Would you call cannon-cannon-effect weapons "tier 3"?

[Winterhome]

<snip>

Read the configs, get your numbers right before you try to tell us how weapons math works. I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about at this point.

 

[-Moose-]

While your math may be true. A "tier 3" weapon with 3 blocks is objectively worse than a "tier 1" weapon with twenty blocks. It is the amount of blocks that matter. Saying a weapon is "tiered" is meaningless.

If you want to communicate accurately just say it is a 100 block cannon/cannon/ion or a 100 block anti shield cannon. Give details or purposes.

 

[NeonSturm]

Read the configs, get your numbers right before you try to tell us how weapons math works.

ION: 200% damage to shields == 100% damage to shields for 50% power with 50% blocks.
P* : 200% damage to hull == 100% damage to hull for 50% power with 50% blocks.
I may confuse punch and pierce because they sound similar.

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about at this point.

And I think you discredited me in your last post without even understanding rather than ask without blaming me being incorrect.​

[doublepost=1473182905,1473182821][/doublepost]

While your math may be true. A "tier 3" weapon with 3 blocks is objectively worse than a "tier 1" weapon with twenty blocks. It is the amount of blocks that matter. Saying a weapon is "tiered" is meaningless.

If you want to communicate accurately just say it is a 100 block cannon/cannon/ion or a 100 block anti shield cannon. Give details or purposes.

I gave you "ratios".
1-1-1 vs 2-2-2 can also mean 100-100-100 vs 200-200-200 which negates the number of computer blocks.​

 

[Winterhome]

ION: 200% damage to shields == 100% damage to shields for 50% power with 50% blocks.
P* : 200% damage to hull == 100% damage to hull for 50% power with 50% blocks.
I may confuse punch and pierce because they sound similar.

Again. Read the fucking configs before trying to talk about ratios and effects.

 

[Gasboy]

If you have a cannon-cannon-punch weapon, you can kill maybe 7 blocks per shot and 10 shots per second = 70 blocks per second.
When you use a cannon-only weapon, you would be able to kill 1 block per second with just that one weapon.

Then you say: but you could make multiple weapons …
… but multiple pistols are not a machine gun - they require multiple hands to hold too (In Starmade, master-controllers).

You say that 1-1-1 + 1-1-1 is not superior to 2-2-2 (Ion, punch), but I answer that the choice given to the pilot alone separates it into the next tier/level.

If you even bothered to read my post, which included pictures, you would see that the cannon does penetrate.

As for the "choice" given to the pilot? 200% shield damage + 200% hull damage = 200% shield damage and 200% hull damage. WHAT CHOICE IS THAT? <- fr srs ansr ths.

Your comparison of pistol to machine gun is incorrect. If the normal cannon is a pistol, the cannon-cannon-ANYTHINGELSE is a fast firing bb-pellet gun.

The use of any weapon in StarMade comes down to personal choice. Some weapons are better than others in certain, specific situations. The differences in weapons is in no way equal to a tier system.

You asked a question.

You've gotten a fairly resounding NO, complete with reasoning. Most seem to agree with the reasoning behind the NO.

What's the point of continuing to argue this?

 

[-Moose-]

I mentioned nothing of ratios. A weapon with twenty blocks regardless of the tier is better than a weapon made of three blocks regardless of the tier. I see what you are doing by trying to catagorize but it is superfluous information and therefore can be dropped.

 

[Nuclear Doughnut]

I build weapons. They kill blocks. Who the hell cares? Weapons Tiers don't exist for a reason. Because no matter what, Your ship is going to die XD

 

[HorribleHedgehog]

 

[Jaaskinal]

"When I persuade people, it's right, when other's do it, it's misleading, waaaahh!!1!"

Just stop and save some face.

You think we don't read your posts, but we do. We do it, despite the fact that you intentionally make them hard to read, by making them look like ass, and using your own god-forsaken version of the English language. In addition to that, you're ambiguous as fuck a lot of the time, you almost never specify what you mean, and use it as a straw man to sweep aside peoples arguments against you.

And after all that, after all the annoyance you put us through, after we craft clear, concise arguments against you, you choose not to read them and you respond with your own false vision of what people said.

Your arguments are bad and you should feel bad.

Oh, also, hiding your poll? What's the point in that. Everyone knows that there's a single vote for you, and the rest are in opposition to it.

 

[JinM]

No, I want to know if there IS a categorisation - misguiding question.
"whats the purpose of the categorisation?"
Communication
(...)
Did you took my responses as added paragraphs?

Yes, you can categorise weapon systems. But you can't tier them. Do you mean with misguiding question, that your question or my question is misguiding? (Keep your thread-starting question in mind "would you call cc+effect a tier 3?" - if my question is misquiding, what is your question? The thread starting question is assuming like 3 points: there is tier system, cc+e is tier 3, and you want only to discuss what tier the weapon belongs. But you just tell me, that you want to talk about it in general and tell me that you want to know if there is a categorisation at all. )

Added responses: The one part I just quoted I understood better. But added is the wrong word, you mean unneccessary words. Well the bottom half of the responses tried to continue the discussion by stating new questions. I need some time to think about that, but cutting that new theme and waiting for a response could have helped you more for the discussion. So you see what people think of the first thing and then after the first theme is discussed you add the new theme instead of making too much argumentation ways at once.

 

[HerrColonel]

Perhaps.
Did peoples vote directly after reading the op or got misguided by the answers which pushed opposing points?
Wrong.
The expectation which others bring into the topic's arguments also counts because some do not critically think and throw in a negative post based on what they believe is meant.
Maybe I go into the topic with the expectation "tiers are technology-levels and technology depends on required infrastructure/organisation level" and I bring a point about "complexity" and "more situational choices without downside".
Some know.
And others go into the topic with a special meaning of tiers shaped by what they experienced in other games which used the word "tier".
They say stuff like

what would be the impact to game play, ai cant use secondaries right now so it wont affect fleet battles

​

distract,
fortify their opinion by explaining tier with tier and discredit other opinions,
talk about ion and punch separately without considering 2/2.

Do you really count that in?

No
I want to know if there IS a categorisation - misguiding question.
Communication
Slaves and Effects add choices. Some choices allow for situationally better.

Does "the possibility of situational adaption" make a weapon-system better than a non-modified without making it worse?
Thus making it a (categorizable) tier?, through the "possibility of adaption to one more category of situations".
I want to know if SM already IS tiered (not introduce anything new).

Weapons which can adapt vs weapons which cannot.
Example: Weapons which can adapt to the knowledge "does the target have shields" for "reducing power consumption" vs weapons which cannot.
Concrete example: (1+1+1 ion & 1+1+1 punch) vs (3+3 normal). One system is stituationally useless and using just 1 cuts power requirement to 50%

(this could be a new tier if power is soft-capped at 2 million and more requires fuel because it prolongs sustained fire).​

Exactly what I tried to do.
Did you took my responses as added paragraphs?​

Is color for grammar?

What a dense shit
and still nonsense

 

[JinM]

Can you guys talk this unpolite to your daddy too pls? And not to a complete stranger in the internet. He might be 12 years old, grats about how hard you owned that one. Do you know him? If you don't know him you have no right to insult him.

I mean is it so complicated to write "hey can you just not format your text pls, some underlining is enough", no you guys can't do that. You have 2 roads. You take the road you are able to hurt some1 on. Must make you feel better as person does it? "Hurting some1 allways makes me feel good.", is this what came to your mind when you wrote that? Because it should come next time you do it again.

Pls keep the quality of discussion and talk on a good and mature level.

 

[HerrColonel]

Can you guys talk this unpolite to your daddy too pls? And not to a complete stranger in the internet. He might be 12 years old, grats about how hard you owned that one. Do you know him? If you don't know him you have no right to insult him.

Debate is argument against argument. Why can't you tell something is stupid without being a keyboard warrior? This over-emotionnalism is keeping us far away from any real debate

 

[-Moose-]

Ad hominem attacks detract from debate and only cause more emotionalism. We can debate civilly.

 

[DrTarDIS]

Level, what is level? Level is if it is stronger. It can also cost more and adds unused overkill.
...
If you mix up cannons and beams, you require a more complex factory to build both types - it's a higher tier (Technology).

I think the Tier you are thinking of is described by Block Count. Specializations outside of Block Count do not alter Damage per Second, although they DO alter Alpha Strike Potential.
Star made by it's nature can only be compared in "tiers" as you put it via larger and larger groupings of blocks.
Other "tiers" DO exist for weapons, but only when looking at a specific aspect of those weapons. As I said above, I prefer tier them based on their engagement range. You can also tier them based on aim difficulty, chance to be avoided, chance to be countered, projectile speed, etc.
Example: Beams are Tier 4 when it comes to accuracy. you point, you click, they JUST HIT. Where missile/cannon would be tier 1 due to difficulty tracking your target.

You seem to be thinking of Tiers in typical JRPG form, this is incompatible with starmade. Different type of grind, different type of game.

 

[Lecic]

He turned being able to view the poll results off :|

 

[DrTarDIS]

He turned being able to view the poll results off :|

 

[Jaaskinal]

Can you guys talk this unpolite to your daddy too pls? And not to a complete stranger in the internet. He might be 12 years old, grats about how hard you owned that one. Do you know him? If you don't know him you have no right to insult him.

I mean is it so complicated to write "hey can you just not format your text pls, some underlining is enough", no you guys can't do that. You have 2 roads. You take the road you are able to hurt some1 on. Must make you feel better as person does it? "Hurting some1 allways makes me feel good.", is this what came to your mind when you wrote that? Because it should come next time you do it again.

Pls keep the quality of discussion and talk on a good and mature level.

Have you considered the fact that people said that months ago? People have been pretty consistently mentioning that his formatting is hard to read and that he should just write like everyone else.

 

[Gasboy]

Have you considered the fact that people said that months ago? People have been pretty consistently mentioning that his formatting is hard to read and that he should just write like everyone else.

It's no excuse for personal attacks.

 

[DrTarDIS]

It's no excuse for personal attacks.

The internet is not a safe space. Grow skin, or be bled.