Torpedo Bombers

[kiraen]

I'll give you two Rwandan pirates with AK's in a fishing dingy, and I'll take a Nimitz class aircraft carrier. Now show me how a small fighter is supposed to realistically take down a titan on their own.

Not an accurate analogy and you are missing the point.
It would be 2000 pirates in speedboats armed with rocket launchers.

A lot of dead pirates, but also a sinking carrier.

 

[Edymnion]

Not an accurate analogy and you are missing the point.
It would be 2000 pirates in speedboats armed with rocket launchers.

A lot of dead pirates, but also a sinking carrier.

No see, that would be accurate. That would be a large amount of small fighters using reasonable firepower for their size taking down a titan, and I'm 100% on board with that. Death by a thousand cuts.

But thats very different from somebody that could literally build a titan buster kamikaze ship with their starting credits 3 minutes after joining a server.

 

[Rixit]

No see, that would be accurate. That would be a large amount of small fighters using reasonable firepower for their size taking down a titan, and I'm 100% on board with that. Death by a thousand cuts.

But thats very different from somebody that could literally build a titan buster kamikaze ship with their starting credits 3 minutes after joining a server.

You mean building a DESTROYER????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer

 

[Spartan-228]

No see, that would be accurate. That would be a large amount of small fighters using reasonable firepower for their size taking down a titan, and I'm 100% on board with that. Death by a thousand cuts.

But thats very different from somebody that could literally build a titan buster kamikaze ship with their starting credits 3 minutes after joining a server.

Oh so I guess these things never existed, Douglas SBD Dauntless, Grumman TBF Avenger, and the number of modern plains that can carry the ordnance to sink a carrier or battleship.

 

[Eosian]

No see, that would be accurate. That would be a large amount of small fighters using reasonable firepower for their size taking down a titan, and I'm 100% on board with that. Death by a thousand cuts.

But thats very different from somebody that could literally build a titan buster kamikaze ship with their starting credits 3 minutes after joining a server.

I don't think you guys understand something very, very important.

These warheads are neither nukes, nor are they AKs. The warheads have a blast radius of 25 blocks. They can get no further, and advanced armor will drop that down to 4-5 blocks. At the same time, they deal damage somewhere in the general vicinity of "MOAB" to unarmored, internal components. To put it into perspective, we've taking the machineguns off of your divebomber and put on, well, ACTUAL BOMBS.

In addition, a vital mechanic of current warheads is that shields do not stop them. At all. Warheads IGNORE shields.

While a single bomber on it's own cannot possibly kill a Titan, it can make one bleed.

Like I stated earlier, this does nothing but give fighters ACTUAL WEAPONS that can scratch a titan. It's not a nuke, and it won't kill a titan unless you were a dumbass when you built it. What it WILL do is hurt the titan enough that he will think twice about ignoring the normally impotent fighters swarming him.

 

[kiraen]

If your target has thick armor say 6 meters thick even a torpedo with ten warheads will have a hared time against that.
So its not an ultimate weapon that wins every time, but it should give you small craft pilots something to fight back with.

But thats very different from somebody that could literally build a titan buster kamikaze ship with their starting credits 3 minutes after joining a server.

Edy, nobody has said that should be the case.

 

[Edymnion]

Edy, nobody has said that should be the case.

But it is EXACTLY what the OP says they're doing.

They cranked up the base damage of the warheads. That you can buy right away.

I have no problems with a ship loaded with warheads being used for bombers. What I have a problem with is (if I were on the server) the idea that they cranked the damage up to crazy high proportions, and I don't see anything that suggests that they changed the base cost to buy or make the things up exponentially to compensate.

So you are literally handing a nuke that fits in a briefcase to whoever walks into the server.

 

[Rixit]

So you are literally handing a nuke that fits in a briefcase to whoever walks into the server.

Maybe you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket than?

Ask yourself why do navys never just make one giant ship?

Why do they make fast ships with huge payloads (destroyers)?
Why are large ships (carriers) just used as long distance operation platforms?

How come helicopters get shot down by handheld rocket launchers so much?
How come anti-tank is typically consider soldiers on foot with specialized weapons?

Every real battle scenario I can see smaller... means bigger payload.

It really comes down to one simple fact.
Soldier life is cheaper than tank
Destroyer is cheaper than carrier
Rocket launcher cheaper than helicopter.

It seems like using resources to their best ability is like a strategy or something?

 

[Spartan-228]

But it is EXACTLY what the OP says they're doing.

They cranked up the base damage of the warheads. That you can buy right away.

I have no problems with a ship loaded with warheads being used for bombers. What I have a problem with is (if I were on the server) the idea that they cranked the damage up to crazy high proportions, and I don't see anything that suggests that they changed the base cost to buy or make the things up exponentially to compensate.

So you are literally handing a nuke that fits in a briefcase to whoever walks into the server.

Okay so now I understand. I can see your point we have not done it yet, but we plan to do it the next time we bring the server down to do some work. The only way you will be able to get warheads is by making them in a factory.

Also one warhead wont do much to advanced armor. You need like ten of them, twenty or thirty is even better.

 

[kiraen]

But it is EXACTLY what the OP says they're doing.

Take a deep breath. Calm down. Relax.

Now go back and actually read the post. Or just the relevant section I quoted.

 

[Edymnion]

Take a deep breath. Calm down. Relax.

Now go back and actually read the post. Or just the relevant section I quoted.

I did.

Nobody builds ships with a half dozen layers of advanced armor. Thats just absurd. Its like saying a weapon isn't really that dangerous because you can just hide behind a planet.

 

[Rixit]

I did.

Nobody builds ships with a half dozen layers of advanced armor. Thats just absurd. Its like saying a weapon isn't really that dangerous because you can just hide behind a planet.

Yes it is absurd to actually have to build something that isn't just pretty but actually has a purpose.

Jump drives are care bear enough to run from fights.

 

[Spartan-228]

I did.

Nobody builds ships with a half dozen layers of advanced armor. Thats just absurd. Its like saying a weapon isn't really that dangerous because you can just hide behind a planet.

I beg to differ, I have been building ships with that much armor for two years now. Not all my ships mined you, but those that could be called titans do. I made one for a friend that had over 15 meters of armor if you include the internal bulkheads.

 

[Eosian]

I did.

Nobody builds ships with a half dozen layers of advanced armor. Thats just absurd. Its like saying a weapon isn't really that dangerous because you can just hide behind a planet.

We do. On this server.

On this server, you can only obtain shields by building or salvaging them from old relics. My battlecruisers? They have 4-5 layers of advanced armor on them. My dreadnoughts? 5-6 layer outer skin, plus an addition 4-5 of bulkhead, built in a honeycomb shape to maximize protection.
EDIT: Correction. 20 layers. 6 outer, 14 layers of inner bulkhead.

Really, the problem is that the average ship on the average server simply isn't built to the standard of the ships in ours. With 4-5 layers of heavy armor being standard, we need weapons that can do the damage needed to hurt big ships. Hense the warheads.

 

[Edymnion]

We do. On this server.

On this server, you can only obtain shields by building or salvaging them from old relics.

Well, I don't think its a very good comparison when the reason listed as to why is literally "We don't have shields".

 

[Eosian]

Well, I don't think its a very good comparison when the reason listed as to why is literally "We don't have shields".

I didn't say that we didn't have shields, simply that you cannot buy them. So, Try reading that again.

Furthermore, I quote my earlier post:

Warheads IGNORE shields.

So, the cusp of our argument is that warheads provide a difficult to use, highly powerful weapon that allows small ships to successfully damage larger ones. This has not changed since back when we didn't have rails, or advanced armor, or anything other than AMCs, heatseakers, and guided missiles. The only difference is that we have since re-balanced these blocks to bring them up to par with other weapon systems, and allow them to do their job once again.

Honestly, if you are so scared of a weapon that, while it bypasses armor, has to touch you, than you probably shouldn't be attempting to build titans in the first place. Or, maybe you should build titans that can actually take damage, instead of look pretty.
[DOUBLEPOST=1441402559,1441401215][/DOUBLEPOST]

Meet the TNS Peace. She is an 800 meter long dreadnought designed for pure, 100% combat. She has 20 meters of advanced armor in a honeycomb shape.

That gash? That was from another dreadnought, before I slaughtered it. That gash is the length of a destroyer, and failed to penetrate even to the first bulkhead.

This is the level of construction that you need to kill on our server.

 

[MeRobo]

Oh so I guess these things never existed, Douglas SBD Dauntless, Grumman TBF Avenger

Not to mention that crucial torpedo run by some Farey Swordfishs against the Bismarck resulting in a jammed rudder and eventually a sunk Bismarck.

 

[StormWing0]

O_O Oh man nothing like needing to fire a server killing load of missiles all at once to dent the thing. XD
[DOUBLEPOST=1441413353,1441410554][/DOUBLEPOST]I say setting this argument with a duel in game to see how this would play out. Loser Ends the issue right there and moves on. XD


We need some proof that warheads can be as deadly as these guys are claiming on both sides. Personally giving the smaller ships a weapon they can use against larger ships isn't an issue in my opinion and so far warheads are the only ones I can think of off hand that would be balanced outside of making a new weapon(s) that is more powerful the less mass you have.

 

[Spartan-228]

This is what ten warheads can do to about ten meters of advanced armor.

 

[Crashmaster]

"Just make it bigger," I foresee titans on your server that fire moon-sized torpedoes which can one-shot other titans. If you can make a titan you can afford a few warheads.

The bomber-sized torpedoes, even with the amped-up warheads seem to be easily countered by good old spaced armor. Of course, now I'm thinking of a two-stage torpedo that uses a push beam to launch a secondary payload from the drive section 0.5 second after impact, hopefully into the hole...gtg.