Weapons dps depending range

[Scypio]

Okay, i got this one on my mind since a couple of time.

I cannot like the fact that weapons got the same dps regardless of their range. This mechanic mean that you just got to take the highest range and then kite your opponent. This strategy could be a way to play, not the best, we got no advantages to build a low range ship while long range ship are much better.

So, simply divide the dps by the max sector range of the current weapons. For example 100% Missile/beam would get their damage divided by 4.8 while 100% beam/cannon get their dps divided by 0.5, meaning it's twice the current dps.

You got rewards for using low range weapons and being less safier than using long range weapons. But you still can be kited by long range ship. The place saved can be used to add more tanky things or thrusts to get closer to your target and long range ships would need to use more space on their weapons and be less tanky than currently.

Though ?

 

[Lukwan]

This would be a good way to tweak beams. The logic here makes sense for beam and cannon weapons, but I think missiles should be balanced in a different way if this gets implemented.

Playing with range-modifiers would be an alternative method of attaining balance between weapon types.

I like this idea.

Here is a different spin on the concept (block-based):

Introduce a 'Short-range Boost-module' {increases damage with proximity} as a tertiary weapon effect block. Then you can custom-design a weapon system for close-range killing. (If used on missiles it could have a trade-off with maximum range.)

 

[Scypio]

Adding a block isn't what's needed. Short range killing machine won't be used if your opponent can shoot you hard two or three times while you're running at him, that's just going halfway.

Decreasing damage with range is a good way to balance weapons between them but mostly slaves inside weapons themselves. I just took the basic thing and put it here, dividing the dps by the range in sectors. This can be changed of course, like half of this value or something else that suit the desired taste. Weapons base stats can be changed too, it's not like weapons should be different to add choice between them, actually it's not the case. Just take the longest weapons in their categories, aka with beams slaves, and sometimes cannon slaves for constant damage against the shield.

Here we get one more, get a long range weapon, safier but with an overall lower dps or take more risk being closer and hit harder. Not to mention that this change ship's design where long range ship will get bigger weapons and lighter defenses (if you want to keep the same dps) while low range ship will get more space to choose what to do with (again, the same dps)

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I wish you could apply simple logic like adding or directing power to the weapons for range and power control. You would need to balance the power input or they become explosive due to overheating and overloading.

The whole missile system is a bit magical in that you can continuously generate missiles. Would be nice if you had a limit instead of cool down.

 

[aRottenKomquat]

The whole missile system is a bit magical in that you can continuously generate missiles. Would be nice if you had a limit instead of cool down.

I wouldn't mind buffing missile damage in exchange for having to store a fixed supply of missiles somewhere. But as I recall the community is a bit divided on requiring ammo though.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I must admit, having magical missile launchers is handy for turrets.

 

[Nickizzy]

Haven't you tried large scale pulse weapons? The AOE is great!

 

[Lukwan]

Would be nice if you had a limit instead of cool down.

Oooooooooooooooooooh Ida know... I think we need to keep some cool-down on missiles or there will be spam-abuse.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Oooooooooooooooooooh Ida know... I think we need to keep some cool-down on missiles or there will be spam-abuse.

If you can afford to SPAM, then I don't see the problem. Just means, if you miss, you will have nothing left to continue missile attacks.

It would force better management of your resources the same way we are forced to manage our harvesting resources for building. If you manufacture to many useless items with material you need for something important like shields, it hits home pretty quick.

With limits, you would need to reload or rearm at a Weapons depot or something. Meaning you withdraw or continue using energy weapons.

Otherwise we just make up an excuse for the unlimited missile magic by explaining it away as some kind of energy based missile. Which is pretty much a massive pulse weapon, rather than a missile.

 

[Lukwan]

I have a nightmare involving a meta filled with one-shot-kill missile boats.

 

[NeonSturm]

RANGE IS NOT LINEAR.

Close Range is above "1/2x your ship size" and above "1/2 second away" if you talk about primary guns (defence guns can be lower than 1/2 your ship size)
Medium Range is where your fleet can combine their fire power without losing formation.
Long range is "outside range of standard weapons".
​

And these zones obey different rules!

In short distance lag, reaction time and ship size are minimum requirements.

In medium distance formation and overall balance are important.
In long distance, kiting ability and hit&run are very effective.
​

Wether you are long or medium range depends on your target too, but short range depends solely on you.

 

[Dellexe]

I like the concept of weapons having different damage spreads across range, as an FPS player.

Variance in damage spread gives weapons different distinct identities, something that is somewhat lacking in Starmade, a lot of the basic ship v ship weapons feel like they play similarly, be they rapid beams, rapid cannons, or middle-reload of either. You can play pretty much the same way regardless of which you use.

Adding variant ranges would increase the diversity of playstyles by encouraging specialization of ships for different ranges depending on weapon type and tertiary effects.

This would also give Schine another lever to adjust while trying to balance the game.

 

[NeonSturm]

We shouldn't push Klingons to use phasers or Feds to use plasma to get more efficient weapons.
I like if the weapon type is just art/style, but not the weapon characteristics.

Missiles are "delayed tracking" damage vs "instant" beams and "non-tracking" cannons.
They are already different if shine would use the levers properly.
​

I would prefer if short range beams were hit-scan and long range beams have a fire delay during which you cannot re-aim rather than locking beams into short range category.

 

[Scypio]

We shouldn't push Klingons to use phasers or Feds to use plasma to get more efficient weapons.
I like if the weapon type is just art/style, but not the weapon characteristics.

But they aren't. They don't have the same mechanics, beams are easier to aim and hit (for players at least), cannon got punch passive due to their mechanics and missiles got the highest range and blast radius in the game but you can destroy them before the hit. Not to mention weapons already have different ranges. I'm just giving reasons and ways to design your ship to have lower range weapons.

Actually i don't see solid reasons to do so, build a ship with a lot of missiles/beams computers, enough to fire constantly and that's it. Safiest and strongest way to build, not to mention that you need some overdrive and thrusts to move fast enough and kite your opponent.

 

[Spartan-228]

I don't really like this Idea. I don't think you should penalize sniper ships, they are already giving up a lot for that ability.

For example, a cannon/beam combo will never be able to match a cannon/cannon combo of the same size at close range. Sure you can poke nice holes in your opponent with that sniper, but your bow is going to disintegrate under the hail of enemy fire.

Also long range missiles are nice. But do to power cost, it can be hard to fire enough of them to brake through a good point defense skreen.

And then with beam/beam you may be good against shield, but beam/cannon will eat through hull and subsystems faster.

 

[Ithirahad]

I don't really like this Idea. I don't think you should penalize sniper ships, they are already giving up a lot for that ability.

For example, a cannon/beam combo will never be able to match a cannon/cannon combo of the same size at close range. Sure you can poke nice holes in your opponent with that sniper, but your bow is going to disintegrate under the hail of enemy fire.

Also long range missiles are nice. But do to power cost, it can be hard to fire enough of them to brake through a good point defense skreen.

And then with beam/beam you may be good against shield, but beam/cannon will eat through hull and subsystems faster.

Sniper effects should come with a removal or mitigation of damage loss; other things should get a range buff but have the damage diminish with distance after a certain threshold - beams especially.

 

[madman Captain]

I like the Idea and maybe the shotgun will be usefull.