What do you guys think about the blueprint system?

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    I think that it is so over powered and ruins the experience of multiplayer when we build our ships perfectly with cheats on singleplayer and upload it and buy the ship with a few buildblocked stations on multiplayer.

    This suggestion should really come later when the game has a proper survival and creative mode but anyway.

    So if we had a survival mode of the game, you would have no way to cheat with commands etc. So ships made on survival worlds can be bought on other worlds that are playing in survival. A ship saved in survival has some sort of signature indicating it being made on survival and thus anyone can buy it on any other survival world.

    These are just some thoughts I thought that could be done in the future to fix the blueprint system. What do you guys think about the blueprint system in general?
     
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    A ship saved in survival has some sort of signature indicating it being made on survival and thus anyone can buy it on any other survival world.
    *Makes a blueprintconverter to bypass suggested "survival" flag*
    *is now disliked by aceface*

    Anyhow, IMO the only thing to be changed is the instant-ship™ service of the trading-guild.
    The rest would just be balancing of prices, which will happen regardless to improve the ecenomy.
     
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    haha xD yeah it would be good if there was a little bot that built the ship 10block/sec

    then factions could say "yeah we have a titan under contruction"
     
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    This was written before mega posted so my bad for repeating, but im lacking the time to do editing.
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    How do you plan to stop people from simply changing the flag from sandbox to survival? Considering we have had things like smedit the blueprint system is pretty well understood by certain members of the community who could easily subvert that kind of flag.

    Personally I hope that we can eventually move (with the hopeful addition of shipyards) from a buy with credit to buy with blocks(using shipyard storage to supply the blocks so we aren't limited by inventory limits like now). So if you want a ship with loads of hard hull you have to make the hard hull first and all that comes with it.

    You place the blueprint in a shipyard slot and after a certain amount of time (probably dependent on block amounts) you get a complete ship.

    So what would this mean for starmade? No making huge blocks of resources to spawn in as blueprints and no pulling a titan out of thin air with the power of money. And the concern you had, just spawning a large ship after you build block a few stations is fixed too. Build blocking stations isn't going to give you the systems you need to build a reasonably sized ship.

    As always, suggestions welcome.

    Oh and on blueprints, I'd like a option for servers so that to spawn a ship you must physically obtain a blueprint. The ship builder can make as many blueprints as they want and sell them, or keep them for themselves and spawn ships with a "no blueprinting" option so they can have their ships protected while still being able to sell them. This means anyone who wants to sell ships in game as an RP option or etc can do so and gain money from it.
     

    lupoCani

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    I too agree that the current blueprint system is fundamentally flawed, and yes, we should be using shipyards instead. However, I dislike the charge-and-spawn system. There's no reason automated block-by-block building couldn't work just as well, and it would provide much higher modularity, not to mention visual awesomeness. The fundamental concept is just what this game needs, however.
     
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    There's nothing wrong with the current blueprint system, but a shipyard that builds ships would be cool.
     

    lupoCani

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    Nothing wrong? It completely defeats the concept of shop stock, offers unlimited cash-to-block conversion, removes all incentive for supply and infrastructure for building ships, and has been officially stated to be a soon-to-be-gone placeholder for a more balanced mass-production mechanic.
     
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    Well yeah these suggestions are cool but you're killing some factions here with the amount of work needed to produce just one single ship. I personally won't mind cuz the CR has a stockpile of sub cruiser sized ships which would be very easy to produce not to mention our new cargo ship would have an actual use. Just trying to point out that some factions like the TE or Vaygr might not really like the change due to them relying on ships mostly above 20k mass. ( people who played on servers where BPs are bought with blocks will know)
     
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    Well yeah these suggestions are cool but you're killing some factions here with the amount of work needed to produce just one single ship. I personally won't mind cuz the CR has a stockpile of sub cruiser sized ships which would be very easy to produce not to mention our new cargo ship would have an actual use. Just trying to point out that some factions like the TE or Vaygr might not really like the change due to them relying on ships mostly above 20k mass. ( people who played on servers where BPs are bought with blocks will know)
    If it is too difficult to produce blocks for a ship is that not a failure of the crafting system? (ie. too much time required to get reasonable results) You shouldn't have to poof blocks out of mallet-space to build larger ships. If people dislike the idea of either 1. Crafting their own blocks or 2. Buying them from another group then they will just have to deal with it. A complex market system (for both individual players and factions) might also be a good idea, need more thought. And sleep. Will talk again tomorrow.
     

    lupoCani

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    Well yeah these suggestions are cool but you're killing some factions here with the amount of work needed to produce just one single ship. I personally won't mind cuz the CR has a stockpile of sub cruiser sized ships which would be very easy to produce not to mention our new cargo ship would have an actual use. Just trying to point out that some factions like the TE or Vaygr might not really like the change due to them relying on ships mostly above 20k mass. ( people who played on servers where BPs are bought with blocks will know)
    If work as in procure the needed blocks, then alright, if those factions don't have the infrastructure to support their rate of expansion, then it will and should be problematic. That's half the point.
     
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    If work as in procure the needed blocks, then alright, if those factions don't have the infrastructure to support their rate of expansion, then it will and should be problematic. That's half the point.
    You can't blame them because the way the game is right now there really isn't a need for infrastructure
     

    lupoCani

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    Maybe not, but we really can't take the well-being of established systems into account when updating game mechanics if we want to get anywhere.
     
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    Perhaps a compromise? We could have shipyards, and there are different ways they could be used. By putting blocks into them, it would build ships for the cost of the blocks and be faster than method 2. Method 2 is that you use credits and it builds the blueprint at ~75% speed with about a 25% price increase. That way, using blocks is more effective, but credits are still a universal currency, as they should be. Of course, the economy would need to be overhauled for this, and the percentages would be configurable, as well as the option to disable block construction, credit construction, or both for a non-bluepront server.
     
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    Ithirahad

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    Perhaps a compromise? We could have shipyards, and there are different ways they could be used. By putting blocks into them, it would build ships for the cost of the blocks and be faster than method 2. Method 2 is that you use credits and it builds the blueprint at ~75% speed with about a 25% price increase. That way, using blocks is more effective, but credits are still a universal currency, as they should be. Of course, the economy would need to be overhauled for this, and the percentages would be configurable, as well as the option to disable block construction, credit construction, or both for a non-blueprint server.
    Yeah, this sounds good...
     

    Crimson-Artist

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    Perhaps a compromise? We could have shipyards, and there are different ways they could be used. By putting blocks into them, it would build ships for the cost of the blocks and be faster than method 2. Method 2 is that you use credits and it builds the blueprint at ~75% speed with about a 25% price increase. That way, using blocks is more effective, but credits are still a universal currency, as they should be. Of course, the economy would need to be overhauled for this, and the percentages would be configurable, as well as the option to disable block construction, credit construction, or both for a non-bluepront server.
    I had a very similar idea. In mine the current system is preserved but a large "service" charge is added on to insta-spawn a ship from the trading guild. This would steer players toward the shipyard spawning method but still allow the quick convince of getting your ship instantly provided you have the cash.
     
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    I want "3D printer" style shipyards; where you provide the raw materials (e.g. ores and not blocks, because there's too many different types of blocks to fit them all in an inventory at the same time). If attached to a station with a shop; any materials you didn't provide would be auto-purchased from the shop by the shipyard.

    Different shipyards would be different sizes, the same as the current docking/docking module system. Actually; it could just be a docking area, some astro-techno-beamo turrets, and a "shipyard computer" to control the astro-techno-beamo turrets and some storage.

    A medium sized shipyard wouldn't be able to build a huge ship (and can only build ships that fit). A huge shipyard would do more "blocks per second" than a small shipyard; and consume more power.

    The trading guild's shops would have medium sized shipyards (mostly for newer players that don't have many resources yet). Players would have to build larger shipyards if they want something that can handle larger ships.

    When being built by a shipyard, the ship can't be removed from the shipyard (no undock until completion) and would be vulnerable to enemy fire (excluding protected sectors and faction home bases). When the ship is finished the shipyard would set ship's faction module before allowing it to be undocked, so that people don't camp shipyards and steal people's ships.

    The shipyard would also give you the ability to de-construct a ship, repair a damaged ship back to what the blueprint says it should be, and transform a ship from one blueprint to another.
     

    lupoCani

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    Perhaps a compromise? We could have shipyards, and there are different ways they could be used. By putting blocks into them, it would build ships for the cost of the blocks and be faster than method 2. Method 2 is that you use credits and it builds the blueprint at ~75% speed with about a 25% price increase. That way, using blocks is more effective, but credits are still a universal currency, as they should be. Of course, the economy would need to be overhauled for this, and the percentages would be configurable, as well as the option to disable block construction, credit construction, or both for a non-bluepront server.
    Could work, I suppose, but even though it would reduce the issue, the core mechanic allowing for blocks to be created out of nowhere would remain. I do believe this is something the game needs to rid itself of entirely, not just make a bit less practical.

    I want "3D printer" style shipyards; where you provide the raw materials (e.g. ores and not blocks, because there's too many different types of blocks to fit them all in an inventory at the same time). If attached to a station with a shop; any materials you didn't provide would be auto-purchased from the shop by the shipyard.

    Different shipyards would be different sizes, the same as the current docking/docking module system. Actually; it could just be a docking area, some astro-techno-beamo turrets, and a "shipyard computer" to control the astro-techno-beamo turrets and some storage.

    A medium sized shipyard wouldn't be able to build a huge ship (and can only build ships that fit). A huge shipyard would do more "blocks per second" than a small shipyard; and consume more power.

    The trading guild's shops would have medium sized shipyards (mostly for newer players that don't have many resources yet). Players would have to build larger shipyards if they want something that can handle larger ships.

    When being built by a shipyard, the ship can't be removed from the shipyard (no undock until completion) and would be vulnerable to enemy fire (excluding protected sectors and faction home bases). When the ship is finished the shipyard would set ship's faction module before allowing it to be undocked, so that people don't camp shipyards and steal people's ships.

    The shipyard would also give you the ability to de-construct a ship, repair a damaged ship back to what the blueprint says it should be, and transform a ship from one blueprint to another.
    That's pretty much what I would want as well, especially the part about shops having small-built in shipyards, allowing the current blueprint system to continue existing in a much more balanced way. I have personally imagined that particular part not as shops having actual shipyards, but rather projecting construction beams of sorts from their rings. These would not have a size limit for the ship they build, but be way slow to build anything big in a reasonable amount of time. They would draw materials from the shop's stock, and require payment equal to, say, 110% of the total block price. For further awesomeness, I'd like to see such beams do other things as well, such as tear apart pirates or repair trading guild ships in the vicinity.

    Also, why should shipyards use ores? Just let them draw materials from linked storage blocks and the inventory problem is solved.

    And before anyone tries to say otherwise, no, block-by-block shipyards would not induce mentionable lag.
     
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    Yeah ship yards could have really big factories and recieve resources from random trading guild ships to produce blocks for this so called 3d printer
     

    lupoCani

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    Are you being serious or sarcarstic? The first half of your reply implies the former, the second does the latter.