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I'd like to know if you would call breathing an aspect of RP, in other words, can we expect breathing to pop up on the road map thingy and later in the game?
Would you call breathing an aspect of RP?
- Thread starter HolyCookie
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Get every block that contributes to sealing a ships atmosphere into a list (you only need to do that once at boot/reboot), and if any block of the ship gets destroyed check if it was in that list. If it was, you start to lose atmosphere. I think it won't be too straining for the hardware.
therimmer96
The Cake Network Staff Senior button unpusher
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I hope he atleast tries a few aproaches like he did planets. it would be a real shame if we didn't have atmosphere of some kind.
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I have one suggestion that may help.
The issue in detecting a sealed space isn't about the internal volume, you only need to know if the inside faces of the blocks surrounding the space you want to atmosphere are intact. this means you don't need it to detect anything but the one face of the blocks you deem the inside of the room. this also may solve another issue such as rendering parts of a ship you don't and will never ever see. this alone makes it worth at least an attempt, as it will mean less stress on systems rendering memory. that having been said, I do have a suggestion based on something from Minecraft.
there is a mod for Minecraft, which will render where light is present, it uses the check system for the creature spawning to detect this. but what the mod does is make this visible by highlighting the ground area and showing in a color grid where the safely lit areas are, and mobs will not spawn there. It makes this visible to the player, and displays this as a colored grid on the floor, this grid colored according to the presence of light. this is what could solve the issue of internal and external space for starmade.
if this mod can detect the light based upon the mechanic of spawning a creature. then its reasonable that the same could work in starmade to detect and internal face of a structure is sealed and sound.
The issue in detecting a sealed space isn't about the internal volume, you only need to know if the inside faces of the blocks surrounding the space you want to atmosphere are intact. this means you don't need it to detect anything but the one face of the blocks you deem the inside of the room. this also may solve another issue such as rendering parts of a ship you don't and will never ever see. this alone makes it worth at least an attempt, as it will mean less stress on systems rendering memory. that having been said, I do have a suggestion based on something from Minecraft.
there is a mod for Minecraft, which will render where light is present, it uses the check system for the creature spawning to detect this. but what the mod does is make this visible by highlighting the ground area and showing in a color grid where the safely lit areas are, and mobs will not spawn there. It makes this visible to the player, and displays this as a colored grid on the floor, this grid colored according to the presence of light. this is what could solve the issue of internal and external space for starmade.
if this mod can detect the light based upon the mechanic of spawning a creature. then its reasonable that the same could work in starmade to detect and internal face of a structure is sealed and sound.
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@ RoyalWolfe Minecraft allows mob spawning based upon light levels, as in, it already has that mechanic built in and the mod you're referring to only highlights it. The mod doesn't detect the light levels. Starmade does not have an "internal facing check" mechanic already to see if inside surfaces are sealed. That mod won't do any good with this. Bench said what he said because they'd have to add a new mechanic into the game to do this, or volume checking. Either way, it's adding more drain to the system in the form of checks.
That said, I'd still like to have atmosphere in my ships and stations.
That said, I'd still like to have atmosphere in my ships and stations.
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What will including breathing actually add to Starmade in terms of gameplay?
If I'm on a ship going into a situation which risks hull-breach I'm going to already have my helmet on, so it's very unlikely to allow an enemy player to deliver a quick kill or enhance the personal risk during dangerous manoeuvres. It could be used as a resource to keep the Player alive (similar to food in Minecraft) but how do you "produce" it? If your life-support block generates an infinite supply of oxygen, then it's not really very limiting as a resource. Do you only need one life-support block per ship, or do you need one for every 9x9x9 cubic area of empty space? In which case, the only gameplay effect I can see adding life-support blocks would have is making ship design slightly more awkward (especially on small fighter-sized ships where space is already a premium).
I'm all in favour of adding elements to the game which increase immersion and I think having breathable atmosphere on a ship/station would improve this a lot. But, if the only thing it will add is immersion, is it worth working out all new mechanics for? Don't get me wrong, I'm not being critical, this post is a serious question to see what other reasons people have for adding in a feature like this.
If I'm on a ship going into a situation which risks hull-breach I'm going to already have my helmet on, so it's very unlikely to allow an enemy player to deliver a quick kill or enhance the personal risk during dangerous manoeuvres. It could be used as a resource to keep the Player alive (similar to food in Minecraft) but how do you "produce" it? If your life-support block generates an infinite supply of oxygen, then it's not really very limiting as a resource. Do you only need one life-support block per ship, or do you need one for every 9x9x9 cubic area of empty space? In which case, the only gameplay effect I can see adding life-support blocks would have is making ship design slightly more awkward (especially on small fighter-sized ships where space is already a premium).
I'm all in favour of adding elements to the game which increase immersion and I think having breathable atmosphere on a ship/station would improve this a lot. But, if the only thing it will add is immersion, is it worth working out all new mechanics for? Don't get me wrong, I'm not being critical, this post is a serious question to see what other reasons people have for adding in a feature like this.
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I totally understand why the mod wont work, duh its for a different game, and all, but the core concept is still plausible because the nature of what is happening is its detecting states of voxels. that is the same regardless of what ever the heak you want to do, it's a Voxel game they all work on the same basic principals of rendering.
also the idea of this can not only work on detecting interior vs exterior. if the same technique is used to only render the visible parts of things it will kill a lot of lag thus increasing latency of some ships or objects in the game. think about it like an intelligent programmer please.
also the idea of this can not only work on detecting interior vs exterior. if the same technique is used to only render the visible parts of things it will kill a lot of lag thus increasing latency of some ships or objects in the game. think about it like an intelligent programmer please.
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After considering the posts about the mechanics of atmosphere generation, how about using the existing explosions algorithm?
Your life-support block starts producing atmosphere in the shape of an expanding bubble which can expand to a maximum of, say, 9 blocks in diameter (like a slow, spherical explosion). If the surface of the bubble touches a block during it's expansion, then it stops expanding in that direction (just like an explosion being obstructed by armour). However, if the bubble is ever able to reach it's max diameter of 9 blocks in any direction, then the bubble "bursts" and the atmosphere is lost or otherwise rendered un-breathable. So, in order to maintain atmosphere inside a structure, the life-support block has to be contained on all sides by blocks which are close enough to prevent it from expanding to it's max diameter. As soon as a containing block is removed (e.g. shot away) the bubble expands through the gap like a released explosion and your atmosphere is gone in that part of your structure.
I'd say this mechanic would provide Players with another good reason to build ships with emergency bulkheads
Your life-support block starts producing atmosphere in the shape of an expanding bubble which can expand to a maximum of, say, 9 blocks in diameter (like a slow, spherical explosion). If the surface of the bubble touches a block during it's expansion, then it stops expanding in that direction (just like an explosion being obstructed by armour). However, if the bubble is ever able to reach it's max diameter of 9 blocks in any direction, then the bubble "bursts" and the atmosphere is lost or otherwise rendered un-breathable. So, in order to maintain atmosphere inside a structure, the life-support block has to be contained on all sides by blocks which are close enough to prevent it from expanding to it's max diameter. As soon as a containing block is removed (e.g. shot away) the bubble expands through the gap like a released explosion and your atmosphere is gone in that part of your structure.
I'd say this mechanic would provide Players with another good reason to build ships with emergency bulkheads
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Now you got me thinking... space whales... explosion system mites... what next? SCNR
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i didn't think about this earlier but doesn't the explosions checks also detect the state of player vs the armor blocking to tell whether they are killed or not? if so this mite also be a good way to run checks of being safe to take off the helmet. just food for thought.
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Why not just lore it up and use a really simple mechanic for the actual air (at least it might be simple. I don't know. If you are attached to a ship, station, or planet you have air. If you aren't then you don't have air. There might be a few issue with it. I don't know nothing about such things. I can think that what is considered attached might be a issue. The ship or station part might not be a issue. The core and everything that is attached to it is the station or ship. Anything not attached to a core is not a ship or station. Then there is the attach algorithm (fancy words I actually don't know the meaning of for the win) What is considered attached. Is it within the radius of influence created by the ship, station, or planet; or is it being directly connected to the aforementioned.
Does it really need added graphics or physics might be another question worth thinking over.
Don't think of it as impossible or not within the scope of the current project. That is a defeatist attitude. Think of it from different angles and perspectives. Maybe what they aren't asking for is a atmosphere mechanic. Maybe all they want is a way to suffocate and die. I don't know, maybe think it over a little in your free time. I am sure you can come up with something.
Lore:
The rest of the equation might be using lore to explain why it works like it does. Something sci-fi, with just enough detail to let the imagination fly. Yet not to much for fans to find holes in it ask you "how does this even work?" all the time.
Advanced systems used by a space faring race are abundant. Nano Tech that recycles the air in your lungs and blood to keep you going. Not large enough to have there own power source, but easily powered by any nearby source.
Whatever, I am sure you can come up with a lot better then all this. The main message is don't give up to easily (not that I am saying you have. Don't really know. Might be you have given this matter years of thought and finally found it not feasible.)
Thanks for reading.
Does it really need added graphics or physics might be another question worth thinking over.
Don't think of it as impossible or not within the scope of the current project. That is a defeatist attitude. Think of it from different angles and perspectives. Maybe what they aren't asking for is a atmosphere mechanic. Maybe all they want is a way to suffocate and die. I don't know, maybe think it over a little in your free time. I am sure you can come up with something.
Lore:
The rest of the equation might be using lore to explain why it works like it does. Something sci-fi, with just enough detail to let the imagination fly. Yet not to much for fans to find holes in it ask you "how does this even work?" all the time.
Advanced systems used by a space faring race are abundant. Nano Tech that recycles the air in your lungs and blood to keep you going. Not large enough to have there own power source, but easily powered by any nearby source.
Whatever, I am sure you can come up with a lot better then all this. The main message is don't give up to easily (not that I am saying you have. Don't really know. Might be you have given this matter years of thought and finally found it not feasible.)
Thanks for reading.
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That's not a bad idea, certainly more simple than mine. It could work using the existing gravity block mechanic. Click the Life-support block and you're "in" the atmosphere, click it again and you're out. Move too far away from the structure and you "fall" out of the atmosphere in the same way you fall out of gravity. The block gets destroyed and everyone without a helmet starts choking.
Heck, why not even have 1 block which does both gravity and life support? Save on block IDs...
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Add invisible air block that doesn't block a player from being able to interact with things, if any air block is hit by weapons it will deactivate all air blocks that are touching making them un viable to support life. If a door is opened check to see if air blocks exist on both sides, if not or if they are deactivated on one side turn all air blocks off.
Is it possible to add blocks that will not prevent a player from using buttons while inside of them?
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I think this will be the problem with that idea frankly. Note how plex doors for instance, when opened, still block the click on a button through an opened door. This is because, although invisible, the blocks are still there programming wise. It highly depends on the game mechanics if this behavior can be altered easily for a new introduced 'air' block type because I presume this is how the game checks if a block is there or not...
Greets,
Jan
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Yes, but if we have it as a check for A) A life-support system on the ship AND B) a seal, not a block, for the room to be safe, we wouldn't have the issue of oxygen blocks. Just have the setup check for a seal every half second or so and if the room is sealed, EG no room exposed to space, or the area "outside" the ship entity, we wouldn't have the issue of block interference. If the room is sealed at the check, it's habitable and you don't take damage.