Factions and Metagaming

[Deleted member 301635]

Until recently, there was only one type of damage, and only one or two types of tank. Now, with the latest update, many new forms of tanking and damage have been added, some of which are weaker or stronger against certain combinations. That means that each faction will probably decide on a damage type and tank type. Which means that some factions will be stronger against others.

Strengths/Weaknesses:
Lasers: Strong against speed tank, weak against range tank.
AMCs: Strong against range tank, weak against speed tank.
Missiles: Strong against armour tank, strong against speed tank, weak against shield tank, weak against decoys/escorts.
Pulse: ?

Ion: Strong against shields, weak against armour.
Piercing: Strong against armour, weak against shields.
Punch-Through: All-round.
Move effects: No damage application. Good for tackle(EVE term for ships designed to slow down other ships).

Armour tank: Strong against Ion, weak against Punch-Through and Missiles.
Shield tank: Strong against Punch-Through and Missiles, weak against Ion.
Speed tank: Strong against AMCs, weak against Missiles and Lasers.
Range tank: Strong against Lasers and Pulses, weak against Missiles.

(If I've forgotten anything, please tell me)

How this works in theory, using DFN and Vaygr:
-DFN chose Ion, lasers, and Shield tank.
-Vaygr also chose Ion, but use sniper AMCs and armour tank.
-Vaygr now have an advantage over DFN, as they can damage DFN, but DFN can't damage them so well.

So, if people could tell me which factions are using which weapons/tanking methods, that would be great, and maybe start a metagame, which wouldn't be great.

 

[CyberTao]

One would think that, weapon Combinations, as well as Ratios and effects, would not be public info o- o Its easy to counter if you know what they are using, so keeping that secret would Add to faction fleet building, yes?

 

[kupu]

...That means that each faction will probably decide on a damage type and tank type.

The new weapon update discourages exactly this.

 

[CyberTao]

The new weapon update discourages exactly this.

Not quite "Discourages". All weapons do 5 dps per block, so there is no "Best". So there is no Choice for all factions, but thats not what he's asking.

What is asking is what Weapons factions fleets are going to use primarily (for their fleets) and what Passives (you cant fit them all on 1 ship). Factions WILL decide on which weapons and effects they thing are more worth having :u and thats what he's asking.

Example A - Faction prefers Fast ships, so they Opt to use Overdrive and thrusters (which are now linear and need more block count) and long range weapons (Sniper Cannons and Long ranged missiles)

Example B - Faction Prefers Shields and Absorbing Said Damage, so they will Add more shields in place of thrust, and Add an "Ion" effect to increase their shields. And since they can take the extra damage, may opt for closer ranged weapons like Beams and Artillery.

This is useful info cause it tells you what kind of ships they have, and how you could counter them :u And yes, every faction will Dabble in all of them, but will probably prefer a select few.

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

It certainly does not discourage it, it even creates the possibility. Before you had two weapon systems, that's it. There's no choice there. Just big or small.

 

[kupu]

...

What is asking is what Weapons factions fleets are going to use primarily (for their fleets) and what Passives (you cant fit them all on 1 ship). Factions WILL decide on which weapons and effects they thing are more worth having :u and thats what he's asking....

Ah, i see. Time to sleep! -__-
Yea, i imagine certain factions will favour different weapon / system styles overall.

It certainly does not discourage it, it even creates the possibility. Before you had two weapon systems, that's it. There's no choice there. Just big or small.

Having a choice of big or bigger was pretty detrimental to gameplay. It created a linear meta-game revolving around (almost only) gigantism.

Newer weapons, especially the tertiary effects encourage a faction / fleet to purposely build multiple ship roles / specs.

 

[Leanson]

I like making big ships and in combat and in real life the one with the biggest and the most guns wins. The goal should not be to limit the weapons so that users are limited and so their ships. But provide a balance to the weapons so that their are many different possibilities and combinations, each with its strengths and weaknesses. This enables not the biggest weapon with by the correct combination. Rock paper scissors anyone and therefore not creating a linear meta game revolving around gigantism. But yes with ships the larger it is the more powerful it becomes. Builders will use the weapons, specs, and current limitations and push them to as far as they will go in many different sizes, roles, and specs. I don't like the idea that some people have to limit ship size. The game should be tested and the majority of players will do with their ships.

 

[FlyingDebris]

I think that the bigger is better mentality is good, until the ships are so big that they crash most clients, and servers when they fight eachother.

I noticed this problem with the DFN Malevolentia. Originally, this ship was designed to be the biggest, baddest motherf***er out there. It succeeded. Working in pairs, these ships laid waste to many a faction.

And that's the issue.

We were (and still are) in an ongoing arms race against other factions. Currently, we are about to come off the line with a ship that is larger than 90% of everything out there. However, due to the arms race, it's just marginally better than the ships of the same class other factions are coming out with. Smaller factions, or people newer to the game, they just can't compare to the Cherokee, the Czar, the Kraken, ships like that. So, you get a community where the larger factions are always trying to outdo one another, leaving other people in the dust until eventually these factions have ships so large they themselves cannot operate them.

What we really need is a way to counter large ships with smaller, less laggy ones. However, this isn't post-WWII China where victory matters more than human life and wave after wave of people are sent rushing at a hardened target. People just don't have the manpower to make a fighter squadron or escort for a larger ship practical. So, how do we make the ability to use carriers, fighter squadrons, and bombers practical? Some sort of anti-capital weapon may be the answer. Hard hitting, bypasses or is only lightly effected by shields, in a small package, with a long reload or one time use. Now, people will start arguing that capships would use this weapon and break the game. So to counter this, you need to make it a horrible weapon choice for capships. Perhaps, make it drain all your shields when fired, and have it travel extremely slow?

Either way, there are lots of ways to go about combatting gigantism. Making waves of small craft possible would certainly help that along.

 

[TwoNiner]

working on an armor tanking, ion laser shooting, drone carrying Armageddon Cruiser now :3

 

[kiwionthemoon]

Well, a faction leader would have to be rather absent in the head to share the weapon combinations he plans on using. So this adds a rather interesting new pane to the meta game, knowing which weapons your enemy favours. Of course, after a couple of months most people will know what factions use, unless that faction changes their weapons regularly.

 

[ridik_ulass]

Did someone say "meta game"?

Well, a faction leader would have to be rather absent in the head to share the weapon combinations he plans on using. So this adds a rather interesting new pane to the meta game, knowing which weapons your enemy favours. Of course, after a couple of months most people will know what factions use, unless that faction changes their weapons regularly.

Kiwi, its like you don't even know I exist. this is exactly the kind of useful information, an information broker like myself would sell, Hopefully it will give me new business and new business partners.

 

[zorozeenee]

-Vaygr also chose Ion, but use sniper AMCs and armour tank.
maybe start a metagame, which wouldn't be great.

Ion is broken it doesnt work, and when did i say chose sniper amcs and armour tank?

Sorry if this is just for example

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

Huh? Ion does work. 100% Ion effect means your weapons do double damage against shield, but barely any (or even none?) against hull.

 

[TwoNiner]

Well, a faction leader would have to be rather absent in the head to share the weapon combinations he plans on using. So this adds a rather interesting new pane to the meta game, knowing which weapons your enemy favours. Of course, after a couple of months most people will know what factions use, unless that faction changes their weapons regularly.

common, cant we just have a lil fun? besides, im not saying the entire calderon navy is gonna be built that way...

 

[Ozwart]

Then people should be wiser , Imo i think ship should be limited not too much , but 1 000 000 blocks ship is more than enough.
Also If a faction build a doom ship that one faction alone cant destroy , people should be intelligent enough to create a coalition to attack it.

 

[therimmer96]

Not relevent at all, but I have just spent the last 10 minutes staring at that image chuckling to my self

 

[kiwionthemoon]

Did someone say "meta game"?




Kiwi, its like you don't even know I exist. this is exactly the kind of useful information, an information broker like myself would sell, Hopefully it will give me new business and new business partners.

Who are you? sorry i dont think your significant enough for me.. :P

 

[Deleted member 301635]

Some predictions as to how the metagame will evolve, should it happen:
Before the last update(0th Generation): AMCs, no special effects, shield/speed tank.
Currently/Immediate Future(1st Generation): Lasers, Ion, armour tank(?).
2nd Generation: Missiles, Piercing/Punch-Through, Blast, range tank.
3rd Generation(Starts to get a bit hard to predict): EMP(?), Missiles(?).

 

[zorozeenee]

Huh? Ion does work. 100% Ion effect means your weapons do double damage against shield, but barely any (or even none?) against hull.

ive tested it when a patch or 2 after the new weapons came out, had no effect and cut shield damage in half, like all the other effects

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

Not for me. For me it doubled damage against shields but lowered it against hull.