You Have Failed Us

[Micro753]

I love how all the people claiming power 2.0 isn't something to worry about are all newbies. Sorry, pal, I've been here for 6 years.

I've been with this game since 2012, and I think it's a fine system. Just needs balancing. And a lot of people I've seen supporting the new power are old players, not just new players.

 

[Reilly Reese]

I've been with this game since 2012, and I think it's a fine system. Just needs balancing. And a lot of people I've seen supporting the new power are old players, not just new players.

Define your version of old.

 

[CyberTao]

Honestly, a lot of older players can agree that there is some good in the new system. Its more so the lack of listening, lack of effort to at least provide something playable (people were still reporting some big issues when they went to public release), lack of communication, lack of willingness.

When 2.0 was first came to Devbuild, people liked the idea, but hated how it was done. Mostly the stablizers. You literally could have removed the stabilisers and it would have shut 80% of them up, but instead they violently defended them and then they went public and suddenly they started making them a lot more like old old power.

Some people will leave, some will lurk and keep an eye open. You'll notice that the peak players will spike when an update drops, those are the ones still waiting and hoping schine will pull the mouth off their foot.

 

[GDPR 302420]

Before you say "doesn't matter, alpha", It does matter. Schine is a small studio, as everyone is fond of saying. What this means is that they can't afford the 100+ testers needed to ensure quality, so they rely of the players.

Fucking this.

Less people available to test your game when you cannot afford professional testers = Lower quality product.

To top it all off, almost all of the veteran "minmaxxers" have been driven off the game, this is close to a deathblow as these "minmaxxers" were the only people who were pushing the game to its absolute limits and finding the bugs and balance issues as they did so.

To give you an idea on how bad this is for Schine, allow me to tell you a little story of a man named Veilith.

So back in the days of TAW and other servers around at the time, pretty much every factions vessel were nowhere near what near as effective as they could not have been, along comes Veilith who was probably one of the only people who was pushing the limits of the game at the time and next thing you know he has 12k mass ships massacring a fleet consisting of several 100k vessels from factions who at the time were considered the more powerful forum factions.

Veilith was labelled many things such as a hacker, exploiter and toxic by many people for this, much like how some portions of the community labelled the minmaxers that have packed up from this game after 2.0 as toxic. So Veilith starts sharing his knowledge with others, suddenly we have people like Zyrr, Az1, Non and many others who are pushing the limits and discovering new ways to push the limits of the game day after day. Its safe to say that this "meta revolution" would not have occurred if Veilith kept his mouth shut and kept his methods to himself.


Now translate this into StarMade testing and you see the issues, it was the meta players who got long time exploits patched, it was the meta players who discovered and publicised the spaghetti meta and caused Schine to do something about it, although their solution was terrible at best, its safe to say that if these minmaxers didn't start talking about it Schine would not have even known of the spaghetti meta existing in the first place. Schine themselves have admitted on record that they barley play the game themselves, their lead tester Lancake can be quoted saying he has not played this game outside of testing reported bugs for over 2 years!

So now these players have been driven off, which becomes a significant problem in the long term for Schine as what is left doesnt seem to be interested in minmaxxing and the game isnt gaining any new players who might be willing minmax it. The end result? Balance issues that nobody knows exist, exploits that remain undiscovered and unreported and much more making it into the final release of this game (if that ever happens)

Its a matter of common sense to see what happens when gamebreaking issues are left undiscovered and making it into the final release because nobody has bothered to seek these issues out.

 

[kulbolen]

Schine has NO PROBLEM with veterans, minmaxers, PVP'ers or Pushing the limits of Starmade. All are encouraged.
Schine is actively discouraging Flaming, Trolling, Baiting, and Hostility on the forums.

veteran ≠ hostile
minmaxer ≠ hostile
PVP'er ≠ hostile
Pusing the limits of Starmade ≠ hostile

hostile = Being a Jerk
hostile = actively discouraged by Schine



What does the Alpha argument have to do with anything you said about Minmaxers and veterans?

what does a developer releasing a bad game update, ruining pvp and combat in general, have to do with your forum moderation decisions?

 

[Calhoun]

What does the Alpha argument have to do with anything you said about Minmaxers and veterans?

If you read his entire comment you would see what it has to do with it. It's spelt out quite clearly.

Furthermore, to use your own words, what do the forums have to do with the Power 2.0 update and the "alpha" argument?

And I don't know fam, but that post seems a bit hostile to me

 

[GDPR 302420]

Schine has NO PROBLEM with veterans, minmaxers, PVP'ers or Pushing the limits of Starmade. All are encouraged.
Schine is actively discouraging Flaming, Trolling, Baiting, and Hostility on the forums.

veteran ≠ hostile
minmaxer ≠ hostile
PVP'er ≠ hostile
Pusing the limits of Starmade ≠ hostile

hostile = Being a Jerk
hostile = actively discouraged by Schine

What does the Alpha argument have to do with anything you said about Minmaxers and veterans?

My argument has nothing to do with forum changes, moderation or enforcement of rules, please read my actual post before you jump the assumption that I am attacking SMD and its staff.

Also if you read my post you would be able to anser that question about the alpha argument yourself.

 

[YamiHikari]

You gotta know everyone will take that as a challenge.

The fact that they're still here poking the fire and reading such posts pretty much means they either already came back or never left. And if neither of these things are true, their obsession with remaining involved in the forum still pretty much says, in plain terminator terms, "I'll be back."

 

[Az14el]

We basically got delivered a release patch that breaks some of the most important social features in the game, that is, how our ships interact with eachother. But lets stop this whole thread and argue over who's being a meanie, cool stuff

or just accept the harsh complaints as a result of a harsh update

 

[Calhoun]

We basically got delivered a release patch that breaks some of the most important social features in the game, that is, how our ships interact with eachother. But lets stop this whole thread and argue over who's being a meanie, cool stuff

or just accept the harsh complaints as a result of a harsh update

Character assassination, reborted

 

[kulbolen]

The fact that they're still here poking the fire and reading such posts pretty much means they either already came back or never left. And if neither of these things are true, their obsession with remaining involved in the forum still pretty much says, in plain terminator terms, "I'll be back."

it could also mean a number of other things but those would be inconvenient to the argument.

 

[Az14el]

for what its worth, a lot of us havn't even "left" and never planned too, there's like a handful of people making dramatic exit threads for a variety of (sometimes pretty laughable) reasons and some maybe reading a bit much into that as some kind of "pvper movement", for whatever reason. Of those that really have moved on, not many really have seemed to care enough to mention it.

That said, no 2.0 patch so far has really been worth my time to play online much, because 1; i can't find people with half working scanning systems (still no navigation data feed) 2; i can't build how i want (a lot of decorative/exposed systems and relatively compact/utilitarian guts, look in my CC for an idea), 3; i can't shoot people (or anybodys 2.0 creations for that matter, AI is just broken against anything with new systems in online play as of .334), let alone stop them from just jumping away, beyond building a ship, mining endlessly, and fighting a bunch of isanths, there's pretty much nothing to do that isn't hampered by bugs or broken mechanics.

So myself, probably a lot of other "bitter vets", just dont really have much to do in the current patch beyond figure out what just doesn't work & be disappointed about it. Which didn't take long for a lot of people.

 

[Reilly Reese]

The fact that they're still here poking the fire and reading such posts pretty much means they either already came back or never left. And if neither of these things are true, their obsession with remaining involved in the forum still pretty much says, in plain terminator terms, "I'll be back."

Oh no, we've pretty much stopped playing, we're just still trying to point out the major flaws in hopes that Schine will finally notice and do something.

It's pretty much a hopeless effort considering they seem deadset but still.

 

[Dire Venom]

Oh no, we've pretty much stopped playing, we're just still trying to point out the major flaws in hopes that Schine will finally notice and do something.

It's pretty much a hopeless effort considering they seem deadset but still.

+1
I would suspect many of us don't boot up the game for much but seeing if updates are any good, and then go spend their time elsewhere.

Beyound making cool hulls theres pretty much 0 to do with the new update, other than hope it becomes less abrasive and limiting.

 

[MacThule]

Don't go so quick! - at least not if you have an interest in the building-fundamentals:

I was highly skeptical about original iterations of 2.0, and actually enjoyed 1.0 XYZ power-threading... Much of the (justified) criticism of the original 2.0 power system is now moot (IMO)- the multi-dimensional stabilizer system works well (not previous 2.0 stabalizer iteration, that was indeed terrible).

Other 2.0 systems and mechanics retain equal interest and challenges to 1.0 > integrity and shields might need some more work (and weapons) . Importantly: The pretty-builds and the power-builds both seem functional within their respective class and relative to the degree of their respective min-maxing (as far as i can see from brief testing anyway). THIS IS A SUCCESS ! , based on the Goals of the original 2.0 Dev Team.


Looking forward, much hinges (i would say) on things such as evolved fleet/ai and collision/damage-propagation as base systems.
Game-interest and universe content such as trading, factories etc seem 'bolt-on' in various possible iterations - content which I would be interested to see


[Ignore the forum toxicity, if you still have an interest in the fundamental game : i have never seen such buckets of non-sense as have been tossed around all over the place. Valid and useful points of view were obscured everywhere. 'Nuff said I'd say - lets move on. ]

This is all good info, but these people are making it very clear they are leaving without even seriously testing the updates. They are leaving either purely because of the toxic drama being perpetrated by the doom platoon, or resigning purely based on 2nd-hand accounts and floods of hyperbole. Leaving because they have been convinced by the loud minority on the docks chanting "Starmade is dead! All they veterans say it! Starmade is dead! Doom, doom, doom!"

Successful propaganda campaign is successful.

Also, so what. Not that individuals don't matter, but if someone allows themselves to be misled by emotive rants and bases their opinion of a thing entirely on the words of pundits without finding out firsthand, then they cannot be helped anyway. The reality is that only a minority are having serious trouble adapting... but they have swayed a much larger group with their social media campaign.

It doesn't take a horde to Alpha though, especially at this point in development. Schine seems to be getting very close to going Beta now, and when that happens Starmade will see a massive influx of new players.

 

[Az14el]

This is all good info, but these people are making it very clear they are leaving without even seriously testing the updates. They are leaving either purely because of the toxic drama being perpetrated by the doom platoon, or resigning purely based on 2nd-hand accounts and floods of hyperbole. Leaving because they have been convinced by the loud minority on the docks chanting "Starmade is dead! All they veterans say it! Starmade is dead! Doom, doom, doom!"

Successful propaganda campaign is successful.

Also, so what. Not that individuals don't matter, but if someone allows themselves to be misled by emotive rants and bases their opinion of a thing entirely on the words of pundits without finding out firsthand, then they cannot be helped anyway. The reality is that only a minority are having serious trouble adapting... but they have swayed a much larger group with their social media campaign.

It doesn't take a horde to Alpha though, especially at this point in development. Schine seems to be getting very close to going Beta now, and when that happens Starmade will see a massive influx of new players.

even just the posts on this page alone paint a very different story, there are a few who have supposedly left, many just aren't playing now because the gamestate isn't currently worth their time for a variety of game impacting reasons, i outlined mine above. These impact the basic testing i want to do on system 2.0 builds in the first place so it is very limiting as to what I can do online. I have no doubt that a lot of people playing for the combat & related engineering side of gameplay feel the same.

 

[kulbolen]

This is all good info, but these people are making it very clear they are leaving without even seriously testing the updates. They are leaving either purely because of the toxic drama being perpetrated by the doom platoon, or resigning purely based on 2nd-hand accounts and floods of hyperbole. Leaving because they have been convinced by the loud minority on the docks chanting "Starmade is dead! All they veterans say it! Starmade is dead! Doom, doom, doom!"

Successful propaganda campaign is successful.

Also, so what. Not that individuals don't matter, but if someone allows themselves to be misled by emotive rants and bases their opinion of a thing entirely on the words of pundits without finding out firsthand, then they cannot be helped anyway. The reality is that only a minority are having serious trouble adapting... but they have swayed a much larger group with their social media campaign.

It doesn't take a horde to Alpha though, especially at this point in development. Schine seems to be getting very close to going Beta now, and when that happens Starmade will see a massive influx of new players.

its entirely possible that they are leaving because they dont enjoy the game.

 

[The Judge]

Small relative to the base overall, and just because people agreed to points being raised, doesn't make the on the same wagon of those leaving upset.

Several dozen compared to the about 100 players per day is very, very large to the playerbase.

 

[GDPR 302420]

Schine seems to be getting very close to going Beta now, and when that happens Starmade will see a massive influx of new players.

Good luck marketing your game 1-2 years down the line when it has a 6 year reputation of being a buggy broken mess, a dead community and plenty of other games in the same genre which are superior to StarMade in both development and community.

If StarMade was one of maybe half a dozen games in its genre then maybe your statement would be accurate, however there are many games with StarMade's kind of gameplay that even now are much more complete and have much larger sustained communities then StarMade, games like Avorion, Empyrion and even the upcoming Dual Universe (assuming they deliver on their promises) just to name a few.

People are not going to come to StarMade when its hit beta, those players are going to other, superior titles.

 

[FlyingDebris]

This is all good info, but these people are making it very clear they are leaving without even seriously testing the updates. They are leaving either purely because of the toxic drama being perpetrated by the doom platoon, or resigning purely based on 2nd-hand accounts and floods of hyperbole. Leaving because they have been convinced by the loud minority on the docks chanting "Starmade is dead! All they veterans say it! Starmade is dead! Doom, doom, doom!"

Successful propaganda campaign is successful.

Also, so what. Not that individuals don't matter, but if someone allows themselves to be misled by emotive rants and bases their opinion of a thing entirely on the words of pundits without finding out firsthand, then they cannot be helped anyway. The reality is that only a minority are having serious trouble adapting... but they have swayed a much larger group with their social media campaign.

It doesn't take a horde to Alpha though, especially at this point in development. Schine seems to be getting very close to going Beta now, and when that happens Starmade will see a massive influx of new players.

I hate to break it to you but we tested the updates very thoroughly. It seems like most everyone who cares to put more than a few seconds of thought into their ships is coming to a similar conclusion as us.