curve that starts decreasing stat gain for all systems (weapons, shields, power gen, etc) even more when their combined amount is above Q% of the total ship size/mass (whichever makes more sense). Not only would it open room for aesthetics without basically guaranteeing the nice looking ship to lose, it would also heavily discourage "jack of all trades, master of all trades, I'm a box" mentality for ships, since it would mean you would have to sacrifice some stats in X to increase Y stats noticeably, rather than just throwing on more of Y without a care, or otherwise have to make the ship larger/heavier overall.

As well as giving a nice looking 10x5x20 ship a fighting chance against a 10^3 ship made entirely out of systems.

Though, this would require additional tweaks to all system stats so that they make sense with whatever the Q% is made to be.

 

[ToyotaSupra]

Sad reality is, you choose aesthetics or combat ability, not both. Look at an Aventador. Now look at a Challenger. Now pit the two together in battle...

However this is a videogame and reality shouldn't really apply here. But the main trouble is people having unlimited resources in game, if there was limited resources fights would be more fair and people would be more likely to decorate their capital to LOOK like a capital.

Spoiler

Just realised: Look at a Borg Cube, it's...well...a cube, and it absolutely shits on everything everybody else throws at them.

 

[mrsinister]

Sad reality is, you choose aesthetics or combat ability, not both. Look at an Aventador. Now look at a Challenger. Now pit the two together in battle...

However this is a videogame and reality shouldn't really apply here. But the main trouble is people having unlimited resources in game, if there was limited resources fights would be more fair and people would be more likely to decorate their capital to LOOK like a capital.

Spoiler

Just realised: Look at a Borg Cube, it's...well...a cube, and it absolutely shits on everything everybody else throws at them.

lol, I know what you mean.... Someone which I wont name, said I suck building..... but you tell me...

And it has a full interior (security check points, shops, engine room, 2 reactor cores, crew cabins, etc) and hanger bay with 2 snub nose fighters. And it has great fire power, shields, power etc, as you would expect something like this to have. Now, I haven't tested this against an equally massed Cube-of-Doom but, the point of the game as I see it, is build and be creative...NOT oh hey I MUST build a Cube-of-Doom in order to compete, where is the creativity in that? I also make re-creations of ships according to their stats in movies and tv shows, as well as games and concept art. I love it and it's a good challenge.

 

[Xskyth]

Sad reality is, you choose aesthetics or combat ability, not both. Look at an Aventador. Now look at a Challenger. Now pit the two together in battle...

However this is a videogame and reality shouldn't really apply here. But the main trouble is people having unlimited resources in game, if there was limited resources fights would be more fair and people would be more likely to decorate their capital to LOOK like a capital.

Spoiler

Just realised: Look at a Borg Cube, it's...well...a cube, and it absolutely shits on everything everybody else throws at them.

I agree that limiting the resources would help. But maybe, in addition, make some of the decorative blocks functional? Like the medical blocks? Or the computer, it could be used to edit the systems of your ship instead? Make it more interactive. Maybe make space unbreathable, so you need a ship interior for an atmosphere.

 

[ToyotaSupra]

lol, I know what you mean.... Someone which I wont name, said I suck building..... but you tell me...

And it has a full interior (security check points, shops, engine room, 2 reactor cores, crew cabins, etc) and hanger bay with 2 snub nose fighters. And it has great fire power, shields, power etc, as you would expect something like this to have. Now, I haven't tested this against an equally massed Cube-of-Doom but, the point of the game as I see it, is build and be creative...NOT oh hey I MUST build a Cube-of-Doom in order to compete, where is the creativity in that? I also make re-creations of ships according to their stats in movies and tv shows, as well as games and concept art. I love it and it's a good challenge.

Well, others would say the point of the game is to build the most efficient ship, that would happen to be Doomcubes. You should try joining a build server for building your ships and stations. However, I see a point: If the trend continues, there will only be ugly doomcube against doomcube battles with little effort or variety put into the ships, just 'spam 10x10x10 blocks' and send 'em in. Still, the game is young and barely in its teething stage, we're still testing for ideas and fundamental changes. Bottom line (TL;DR) even if we implement this nerf or that module, people will still find a way around it, there is just no true way [spoiler(Besides server rules forbidding doomcubing, which I personally think would solve a lot of issues. MC servers ban obsidian as it is ugly, why can't we ban cubes?)[/spoiler] to force design. Again however, I still agree with you that it is better when people put effort into designs, even Borg cubes look somewhat beautiful in their own right.

Your ship design is beautiful, by the way. I appreciate the clear effort you put into it.

 

[mrsinister]

Well, others would say the point of the game is to build the most efficient ship, that would happen to be Doomcubes. You should try joining a build server for building your ships and stations. However, I see a point: If the trend continues, there will only be ugly doomcube against doomcube battles with little effort or variety put into the ships, just 'spam 10x10x10 blocks' and send 'em in. Still, the game is young and barely in its teething stage, we're still testing for ideas and fundamental changes. Bottom line (TL;DR) even if we implement this nerf or that module, people will still find a way around it, there is just no true way [spoiler(Besides server rules forbidding doomcubing, which I personally think would solve a lot of issues. MC servers ban obsidian as it is ugly, why can't we ban cubes?)[/spoiler] to force design. Again however, I still agree with you that it is better when people put effort into designs, even Borg cubes look somewhat beautiful in their own right.

Your ship design is beautiful, by the way. I appreciate the clear effort you put into it.

I thank you for the compliment...and there is no need for me to find a server as I run my own I thank you anyway for the suggestion though.

 

[FMK]

Well, others would say the point of the game is to build the most efficient ship, that would happen to be Doomcubes. You should try joining a build server for building your ships and stations. However, I see a point: If the trend continues, there will only be ugly doomcube against doomcube battles with little effort or variety put into the ships, just 'spam 10x10x10 blocks' and send 'em in. Still, the game is young and barely in its teething stage, we're still testing for ideas and fundamental changes. Bottom line (TL;DR) even if we implement this nerf or that module, people will still find a way around it, there is just no true way [spoiler(Besides server rules forbidding doomcubing, which I personally think would solve a lot of issues. MC servers ban obsidian as it is ugly, why can't we ban cubes?)[/spoiler] to force design. Again however, I still agree with you that it is better when people put effort into designs, even Borg cubes look somewhat beautiful in their own right.

Your ship design is beautiful, by the way. I appreciate the clear effort you put into it.

This is basically the point I'm getting at. Currently, the goal for the "most efficient ship" is using 95-100% of a ship for systems, so if you move the goal closer, say ex: 20%, all of a sudden you get the same result as having a ship made out of 100% of systems while also having the room to do aesthetics if you so choose. True that you could still make ships out of 100% systems, but they'd no longer be the "most efficient" nor the "be all end all" in a same size fight.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

The problem with this game is that if you really want to destroy someone, you can. There is one bug, however, that would solve all issues, but make it impossible to fight ships. I'm putting this on every relevant thread in the hope that someone will see my problem, and that is this:

100% ion effect efficiency on a ship, with or without shields = invincible ship

This game has to be rebalanced in so many ways, I just think that the problem discussed in this thread is not the priority right now. Just saying.

 

[Unnamed25]

lol, I know what you mean.... Someone which I wont name, said I suck building..... but you tell me...

And it has a full interior (security check points, shops, engine room, 2 reactor cores, crew cabins, etc) and hanger bay with 2 snub nose fighters. And it has great fire power, shields, power etc, as you would expect something like this to have. Now, I haven't tested this against an equally massed Cube-of-Doom but, the point of the game as I see it, is build and be creative...NOT oh hey I MUST build a Cube-of-Doom in order to compete, where is the creativity in that? I also make re-creations of ships according to their stats in movies and tv shows, as well as games and concept art. I love it and it's a good challenge.

Who said that? I think they yet have to see a real ugly ship.

 

[mrsinister]

Who said that? I think they yet have to see a real ugly ship.

lol, I'm not going to divulge their names. But suffice to say, "they" apparently thought they were gods at something and to me, a ship is exactly what I posted...shapes, curves, angles, interiors, etc etc...an outer hull! I mean sure, you can go ahead and make something out of just system blocks that looks like a bunch of plus symbols all over each other, but to me that's not a real ship, and just means you lack any sense of creativity, which quite frankly is what this game is all about. And yes, I know, to each his own, but lets not forget that statement when you feel like flying a multiple plus symbol looking thing and start to hate on someone that actually puts effort into his creations.

 

[ToyotaSupra]

lol, I'm not going to divulge their names. But suffice to say, "they" apparently thought they were gods at something and to me, a ship is exactly what I posted...shapes, curves, angles, interiors, etc etc...an outer hull! I mean sure, you can go ahead and make something out of just system blocks that looks like a bunch of plus symbols all over each other, but to me that's not a real ship, and just means you lack any sense of creativity, which quite frankly is what this game is all about. And yes, I know, to each his own, but lets not forget that statement when you feel like flying a multiple plus symbol looking thing and start to hate on someone that actually puts effort into his creations.

You gotta love stuck-up arseholes, all high and haughty with nothing to back it up with. I've yet to hear of a person who is an arse but actually has something to justify it I.E. I build the best ship or I cured cancer or I landed on Mars etc.

 

[der_scheme]

I'll just build a regular battle cube and stuff hull on it until I'm under the cap. Nothing lost, but more armor.

 

[Zeno9141]

Actually, I don't think 1v1 battles should be held at all.
More people on both sides give more options in combat, tactical planning, and offensive/defensive strategies.

(And don't tell me there aren't enough players for that... Membercounts of some factions I have seen reach 20+)

EDIT:
After all, it is a multiplayer game. Teamwork is more powerful than any doomcube.
But then again. Multiple doomcubes are even worse.

 

[mrsinister]

You gotta love stuck-up arseholes, all high and haughty with nothing to back it up with. I've yet to hear of a person who is an arse but actually has something to justify it I.E. I build the best ship or I cured cancer or I landed on Mars etc.

yeah, needless to say, after I put my creation up they shut their mouth. and didn't even have a viable return answer or product to show me that they were in fact, better than me. LOL, gotta love it.