Massive Game Optimisation is Required and the possibility of using Steam for multiplayer services

[Zer0_Davahum]

Massive Game Optimisation should be prioritised in my honest opinion, StarMade devs are currently focused on adding new features, but every feature they are adding is simply adding more code to process, and the devs have literaly NEVER released a MAJOR OPTIMISATION PATCH as a result of this path they devs have taken:

Fleet Battles with large ships cause serverwide hard crashes.
LOTS OF BUGS THAT CAN BE EASILY FIXED
Connection issues when game is lagging
I have to dedicate 2 gigs of ram to this game to run it!

For these reasons and lots more i call upon the devs of this game to FOCUS ALL THEIR ATTENTION on optimising the game to run without lag, and process all the code of the new feautures you are adding instead of optimising.



As for the possibility of using Steam for multiplayer services:

This was an idea i had since StarMade was released on Steam, rather than use a java based connection system to connect to servers (BUGGY) we could possibly use Steam to connect and host servers this opens the door to oppurtunities such as:

Valve Anti Cheat (VAC)
Lots less bugs when connecting to a server
Lots less lag when playing on a server
The ability to join other players multiplayer sessions through steam rather than needing to be given an ip
Hosting "Schine Official Servers"
Security during a multiplayer session from MITMs and Javas current connection code (has lots of security flaws)

 

[TheBlueThunder]

Welcome to StarMade and good luck...

 

[BDLS]

Soon™

;^)))))))




edit: this seems like a most excellent time to bring back the [optimistic] rating. come on, it's a great part of starmade forums history and should be part of the community once again!

 

[Lecic]

and the devs have literaly NEVER released a MAJOR OPTIMISATION PATCH

I'm going to just quick point out that this is total bullshit- Schema does optimizations in nearly every update. The large majority 0.14 update was (in Schema's own words) a major optimization patch, which redesigned massive amounts of how chunks are rendered, and if you actually read the changelogs, you'd see nearly every one contains optimizations.

I have to dedicate 2 gigs of ram to this game to run it!

That's... really not that much. Even most older computers have 4 to 6, and most computers now-a-days have 8+.

For these reasons and lots more i call upon the devs of this game to FOCUS ALL THEIR ATTENTION on optimising the game to run without lag, and process all the code of the new feautures you are adding instead of optimising.

It's an alpha game. The focus is SUPPOSED to be features, with optimizations and bugfixes taking a back seat. If we're in beta and features are still the focus? Sure, then you've got reason to complain. But you're playing an alpha game. You shouldn't expect everything to run as smooth as it could be.

EDIT-

http://star-made.org/news/starmade-v0-8999-some-serious-optimizations-and-balance-changes

Would you look at that, an update focused on optimizations! Wow, it's almost like Schema does a lot of that for an alpha game.

 

[TheBlueThunder]

I'm going to just quick point out that this is total bullshit- Schema does optimizations in nearly every update. The large majority 0.14 update was (in Schema's own words) a major optimization patch, which redesigned massive amounts of how chunks are rendered, and if you actually read the changelogs, you'd see nearly every one contains optimizations.



That's... really not that much. Even most older computers have 4 to 6, and most computers now-a-days have 8+.



It's an alpha game. The focus is SUPPOSED to be features, with optimizations and bugfixes taking a back seat. If we're in beta and features are still the focus? Sure, then you've got reason to complain. But you're playing an alpha game. You shouldn't expect everything to run as smooth as it could be.

EDIT-

http://star-made.org/news/starmade-v0-8999-some-serious-optimizations-and-balance-changes

Would you look at that, an update focused on optimizations! Wow, it's almost like Schema does a lot of that for an alpha game.

That's one way of getting new players to leave. Be a little nicer.

 

[Lecic]

That's one way of getting new players to leave. Be a little nicer.

It's one thing to be mean to newbies. It's another to call out a person who's making hilariously inaccurate claims and ridiculous demands.

 

[Zer0_Davahum]

Lecic i have no idea what you have against me, but please, im sure you of all people would agree that StarMade is slow im sure you heard about the time on GenXNova that the server Hardcrashed about 3 times during a fleet battle

 

[Zer0_Davahum]

It's also another thing being a fanboy attacking someone that doesn't know that information. Just try to balance it out and not be a jerk, I guess that's why BH likes picking on you.

Key wording here is: I guess that's why BH likes picking on you.


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I'm going to just quick point out that this is total bullshit- Schema does optimizations in nearly every update. The large majority 0.14 update was (in Schema's own words) a major optimization patch, which redesigned massive amounts of how chunks are rendered, and if you actually read the changelogs, you'd see nearly every one contains optimizations.



That's... really not that much. Even most older computers have 4 to 6, and most computers now-a-days have 8+.



It's an alpha game. The focus is SUPPOSED to be features, with optimizations and bugfixes taking a back seat. If we're in beta and features are still the focus? Sure, then you've got reason to complain. But you're playing an alpha game. You shouldn't expect everything to run as smooth as it could be.

EDIT-

http://star-made.org/news/starmade-v0-8999-some-serious-optimizations-and-balance-changes

Would you look at that, an update focused on optimizations! Wow, it's almost like Schema does a lot of that for an alpha game.

On another note, having to dedicate RAM at all to games these days says a lot about how poorly optimised the game is

And did 0.14 fix the fact that fleet battles crash servers? the answer is no so therefore the patch was not effective.

and finialy

Minecraft had quite a few major optimisation during its alpha stage in fact features we not really focuses on until beta and thats how it should be!

 

[Comr4de]

Man, talk about bad execution. I agree with your sentiment but your demands are just ridiculous

I have to dedicate 2 gigs of ram to this game to run it!

A lot of games use far more ram than that to run. Here's a support forum thread from 2012 where 2gb of ram was just fine. It is 2015 now. Drop 50$ for some ripjaws or some shit.

For reference, these are the minimum and recommended requirements for running Homeworld Remastered. Sure, you can run with 1GB of ram on fucking Vista but it will run like shit. Upgrade your rig.

Edit: Fractured Space system requirements.
Payday 2 system requirements

This was an idea i had since StarMade was released on Steam, rather than use a java based connection system to connect to servers (BUGGY) we could possibly use Steam to connect and host servers this opens the door to oppurtunities such as:

bruh what

The game is coded in java. The schine engine IS java. I'm not sure what you're asking for here other than to have steam handle server connections. Plus, I really love it when I get disconnected from my games because Steam servers decided to go down.

For these reasons and lots more i call upon the devs of this game to FOCUS ALL THEIR ATTENTION on optimising the game to run without lag, and process all the code of the new feautures you are adding instead of optimising.

You are contradicting yourself in the same sentence here.
I'm not as experienced in computer science but you can't just release a completely bug-free game. Asking for this is absurd and unrealistic. Show me a game which has a completely bug-free final release and I'll eat a hat on camera.


Now I do agree that there needs to be less waiting for a new feature to roll out bugfixes. That is silly. But that's really all I agree with here.

 

[Lecic]

Lecic i have no idea what you have against me, but please, im sure you of all people would agree that StarMade is slow im sure you heard about the time on GenXNova that the server Hardcrashed about 3 times during a fleet battle

Yes, I'm aware that Odium and Dread Syndicate tried to have a fleet battle and the server crashed. The game undergoes a lot of optimizations. I never said it was perfectly optimized. I'm saying that Schema does (honestly, probably too much for an alpha) optimization for the game, including optimization focused patches often, so your claims he doesn't are bullshit.

If he optimized the game right now, it'd be a waste of time, because new features would mess with it. That's why you optimize after features are done.

It's also another thing being a fanboy attacking someone that doesn't know that information. Just try to balance it out and not be a jerk, I guess that's why BH likes picking on you.

It's not like the information is hard to find. If you're going to make wide claims, make sure they're at least partially true first. Also, do you REALLY need to bring faction politics into this? Grow up.

Key wording here is: I guess that's why BH likes picking on you.

Look, you're new and from GenX, so I'm going to assume you haven't heard the full story about the guy, but you probably shouldn't be supporting a guy who got banned from the forums for doxxing, then repeatedly returned on alts to scream in chat for 10 seconds before mods banned him for hours afterwards.

 

[kiraen]

Regarding optimization:
Schine Defense Force....yada yada yada. It's late and I need to get up early. To re-hash the old ( and getting older) arguments, just skim through these threads.

http://starmadedock.net/threads/parody-current-release-state-accroding-to-humble-player.20402/
http://starmadedock.net/threads/fix-the-beams-and-quit-screwing-with-feature-additions.20174/

regarding ram requirements: I have 2 gigs total. Starmade has to share with windows, anti-virus, and a few other background processes. I just stay away from planets. As features are added, I expect it to get worse. I don't think the minimum requirements have been set and if Schine says '2 gigs' I will eat my hat. Time to upgrade, for both of us.

regarding steam: please [deity of your choice] no.
VAC is buggy, I don't believe Schine plans on hosting official public servers, and the rest is just code that needs to be optimized. That's what you want, right?
Joining other players sessions is your only valid argument. It is far out weighed by the complexity and time consuming process of inserting steam code into an existing engine. Schema might as well just scrap Starmade and start over, it'll be faster and easier. But hey, let's add this new feature anyway.

(and just so we are clear, i bought the game via steam, i have more then 150 games on steam, I know how horrible steam is)

Bed time.

 

[Criss]

The last time Schema fixed the major bugs a patch did not drop for months. Literally months. People thought the game was dead. They moved on and we had a fraction of the people around that originally discovered the game during the yogswarm. I guess I will try and explain how focusing solely on bug fixing during this period is counter productive.

There are SO many features that still need to go into this game that we would never see it done if we focused on fixing bugs before getting those features in. If every few months schema decides to put everything on hold to do bugfixing this game will go nowhere. What Schine needs is resources and time. Only one developer works on this full time. I wouldn't expect bugs to be fixed with mostly one man working.

The best thing you can do is replicate issues and submit bug reports. If those issues can be identified and they are legit concerns then they get patched. Otherwise Schine has to rely on the few testers messing around with the immediate changes and nothing else.

 

[MrFURB]

Howdy folks. Hold tight, I'm going to lock the thread temporarily while I perform a cleanup and apply points.

Edit: Sorry about the delay, there are some issues with the site that I'm attempting to work on right now. Carry on, and be constructive.

 

[Nauvran]

The last time Schema fixed the major bugs a patch did not drop for months. Literally months. People thought the game was dead. They moved on and we had a fraction of the people around that originally discovered the game during the yogswarm. I guess I will try and explain how focusing solely on bug fixing during this period is counter productive.

There are SO many features that still need to go into this game that we would never see it done if we focused on fixing bugs before getting those features in. If every few months schema decides to put everything on hold to do bugfixing this game will go nowhere. What Schine needs is resources and time. Only one developer works on this full time. I wouldn't expect bugs to be fixed with mostly one man working.

The best thing you can do is replicate issues and submit bug reports. If those issues can be identified and they are legit concerns then they get patched. Otherwise Schine has to rely on the few testers messing around with the immediate changes and nothing else.

^This.
The problem is just that:
Too many features are getting added and not enough fixes are made, this is making the game more and more unplayable, especially on servers.
But then again as you said, if the devs focus too much on fixing the game then the community will get bored since it will seem like the game has come to a dead end.

What Schema and the crew needs to do is to find the balance of fixing bugs and creating new features. Maybe even divide the team somehow so that some focus on fixing all the broken stuff and some continue to develop the features.
And please, please try and iron out all the devastating bugs that comes along a new feature before putting the dev version in release.

 

[Jaaskinal]

~snip~

I agree about the balancing between bug fixing and optimizations vs content development, but the largest group of testers for balancing is in the most recent stable build and not in dev. Glaring issues should obviously be fixed in dev, but subtle things should be tested by the community. If you go out of your way to make sure everything in dev is perfect, it'll be the same issue as too much bug fixing in general.

 

[kupu]

the devs have literaly NEVER released a MAJOR OPTIMISATION PATCH

http://star-made.org/news/starmade-v0-8999-some-serious-optimizations-and-balance-changes

What Schema and the crew needs to do is to find the balance of fixing bugs and creating new features.

See,

What Schine needs is resources and time.

There have been a few of these threads pop up recently. It's great to see impassioned responses to the game and a desire to see it improve. However the main issue with them is a fundamental lack of understanding on the team's time, staffing and financial restraints.

Cracking the whip won't make anyone work faster. Just bleed quicker.

Help us. http://starmadedock.net/threads/tester-recruitment-and-new-bug-tracker.20000/

 

[Reilly Reese]

I'd just like to point out to Lecic that Starmade is not like most Alphas. In it's Alpha stage it is already on steam and has a much larger community than most other Alphas.

 

[Winterhome]

If you spend all of your time fixing bugs, the game becomes less optimized.
If you optimize the game, it introduces thousands of new gamebreaking bugs.

VAC works with games based on C and the like - specifically, Valve's game engines. Trying to apply VAC to a java game is like trying to fly a submarine.

 

[Valiant70]

I'll just leave my two cents here for y'all to chew on.

The current development strategy is pretty reasonable for an alpha game. Once we're in beta, I'll join you in shouting for bug fixes and optimizations. That said, there are some bugs that turn out to be more annoying than they probably sound on the bug tracker. One in a while we need a patch to fix several "pet peeve" bugs chosen by the players. Optimizations are coming along all right overall.

 

[Keptick]

Key wording here is: I guess that's why BH likes picking on you.


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On another note, having to dedicate RAM at all to games these days says a lot about how poorly optimised the game is

And did 0.14 fix the fact that fleet battles crash servers? the answer is no so therefore the patch was not effective.

and finialy

Minecraft had quite a few major optimisation during its alpha stage in fact features we not really focuses on until beta and thats how it should be!

Minecraft alpha was a buggy mess of half-assed features and practically no bug fixing.