You Have Failed Us

    Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ObiShawnKenobi, Feb 11, 2018.

    1. Micro753

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      I've been with this game since 2012, and I think it's a fine system. Just needs balancing. And a lot of people I've seen supporting the new power are old players, not just new players.
       
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    2. Thadius Faran

      Thadius Faran #1 Top Forum Poster & Raiben Jackpot Winner

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      Define your version of old.
       
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    3. CyberTao

      CyberTao 鬼佬

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      Honestly, a lot of older players can agree that there is some good in the new system. Its more so the lack of listening, lack of effort to at least provide something playable (people were still reporting some big issues when they went to public release), lack of communication, lack of willingness.

      When 2.0 was first came to Devbuild, people liked the idea, but hated how it was done. Mostly the stablizers. You literally could have removed the stabilisers and it would have shut 80% of them up, but instead they violently defended them and then they went public and suddenly they started making them a lot more like old old power.

      Some people will leave, some will lurk and keep an eye open. You'll notice that the peak players will spike when an update drops, those are the ones still waiting and hoping schine will pull the mouth off their foot.
       
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    4. RedAlert_007

      RedAlert_007 Former SMD Community Mentor

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      Fucking this.

      Less people available to test your game when you cannot afford professional testers = Lower quality product.

      To top it all off, almost all of the veteran "minmaxxers" have been driven off the game, this is close to a deathblow as these "minmaxxers" were the only people who were pushing the game to its absolute limits and finding the bugs and balance issues as they did so.

      To give you an idea on how bad this is for Schine, allow me to tell you a little story of a man named Veilith.

      So back in the days of TAW and other servers around at the time, pretty much every factions vessel were nowhere near what near as effective as they could not have been, along comes Veilith who was probably one of the only people who was pushing the limits of the game at the time and next thing you know he has 12k mass ships massacring a fleet consisting of several 100k vessels from factions who at the time were considered the more powerful forum factions.

      Veilith was labelled many things such as a hacker, exploiter and toxic by many people for this, much like how some portions of the community labelled the minmaxers that have packed up from this game after 2.0 as toxic. So Veilith starts sharing his knowledge with others, suddenly we have people like Zyrr, Az1, Non and many others who are pushing the limits and discovering new ways to push the limits of the game day after day. Its safe to say that this "meta revolution" would not have occurred if Veilith kept his mouth shut and kept his methods to himself.


      Now translate this into StarMade testing and you see the issues, it was the meta players who got long time exploits patched, it was the meta players who discovered and publicised the spaghetti meta and caused Schine to do something about it, although their solution was terrible at best, its safe to say that if these minmaxers didn't start talking about it Schine would not have even known of the spaghetti meta existing in the first place. Schine themselves have admitted on record that they barley play the game themselves, their lead tester Lancake can be quoted saying he has not played this game outside of testing reported bugs for over 2 years!

      So now these players have been driven off, which becomes a significant problem in the long term for Schine as what is left doesnt seem to be interested in minmaxxing and the game isnt gaining any new players who might be willing minmax it. The end result? Balance issues that nobody knows exist, exploits that remain undiscovered and unreported and much more making it into the final release of this game (if that ever happens)

      Its a matter of common sense to see what happens when gamebreaking issues are left undiscovered and making it into the final release because nobody has bothered to seek these issues out.
       
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    5. kulbolen

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      what does a developer releasing a bad game update, ruining pvp and combat in general, have to do with your forum moderation decisions?
       
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    6. Calhoun

      Calhoun Part-time God

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      If you read his entire comment you would see what it has to do with it. It's spelt out quite clearly.

      Furthermore, to use your own words, what do the forums have to do with the Power 2.0 update and the "alpha" argument?

      And I don't know fam, but that post seems a bit hostile to me
       
      #66 Calhoun, Feb 13, 2018
      Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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    7. RedAlert_007

      RedAlert_007 Former SMD Community Mentor

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      My argument has nothing to do with forum changes, moderation or enforcement of rules, please read my actual post before you jump the assumption that I am attacking SMD and its staff.

      Also if you read my post you would be able to anser that question about the alpha argument yourself.
       
    8. YamiHikari

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      The fact that they're still here poking the fire and reading such posts pretty much means they either already came back or never left. And if neither of these things are true, their obsession with remaining involved in the forum still pretty much says, in plain terminator terms, "I'll be back."
       
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    9. Az14el

      Az14el Lord Procrastinator General

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      We basically got delivered a release patch that breaks some of the most important social features in the game, that is, how our ships interact with eachother. But lets stop this whole thread and argue over who's being a meanie, cool stuff

      or just accept the harsh complaints as a result of a harsh update
       
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    10. Calhoun

      Calhoun Part-time God

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      Character assassination, reborted
       
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    11. kulbolen

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      it could also mean a number of other things but those would be inconvenient to the argument.
       
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    12. Az14el

      Az14el Lord Procrastinator General

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      for what its worth, a lot of us havn't even "left" and never planned too, there's like a handful of people making dramatic exit threads for a variety of (sometimes pretty laughable) reasons and some maybe reading a bit much into that as some kind of "pvper movement", for whatever reason. Of those that really have moved on, not many really have seemed to care enough to mention it.

      That said, no 2.0 patch so far has really been worth my time to play online much, because 1; i can't find people with half working scanning systems (still no navigation data feed) 2; i can't build how i want (a lot of decorative/exposed systems and relatively compact/utilitarian guts, look in my CC for an idea), 3; i can't shoot people (or anybodys 2.0 creations for that matter, AI is just broken against anything with new systems in online play as of .334), let alone stop them from just jumping away, beyond building a ship, mining endlessly, and fighting a bunch of isanths, there's pretty much nothing to do that isn't hampered by bugs or broken mechanics.

      So myself, probably a lot of other "bitter vets", just dont really have much to do in the current patch beyond figure out what just doesn't work & be disappointed about it. Which didn't take long for a lot of people.
       
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    13. Thadius Faran

      Thadius Faran #1 Top Forum Poster & Raiben Jackpot Winner

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      Oh no, we've pretty much stopped playing, we're just still trying to point out the major flaws in hopes that Schine will finally notice and do something.

      It's pretty much a hopeless effort considering they seem deadset but still.
       
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    14. Dire Venom

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      +1
      I would suspect many of us don't boot up the game for much but seeing if updates are any good, and then go spend their time elsewhere.

      Beyound making cool hulls theres pretty much 0 to do with the new update, other than hope it becomes less abrasive and limiting.
       
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    15. MacThule

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      This is all good info, but these people are making it very clear they are leaving without even seriously testing the updates. They are leaving either purely because of the toxic drama being perpetrated by the doom platoon, or resigning purely based on 2nd-hand accounts and floods of hyperbole. Leaving because they have been convinced by the loud minority on the docks chanting "Starmade is dead! All they veterans say it! Starmade is dead! Doom, doom, doom!"

      Successful propaganda campaign is successful.

      Also, so what. Not that individuals don't matter, but if someone allows themselves to be misled by emotive rants and bases their opinion of a thing entirely on the words of pundits without finding out firsthand, then they cannot be helped anyway. The reality is that only a minority are having serious trouble adapting... but they have swayed a much larger group with their social media campaign.

      It doesn't take a horde to Alpha though, especially at this point in development. Schine seems to be getting very close to going Beta now, and when that happens Starmade will see a massive influx of new players.
       
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    16. Az14el

      Az14el Lord Procrastinator General

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      even just the posts on this page alone paint a very different story, there are a few who have supposedly left, many just aren't playing now because the gamestate isn't currently worth their time for a variety of game impacting reasons, i outlined mine above. These impact the basic testing i want to do on system 2.0 builds in the first place so it is very limiting as to what I can do online. I have no doubt that a lot of people playing for the combat & related engineering side of gameplay feel the same.
       
      #76 Az14el, Feb 13, 2018
      Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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    17. kulbolen

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      its entirely possible that they are leaving because they dont enjoy the game.
       
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    18. The Judge

      The Judge Local Trinovan Cancer

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      Several dozen compared to the about 100 players per day is very, very large to the playerbase.
       
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    19. RedAlert_007

      RedAlert_007 Former SMD Community Mentor

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      Good luck marketing your game 1-2 years down the line when it has a 6 year reputation of being a buggy broken mess, a dead community and plenty of other games in the same genre which are superior to StarMade in both development and community.

      If StarMade was one of maybe half a dozen games in its genre then maybe your statement would be accurate, however there are many games with StarMade's kind of gameplay that even now are much more complete and have much larger sustained communities then StarMade, games like Avorion, Empyrion and even the upcoming Dual Universe (assuming they deliver on their promises) just to name a few.

      People are not going to come to StarMade when its hit beta, those players are going to other, superior titles.
       
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    20. FlyingDebris

      FlyingDebris Vaygr loves my warhead bat.

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      I hate to break it to you but we tested the updates very thoroughly. It seems like most everyone who cares to put more than a few seconds of thought into their ships is coming to a similar conclusion as us.
       
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