fix the beams and quit screwing with feature additions

    Ithirahad

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    That's not even a quarter of the community
    So? I'm not really a PvPer, and I get ships partially wrecked sometimes, combat and ship damage, whether PvP or PvE (or just running into a sun), is a base game mechanic and having to completely take apart and respawn a ship (Or go through the massive pain of manually repairing) just because it got a few craters blown in it is silly.
     

    Winterhome

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    So? I'm not really a PvPer, and I get ships partially wrecked sometimes, combat and ship damage, whether PvP or PvE (or just running into a sun), is a base game mechanic and having to completely take apart and respawn a ship (Or go through the massive pain of manually repairing) just because it got a few craters blown in it is silly.

    The point is that it's being presented as though hardcore PVPers are the only community members worth representing.

    Features in general make the game better for newbies, and honestly, the newbies are the important ones. We have a shitload of people who want to explore or do industrial stuff or whatever, but leave because they can't.
     
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    The people working on fauna would be people skilled in graphics, modeling, maybe AI coding. The people working on shipyards would be much more into the guts of the coding, a very different skill set. It is not do one or the other. There are different people working on different things, and things will get done as they get them done.
     

    Ithirahad

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    The people working on fauna would be people skilled in graphics, modeling, maybe AI coding. The people working on shipyards would be much more into the guts of the coding, a very different skill set. It is not do one or the other. There are different people working on different things, and things will get done as they get them done.
    Yes, but in the end Schine only has three coders, and only one (Schema) really knows his engine for the time being, as far as I know.
     
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    The point is that it's being presented as though hardcore PVPers are the only community members worth representing.
    Hah, did it really sound like that? It was just a point. Like Ithirahad said, everyone would benefit.
     
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    As someone who literally just got back from planet mining

    There are a couple things to be aware of. Planetmining isn't that stressful on the server except in a few specific circumstances.

    The most obvious one is mining multiple planet plates at the same time. This will hurt the server and is the most common way to cause a server crash (or at least make the game unplayable). The second one is mining with a shitty computer. If your computer can't render a planet it'll hurt your performance (and for reasons unknown to me) also hurt the server.

    Saying that asteroid mining is more profitable is just completely false. In the 20 minutes that I was parked over a planet for an extraction run, I pulled out upwards of 800k ore/crystal. In an asteroid mining run of the same duration, I only pulled in 150k. Please be aware that this is on shattered skies, where mining income is super high.

    Furthermore planets are the most common (or rather, reliable) sources of sertise/rammet, the two resources required for shield capacitors. It is FAR more profitable to park over a planet and know that at least one planet plate will have the resources you need rather than fly around for a few hours looking for one or two larimar rocks.

    That's not even a quarter of the community


    Haha! I knew my survey would be useful someday! Even though the PVP group is in the minority, they still constitute nearly 40% of the respondents. That's a bit more than "less than a quarter".

    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1a_...cohqzkQJwdnTJQ/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm

    There were 24 respondents who didn't answer this question; when I first uploaded the survey, the question wasn't in there. After someone pointed out that I forgot it I added the question but forgot to make the question required. There are about 24 people who completed the survey who didn't answer that question but for the sake of this discussion it doesn't matter.


    Triple edit: I don't think telling people to shut up if they don't like it is a very good idea. It's clear that these complaints have some basis in reality; they aren't just popping up out of nowhere. Just because they're being obnoxious about their complaints doesn't mean they're invalid.

    Quad edit: I stole that last paragraph from someone on the skub engineers forums, where complaints about unplayability and perceived lack of bugfixing are rampant.
     
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    Criss

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    Yeah... I get this, but my question is, why announce mines as though they're all planned out and balanced, then six months later, release a weapons update that doesn't have mines, and when the community asks why, say that you still have no idea how they should work? I'm no game development project manager, but doesn't the workflow go something like:
    Well then that is the fault of whoever announced it at the time. During which Schema was working alone and probably had other things to work on. Sure we could say literally nothing until right before something is released, but then you guys would probably find this very boring and loose a bit of faith in the direction we want to take the game. For the record, there are tons of things not on that roadmap that we are not talking about yet.
     
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    Ithirahad

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    Well then that is the fault of whoever announced it at the time. During which Schema was working alone and probably had other things to work on. Sure we could say literally nothing until right before something is released, but then you guys would probably find this very boring and loose a bit of faith in the direction we want to take the game. For the record, there are tons of things not on that roadmap that we are not talking about yet.
    I'm not talking about cases where the coders don't have time to get something into an update... From what I've heard, the mines weren't even planned out which is why they didn't make it into the release. I'm not saying not to talk about things until they're finished, I'm saying not to talk about things as though they're coming in the next update if you don't even know how they ought to work yet.
     

    Criss

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    I'm not talking about cases where the coders don't have time to get something into an update... From what I've heard, the mines weren't even planned out which is why they didn't make it into the release. I'm not saying not to talk about things until they're finished, I'm saying not to talk about things as though they're coming in the next update if you don't even know how they ought to work yet.
    It's more complicated then that. It could have been a technical issue, it could be a balancing issue. IIRC the only new weapon added during that update was the pulse. That's easy. It's an explosion at a fixed point on the barrel of the gun. Mine layers are simply different enough to warrant a discussion on their implementation and maybe even hold off on putting them in game if there is a better solution.
     
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    Does it not also massively lag the server?

    D'oh! Ninja-ed.
    Much depends on the server, trick is (IMHO) to tailor your rig to the server, few servers I've seen can actually handle those monster auto-miner 150meter boom deals working on a planet. I run arrays running from 4x11 beams 60 deep to 6x15 80deep (salvage/cannon) without issue, but different for each server, I just kept adding on, when it started to lag I backed off and nobody seems to have had any issues. Except of course when I'm not paying attention and overrun the segment edge too fast 8-/
     
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    As a software developer, and someone who manages a small team of software developers as part of my job, I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the pace of development. Looking at the front page, I see four pretty good size releases in about 3 months. As a point of comparison, modern agile development processes usually have 2-4 week "sprints " from release to release, so Schine looks pretty good as far as update timeline is concerned. My development team targets dot-builds on a 4-6 week timeframe, so there's another favorable data point there, too.

    How about the content they deliver each release? In my opinion, the amount of update content delivered is very high for a small team working on an average ~2 week development cycle. A rough count of updates show since June they've squashed ~120-150 reported bugs. If they're anything like me, that doesn't always include deep "plumbing" related bugs that are important to fix but are difficult to report out to laymen with no familiarity with the codebase. It probably also doesn't include bugs that creep into the initial implementation of new features but are zapped before the new feature goes live.

    In addition, it looks like there are maybe 6-12 notable features or improvements to discuss per update. Doing a little math, that works out to 4 updates * avg. 9 features/update, so roughly 36 features over 3 months, or roughly 12 features a month based on the past 3 months. Some of those features might be "easier," like new assets, but some of them are more complicated, like creative mode and ship docks, so I'll call it a wash on complexity. So, it looks like maybe a dozen features a month, and closure of 40-50 bugs per month on top of that. If it takes 3 hours to close a bug and verify it, there's 120-150 hours right there (3 man-weeks of effort). Add maybe another 2-4 man weeks for features if you assume it's only a day or two to implement each one. That a lot of throughput for a few full time developers and some volunteers.

    Now, on top of the raw time it took to write the code or implement the features/improvements, you need to factor in time for planning for the road map, peer reviews (if they do them), socialization of design/architecture decisions across the team, testing of new features (including developing any unit tests or internal test procedures and regression testing of all the content that's already in the game), the boring aspects of running even a tiny business, web site maintenance, community involvement, etc.

    I'm not trying to say that Schine is perfect - I don't know them, and I don't know the innards of their business. But from what I can tell based on the high level of community involvement, their release schedule, my experience in software development, and my time in the game, these people love what they do and do a damn good job of delivering product. If you and I have to be patient with some bugs so they can stay on their development road map and continue to mature this game, I'm OK with that. I'd rather have a buggy alpha and a chance to influence the direction of the game than no product until a beta release.

    If you disagree, and think Schine is failing to properly manage their development, that's cool. There are plenty of ways for you to benefit from your foresight. Offer your management or development experience to help get them on the right track; they might just take you up on it. No useful experience? Convince a hotshot friend to put in some time, and fish for a referral bonus. No useful friends? OK then, see if enough people like you believe Schine is screwing up and will cough up some venture capital to buy them out. Starmade is pretty solid and I'm sure you could make a good return on your investment, once a competent development team is at the helm.

    Or, you know, you could just vent on the forum that the free alpha game doesn't have enough performance for your liking, and that new content is a waste of everyone's time. :rolleyes: