Regarding the faction base issue.

[Ithirahad]

Since we're moving into player and NPC interactions with ships, the next logical step is player, NPC, and ship interaction with the universe and with other factions. The first problem to tackle there, probably, is the current invulnerability of homebases. Many suggestions exist to deal with this, some involving using faction points for protection, some involving massive buffs to homebase stats, and even one recent one suggesting voluntary mutual vulnerability for faction wars. Personally, I find that the only satisfying and effective solution is a combination of new features that work together to create a more interesting, immersive, and - arguably - realistic system, while still mitigating most of the risk of griefing. (Unless you count spies as griefing...)

• First and foremost, there needs to be a way to have faction-chosen AI defense ships automatically spawn when a base is attacked. The easiest way to make this work would probably be just to require putting the blueprints into a "beacon" block, but this just seems inelegant immersion-wise. A more abstracted solution involving paying faction points for ship block value or mass is another possibility, but could lead to exploits involving enemy farming if not implemented carefully.
  
  
• Second, maps need to change. The current "find everything everywhere all of the time instantly" map? That's gotta go. You should have to, you know, go out there, explore, and scan for things, including enemy bases, asteroid belts, planets, wormhole routes, warpgate routes... (In fact, wormholes and warpgates shouldn't show their routes until you have either come within visible range of both ends or scanned both ends within scanning range.) A feature where players could share the locations of discoveries with others via a "Map" metaitem for a definable map area would be nice, as would an option to auto-share discoveries with your faction. Additionally, it'd even be possible to have levels of clearance for information within your faction, so that top-secret facilities aren't known to recruits and random pilots who don't need to know they exist.
  
  This system also would help set the stage for giving more added celestial bodies and phenomena meaning and play value, seeing as it wouldn't be possible to instantly find every special feature on the map.
  
  
• Third, all stations need a base shield capacity, and a very large buff to the effectiveness of shield caps and generator blocks when placed on stations. Otherwise, half the time all those NPC/AI reinforcements won't mean anything because the enemy came in a ship big enough to squish your base like a bug and leave with all the loot.
  If implemented properly, this would also make boarding the preferred method of capturing stations.
  
  
• Faction point-based protection could become a thing, but I dunno how to balance this. And one way or another, there would need to be a better (but still grief-proof) way to drain enemy faction points for this to work...
  
  
• If planets finally get a revamp and become more useful and better-looking, similar accommodations can be made regarding them, shielding, and protection. Also, shield pools can become global, rather than per-segments, if a segment-based planet system remains.

Once all of these are implemented, we can safely and simply remove the permanent homebase invulnerability without causing everyone to constantly get midnight-raided by trolls and assholes. People will be able to have secret, separate faction banks, materials caches, production facilities, and more, and the loss of a homebase would become merely a decimating loss rather than the complete doom of a faction. As long as they don't put all their eggs in one basket, at least.

 

[Reilly Reese]

I've always hated the fact that all you need to find a factions homebase is to find their tab in the factions list.

Also homebase should be Head Quarters imo

 

[StormWing0]

I agree on the maps thing. An easy way to clear up some of the clutter is to make the stations for the AI and derelict spawn sort of like the ships for them do currently but the spawning system would check how many stations are the max limit per sector and also how many are in a given radius around the target sector. So the AI faction stations wouldn't be there at first. Also if the devs wanted to keep the current way for spawning stations when the world is generated they could spawn a far lower number of them at a time and save the rest for this setup. It'd be handy for simulating the AI Factions going out and building something. The more of their stations that spawn in an area the more likely a station of theirs is to spawn in said area until the max number of stations is reached in a sector, at that point the spawning system would check open sectors between the stations and do the same thing all over again.


In any event nice idea.

 

[Ithirahad]

I've always hated the fact that all you need to find a factions homebase is to find their tab in the factions list.

Also homebase should be Head Quarters imo

Given the way the map and the home-base system are currently set up, I'd rather keep the homebase locations in the diplomacy menu... For now the ability to locate each other's bases isn't a bad thing by any means; it's not like anyone can do serious damage, or that you can even hide a base: Everyone's station and territory is shown, you just have to search through the map until you find the right spot. I think we'd be better off having all the other suggested changes put in at the same time as or immediately after taking faction locations off that list.

 

[Sha3es]

We do for certain need a new or improved map system, and faction system that does not openly list controlled territory and home base information. Maybe a good way to find out who exactly controls a sector is to base this information off of encounters with other stations/ ships that the player would have to be within a certain range to find out.
Until that happens, I would think that the star map would show all of the stars at least, but not a lot more than that.
In order to find out more information about a system you might have to rely on the navigational data of another faction or trader?

 

[Lecic]

First and foremost, there needs to be a way to have faction-chosen AI defense ships automatically spawn when a base is attacked. The easiest way to make this work would probably be just to require putting the blueprints into a "beacon" block, but this just seems inelegant immersion-wise. A more abstracted solution involving paying faction points for ship block value or mass is another possibility, but could lead to exploits involving enemy farming if not implemented carefully.

I'd prefer if AI fleets from other stations would jump in to defend instead. Hell, they could even use warpgates to get to defensive locations faster.

 

[Ithirahad]

I'd prefer if AI fleets from other stations would jump in to defend instead. Hell, they could even use warpgates to get to defensive locations faster.

That means having AI ships load the sector they're in, or at least somehow simulate an abstract version of their sector along with the jumpgate in it... Weird, albeit possible, and it just strikes me as overcomplicated.

 

[Lecic]

That means having AI ships load the sector they're in, or at least somehow simulate an abstract version of their sector along with the jumpgate in it... Weird, albeit possible, and it just strikes me as overcomplicated.

Nah, you'd basically have a list of ships designated "defenders," who would be removed from their original sector and quickly moved to any station that needs backup and is part of the warp gate network. We know the game already saves warp gate paths, so that part shouldn't be too hard.

It also adds a bit of complex tactics. You could split and slow down enemy reinforcement limes, or trick the enemy with a ruse.

We'd probably need a lot of priority and importance options. HB gets basically everything. Major bases take a lot of reinforcements. Normal bases might get spare guards that aren't used at the other stations. Tiny, isolated mining outpost? Maybe a few fighters and a corvette.

I'd really love if we could also allow players to command that fleet instead of letting AI handle it.
[DOUBLEPOST=1446781142,1446780998][/DOUBLEPOST]Mobile SMD isn't letting me edit. Pretend that says "enemy reinforcement lines."

 

[Ithirahad]

enemy reinforcement limes

Reinforcement limes... Plenty of vitamin C in those things to help reinforce your immune system against enemy viruses.

Bad jokes aside, I do understand that most players seem to want all active ships to have actually existed initially, and this would work fine too. It's just that I don't like the idea that enemies poking around can just kill a ton of your hard-earned ships, possibly one by one, and eventually leave you defenseless... But then again, with passive resource generation this may not be such a huge issue.

 

[Asvarduil]

Since we're moving into player and NPC interactions with ships, the next logical step is player, NPC, and ship interaction with the universe and with other factions. The first problem to tackle there, probably, is the current invulnerability of homebases. Many suggestions exist to deal with this, some involving using faction points for protection, some involving massive buffs to homebase stats, and even one recent one suggesting voluntary mutual vulnerability for faction wars. Personally, I find that the only satisfying and effective solution is a combination of new features that work together to create a more interesting, immersive, and - arguably - realistic system, while still mitigating most of the risk of griefing. (Unless you count spies as griefing...)

• First and foremost, there needs to be a way to have faction-chosen AI defense ships automatically spawn when a base is attacked. The easiest way to make this work would probably be just to require putting the blueprints into a "beacon" block, but this just seems inelegant immersion-wise. A more abstracted solution involving paying faction points for ship block value or mass is another possibility, but could lead to exploits involving enemy farming if not implemented carefully.
  
  
• Second, maps need to change. The current "find everything everywhere all of the time instantly" map? That's gotta go. You should have to, you know, go out there, explore, and scan for things, including enemy bases, asteroid belts, planets, wormhole routes, warpgate routes... (In fact, wormholes and warpgates shouldn't show their routes until you have either come within visible range of both ends or scanned both ends within scanning range.) A feature where players could share the locations of discoveries with others via a "Map" metaitem for a definable map area would be nice, as would an option to auto-share discoveries with your faction. Additionally, it'd even be possible to have levels of clearance for information within your faction, so that top-secret facilities aren't known to recruits and random pilots who don't need to know they exist.
  
  This system also would help set the stage for giving more added celestial bodies and phenomena meaning and play value, seeing as it wouldn't be possible to instantly find every special feature on the map.
  
  
• Third, all stations need a base shield capacity, and a very large buff to the effectiveness of shield caps and generator blocks when placed on stations. Otherwise, half the time all those NPC/AI reinforcements won't mean anything because the enemy came in a ship big enough to squish your base like a bug and leave with all the loot.
  If implemented properly, this would also make boarding the preferred method of capturing stations.
  
  
• Faction point-based protection could become a thing, but I dunno how to balance this. And one way or another, there would need to be a better (but still grief-proof) way to drain enemy faction points for this to work...
  
  
• If planets finally get a revamp and become more useful and better-looking, similar accommodations can be made regarding them, shielding, and protection. Also, shield pools can become global, rather than per-segments, if a segment-based planet system remains.

Once all of these are implemented, we can safely and simply remove the permanent homebase invulnerability without causing everyone to constantly get midnight-raided by trolls and assholes. People will be able to have secret, separate faction banks, materials caches, production facilities, and more, and the loss of a homebase would become merely a decimating loss rather than the complete doom of a faction. As long as they don't put all their eggs in one basket, at least.

Regarding point #2, I think that the Sensor Computer/Antenna module could use some love. Instead of just de-cloaking/de-jamming ships, it would be a very good idea for a Sensor system to 'scan' a number of sectors based on the ability of the system, centered on your current sector of course, and reveal information by doing that. This way, you create a brand new play style: Scout Ships.

The only problem, is conveying information between entities. I don't think that because Joe's Scout Ship is out in Sector 100 x 131 x 33, that his enemy Billy should get his information; also, it adds a layer to the economy where selling information is a critical part of everything.

Given that exploration is a real draw of this game - I mean, universes are only randomly-generated, after all - I think that an 'exploration' update like this is critical to make the game reach its potential.

 

[Ithirahad]

I tried to imply that each player gets his own version of the map that only shows their discoveries and information they have obtained via sharing. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[alterintel]

I'd prefer if AI fleets from other stations would jump in to defend instead. Hell, they could even use warpgates to get to defensive locations faster.

I agree with Lecic on this. I really don't like the idea of support ships just appearing out of thin air/space with no resources expended on them. Even a ship yard takes time and blocks to build a ship. Maybe you build the ships and "send them on patrol" which actually means they magically disappear for now but then reappear when you need them.

My point is, the player should spend time building the ships that are going to protect his base. Also it would make more sense in salvaging the ships after the battle if they were actually built with real blocks.

 

[Ithirahad]

I agree with Lecic on this. I really don't like the idea of support ships just appearing out of thin air/space with no resources expended on them. Even a ship yard takes time and blocks to build a ship. Maybe you build the ships and "send them on patrol" which actually means they magically disappear for now but then reappear when you need them.

My point is, the player should spend time building the ships that are going to protect his base. Also it would make more sense in salvaging the ships after the battle if they were actually built with real blocks.

I said specifically that either players would manually fill blueprints (or shipyards) for a station to use for defense, or that possibly it could spend faction points - which are a resource. If the system used faction points, theoretically an invading faction could completely drain its enemy's faction points summoning defense ships, if they had enough ships to counter them all, and then go in and raid and pillage at will 'till there's nothing left. This simulates the realistic idea of an enemy slowly wearing down your resources until you've nothing to fight or defend with and you're at the mercy of raiders and bandits. If balanced properly, of course, this would be a rare situation in a decently-run, decently-defended faction even if all players are offline for a while.

 

[MacThule]

• Second, maps need to change. The current "find everything everywhere all of the time instantly" map? That's gotta go. You should have to, you know, go out there, explore, and scan for things, including enemy bases, asteroid belts, planets, wormhole routes, warpgate routes... (In fact, wormholes and warpgates shouldn't show their routes until you have either come within visible range of both ends or scanned both ends within scanning range.) A feature where players could share the locations of discoveries with others via a "Map" metaitem for a definable map area would be nice, as would an option to auto-share discoveries with your faction. Additionally, it'd even be possible to have levels of clearance for information within your faction, so that top-secret facilities aren't known to recruits and random pilots who don't need to know they exist.

+1
This is a big issue.
Each player needs to have his/her own map spreadsheet in the database. I know a lot is being done currently to reduce database expansion, but this is one area that is worth allowing increased database size for. Think of the other reductions as helping to make way for expansions such as individual maps that would greatly improve gameplay.

 

[Ithirahad]

I could even see someone writing a database-reading wrapper/wrapper addon and giving people achievements for discovering a given number of things.

Congratulations! You discovered 100 Quad Nests!
...Wait, do you seriously go around looking for those things? Ew.

Credits Reward: 1,000,000

 

[MacThule]

Third, all stations need a base shield capacity, and a very large buff to the effectiveness of shield caps and generator blocks when placed on stations. Otherwise, half the time all those NPC/AI reinforcements won't mean anything because the enemy came in a ship big enough to squish your base like a bug and leave with all the loot.
If implemented properly, this would also make boarding the preferred method of capturing stations.

Several blocks can already only be placed on stations/planets. Just add another - Defense Mainframe or something like - that multiplies shields, armor HP, weapon damage and range. Perhaps the multipliers could rise & fall based on FP or something else? Perhaps not...

And I like the idea of allowing POSs to spawn ships, but I think even better would be allow stations (maybe by means of aforementioned Defense Mainframe) to use their shipyards as weapons. Station owners could tag a number of Designs as approved for defense, and whenever the station goes weapons active the shipyard also begins producing approved designs (from resources available in linked storage) and setting their Bobby AI blocks to active.

A base buff works too, but I think this could be a 2 birds 1 stone thing to allow stations to hold their own.
[DOUBLEPOST=1446832639,1446832538][/DOUBLEPOST]

I could even see someone writing a database-reading wrapper/wrapper addon and giving people achievements for discovering a given number of things.

Congratulations! You discovered 100 Quad Nests!
...Wait, do you seriously go around looking for those things? Ew.

Credits Reward: 1,000,000

There could even be features allowing you to share or sell map info to other individuals.

 

[Ithirahad]

There could even be features allowing you to share or sell map info to other individuals.

A feature where players could share the locations of discoveries with others via a "Map" metaitem for a definable map area would be nice, as would an option to auto-share discoveries with your faction.

Ideally, with the trade system that is planned, a player could sell a Map to another player, containing what he'd discovered in a part of a system, an entire system, or even multiple systems.

 

[MacThule]

A defense mainframe could even be a computer-slave situation giving a better multiplier to station/planet defense systems based on ratio of mainframe blocks to defense system blocks if people don't think an FP-based scaling would work.

Using the shipyard as a weapon may also solve a lot of issues compared to spawning ships - which ships? what determines their size? how many can be spawned if an enemy invests your base over a period of hours? - all of this is immediately answered by existing dynamics if bases can produce AI-active ships at their shipyards with existing stored resources during combat conditions. Perhaps owners could even adjust a setting of whether the station should produce as many drone ships as possible as quickly as possible, or pace itself with an adjustable blocks-per-minute production cap or something.

 

[Sha3es]

Perhaps a better solution would be to have the trading guild, as a faction if it still will be one, send out ships from time to time to collect navigational data from systems that are un inhabited by the traders guild. Then the guild will have the opportunity to sell the navigational data to you for a price.

Additionally, the player can and will be able to sell information on systems or sectors according to how much of an area that the player has mapped.

 

[Ithirahad]

Perhaps a better solution would be to have the trading guild, as a faction if it still will be one, send out ships from time to time to collect navigational data from systems that are un inhabited by the traders guild. Then the guild will have the opportunity to sell the navigational data to you for a price.

Additionally, the player can and will be able to sell information on systems or sectors according to how much of an area that the player has mapped.

Being able to buy local navigational data from Trading Guild NPCs would be a nice touch. Great idea... What do you mean by "better solution" though? This just sounds like something to implement alongside the systems I suggested.