Lecic suggested that I do a thread for weapons from a post I did in my look at shield strengths agents weapons thread. As explained in my "A look at shield strengths agents weapons" thread I am for a increases in shield capacity (about 10x) to make it much harder or not possible with missiles to one shot an equal sized ship(big ships mostly). Also I agree with Vanhelzing Idea that shields could have a damage bleed through. Will explain more on the shields after the weapons Ideas so plez read full thread.
So here is a list of weapons ideas and how they could function.
Missiles: All missiles get 5dps per module added to system. No more reduced dps due to block destruction (HP system should fix that anyways). Energy to fire weapon is still 10x the amount of damage per shot.
To reduce damage to shields without decreasing missile damage itself, missiles should no longer be effected by ion or overdrive effects. BUT to still have diversity in weapons combos, punch through and piercing will now have unique effects on missiles.
Also having missile grids are ok if they are small but create problems when they are too large. (used to much as a bypass to limited radius)
So maybe missile grids will have more of a power drain then it dose for cannons or beams. Also depending on the type of support you could have an extra power usage but only when you go past a set amount of missiles.
(#barrels/primary computer) Get large power increase on top of the normal increase if..
Missile/beams: past 10 barrels to one computer.
Missile: past 20 barrels to one computer.
Missile/cannon: may not have and extra large increase but will still have the normal increase (due to lower damage/hit and not lock on)
Missile/missile: Will depend on number of barrels used. (plez give sugestions on how many.)
Missile/damage pulse: Will have incredible increase to power use if more then one barrel per computer is used. Increase may be exponential to number of barrels. This means it is a vary bad idea to have a grid of nukes to one computer. (use more then one computer).
Missile/punch through: aka shaped explosion.
Missile area radius divided by 3 but depth radius is 3x.
Damage vs armor is calculated like it is for cannon/punch through.
For example: lets say you hit a cube ship in the front (z-axis). x and y axis radius is divided by 3 and z-axis radius is 3x.
This should mean that punch through would be good if you want a deeper but smaller hole. Also like anti matter cannons armor would greatly reduce the damage (armor would have large impact when we get the HP update).
Missile/piercing: aka drill missiles.
Missile on hit will travel in a straight line a set amount of block into the ship before exploding.
Block distance traveled will depend on the %piercing.
Missile will still be effected by shield when it explodes on the inside.
Damage reduction agents shields and armor ignored is the same as for anti matter cannons.
(If shield capacity is 10x and there is damage bleed after certain point. (Thinking Bleed can't out right destroy ship but can damage it.)
Bleed damage or effects is greatly increased due to missile exploding in hull (Highly reduced bleed through if shields are still full.))
So interesting weapon combo because it cant do as much if it is at 100% but there is no damage to shields. But if shield bleed is a thing and shields are damaged beyond the point where it would take effect then they can be great at killing crew or damaging systems. Also when shield are down having a missile blow up in the ship could be crippling. There is a cache beside the shield thing. It still travels at missile speeds and in a straight line after it hits so a fast turning ship could evade when its in hull and by the time it blows its outside the ship again. Also useless agents fighters as it just past right through them and explodes quite a few blocks away. Don't have any idea atm of what block distance it should travel when it makes contact so that's something I would leave up to Devs to balance.
Missile/damage pulse: aka NUKES.
A few updates ago missiles radius was reduced and Nuke radius was increased. To balance the radius increase the Devs nerf the dps of nukes on the bases of block destruction potently that all missiles have.
So first bit is that like the rest of the missiles the dps is back to 5.
Radius stays the same as it is now.
Nukes no longer lock on.(they are dumb fired to help balance radius)
Nukes will explode at max distance.
If Nukes are destroyed by anti missile defense they still explode.
Nukes can do friendly fire to your ship.
If Nukes hit a ship they have a 3 second delay before they explode at the spot they hit. (this is to allow fighters a chance to escape the blast).
Nukes will still be slower then max speed.
When endanger of being hit or in the blast of a nuke a unique way point and warning will occur so you could evade.
Nukes will be the first targeted missiles by anti missile systems within 500 m. (may be shorter or longer.)
Nukes would get increased health (to be balanced by Devs) but would have a much larger hit box so anti missile systems can easily hit them.
If Nukes explode in open space then the damage from them would decrease with distance much faster then if they explode from hitting a ship.
Due to there increases radius the nuke would likely have greater bleed damage then other weapons. Also yes I know that at the damage they can do it could perhaps mean that a 4 million block ship could still die in one volley to another 4 million block ship even if shields where increased by 10x. The difference here would be in the speed and range of the nuke. Even a Titan should be able to doge if the nuke is fired at max range due to it being dumb fired, the warning, and speed. This would be a better balance then the current one shoot weapons combo of missile/damage beam/ion which is almost impossible to doge and shoot down. Also the Nukes are easily countered by anti missile defense which should have no problem hitting a nuke with a bigger hit box.
For nukes to be effective in this set up bombers would be the ship of choice. The bombers could lunch a weaker nuke at point blank range and run before it blows. Even a few module could be enof to get a good damage (not enof to one shoot) but the amount of power storage to use the weapon would be where there are problems.
Larger ship nukes would almost have to be shoot when the opponent is distracted but would be devastating if they hit. This means that if a big ship nuke explodes in a Fleet combat situation than it could be devastating for the other fleet but could also mean that you destroy part of your fleet if it gets shoot down not long after you fired it. (use with caution)
Cannons: To make it so cannons are a better choice agents shields then missiles All cannons now do 10dps per module added to system.
With better dps then missiles, cannons would be a better choice to take out shields at a descent range then missiles would. Also cannons would be able to still use all effects. Ships just using missiles will now have to have at least cannons or beams to win agents Ships with just cannons when it comes to dropping shields. Even with Hp update missiles would likely still have the advantage when shields are dropped thou so it is still suggested to have them.
If there is damage bleed through with shields then cannons would be average on the amount of bleed through.
Beams: Like cannons there average dps would be increased to 10dps per module added.
To give Beams an advantage besides instant hit, beams could do 1.5x average damage to shields and 0.5 average damage to blocks. And to be an opposite to missiles beams can not use the punch through or piercing effects.
Damage multipliers from ion effect would be added after the base multipliers so beams would be really effective agents shields with ion but horrible agents blocks.
For example:
(100% ion) (1.5) x (2.0) = 3x damage to shields and (0.5) x (0) = 0x damage to hull.
(50% ion) (1.5) x (1.5) = 2.25x damage to shields and (0.5) x (0.5) = 0.25x damage to hull.
If there is damage bleed through then beams would have the lowest amount of bleed through.
This would make beams the best weapon agents shields but at the cost of having to get into point blank range of the enemy. Also ships with just beams would be in trouble agents ships with armor and more so once the Hp update comes out. Beams would also not be good at bleed damage even when shields are low.
Damage pulse: Ok so this is a weapon where I don't got a solid idea on how to balance but I do know that its range is far to short to be useful to all but the smallest ships.
So maybe to start, damage pulse will be emitted from the outer surface of the ship.
Also it would by default have a range of 50 to 100 m.
Largest power drain per shot of all weapons.
Lowest dps per hit but hits many times as it expands.
Small ships could not fire the weapon and even the largest would use most of there power to do so.
Damage pulse/cannon: aka Damage shield?
Ok so the Idea here is the power drain to shoot is less and there would be a pulse bubble about 30m to 60m from the surface of your ship. Any ship that passes through it would take damage but once inside they would be safe. (room for fighters) This bubble dose not stop damage but it could kill some fighters that would try to huge the hull and don't have the shields to survive. Power drain would still be high so that you would need a vary specialized ship to have it permanently on(Power needed may be more then clocker limiting it to ships with really high capacity). Would work like clocker dose in that once activated it stays on till you turn it off or you run out of power. (suggestions on how to make this idea work are welcomed).
Damage pulse/Damage pulse: aka super Nova?
Will need tremendous power and need to be large sized as small ones wont be able to kill other ships but can create a shock wave that could cover a sector.
Down side is that it destroys your ship which to give the weapon the power to one shoot others is likely vary large.
Number of modules in the system itself is not as large as other systems due to a vary high damage per shot for every module added (no dps as your ship is dead XD ). Would still need a lot as it is not worth using if you can not kill every ship near you when you activate. The energy requirements would be in the range of 100x to 1000x the damage per shot(Devs would have to balance.) This means that most large ships could carry it as a last resort. (Ships over 1 million blocks large)
When used everyone in the sector is told to run or destroy the ship using it.
There would be a time delay and a counter would appear on other players ships. Maybe about 30 seconds but it still needs to be short enoff that if activated right beside you then you likely (without jump drive or overdrive) wont escape.
During count down the ship using it can not move or shoot other weapons.
Turrets wont shoot when in count down. (this is up to debate.)
If ship dose not have the power to activate the weapon after 30 seconds then it will not activate and the ship will lose all power and shields. (hint use EMP weapons to stop them or destroy a large part of there ship)
Also needs player to work so if player leaves the core then the weapon will not work. (maybe to stop people from aborting at the last second it will stop you from leaving the core in the last 5 seconds.)
System can not be used from hot bar but has to be activated from systems tab.
Can have weapon password protected if there is a faction module on ship.(to prevent some abuse)
Can not be used in a home base sector regardless if the base is attack-able.
Can not be used in a protected sector.
Can not be used in spawn sector.
Admins and server owner should be able to determent which sectors it cant be used in.
NEEDS to have a really cool visual and sound effect. Warning of use should also have cool alarm sounds :D.
If ever used plez make sure it dose not crash everyone when used.
Shields:
Ok so to balance some of the changes and to stop sniper one shots (They already have no shields so don't say this would allow more room for weapons.) I suggest some where between a 10x to 4x increase to the current shield capacity per capacitor. The amount of increases would be determine on if there is bleed through damage and how effective the hull update is.
Noticeable amounts of bleed through damage would occur about when current shields would be going down. This start point is dependent on what weapon is used but at the current shield levels is where most weapons will cause bleed damage. Nukes will likely be able to do bleed through from the start so bombers are going to be effective. (this means that large ships should have some anti fighter weapons.)
As a side note for shield recharge an idea could be that if you keep a balance shield recharges to shield capacitors then you get a bones to recharge speed. This is to be debated but there should be some advantage to having it some what balanced.
I want to hear suggestions on the ideas but plez remember to give solutions besides just throwing them out if you have a problem. There is an imbalance to weapons power and shields, but don't go and nerf weapons to fix the problem, we are looking for ways to balance that is not just lowering the damage of missiles. Look at my other thread I mention at the beginning for more details. (This is the second thread I have done so my typing skill is still being worked on.)
O and if you have any interesting ideas what the other damage pules/support combos can do plez list them here and also list what the effects for damage pulse primary should do.
So here is a list of weapons ideas and how they could function.
Missiles: All missiles get 5dps per module added to system. No more reduced dps due to block destruction (HP system should fix that anyways). Energy to fire weapon is still 10x the amount of damage per shot.
To reduce damage to shields without decreasing missile damage itself, missiles should no longer be effected by ion or overdrive effects. BUT to still have diversity in weapons combos, punch through and piercing will now have unique effects on missiles.
Also having missile grids are ok if they are small but create problems when they are too large. (used to much as a bypass to limited radius)
So maybe missile grids will have more of a power drain then it dose for cannons or beams. Also depending on the type of support you could have an extra power usage but only when you go past a set amount of missiles.
(#barrels/primary computer) Get large power increase on top of the normal increase if..
Missile/beams: past 10 barrels to one computer.
Missile: past 20 barrels to one computer.
Missile/cannon: may not have and extra large increase but will still have the normal increase (due to lower damage/hit and not lock on)
Missile/missile: Will depend on number of barrels used. (plez give sugestions on how many.)
Missile/damage pulse: Will have incredible increase to power use if more then one barrel per computer is used. Increase may be exponential to number of barrels. This means it is a vary bad idea to have a grid of nukes to one computer. (use more then one computer).
Missile/punch through: aka shaped explosion.
Missile area radius divided by 3 but depth radius is 3x.
Damage vs armor is calculated like it is for cannon/punch through.
For example: lets say you hit a cube ship in the front (z-axis). x and y axis radius is divided by 3 and z-axis radius is 3x.
This should mean that punch through would be good if you want a deeper but smaller hole. Also like anti matter cannons armor would greatly reduce the damage (armor would have large impact when we get the HP update).
Missile/piercing: aka drill missiles.
Missile on hit will travel in a straight line a set amount of block into the ship before exploding.
Block distance traveled will depend on the %piercing.
Missile will still be effected by shield when it explodes on the inside.
Damage reduction agents shields and armor ignored is the same as for anti matter cannons.
(If shield capacity is 10x and there is damage bleed after certain point. (Thinking Bleed can't out right destroy ship but can damage it.)
Bleed damage or effects is greatly increased due to missile exploding in hull (Highly reduced bleed through if shields are still full.))
So interesting weapon combo because it cant do as much if it is at 100% but there is no damage to shields. But if shield bleed is a thing and shields are damaged beyond the point where it would take effect then they can be great at killing crew or damaging systems. Also when shield are down having a missile blow up in the ship could be crippling. There is a cache beside the shield thing. It still travels at missile speeds and in a straight line after it hits so a fast turning ship could evade when its in hull and by the time it blows its outside the ship again. Also useless agents fighters as it just past right through them and explodes quite a few blocks away. Don't have any idea atm of what block distance it should travel when it makes contact so that's something I would leave up to Devs to balance.
Missile/damage pulse: aka NUKES.
A few updates ago missiles radius was reduced and Nuke radius was increased. To balance the radius increase the Devs nerf the dps of nukes on the bases of block destruction potently that all missiles have.
So first bit is that like the rest of the missiles the dps is back to 5.
Radius stays the same as it is now.
Nukes no longer lock on.(they are dumb fired to help balance radius)
Nukes will explode at max distance.
If Nukes are destroyed by anti missile defense they still explode.
Nukes can do friendly fire to your ship.
If Nukes hit a ship they have a 3 second delay before they explode at the spot they hit. (this is to allow fighters a chance to escape the blast).
Nukes will still be slower then max speed.
When endanger of being hit or in the blast of a nuke a unique way point and warning will occur so you could evade.
Nukes will be the first targeted missiles by anti missile systems within 500 m. (may be shorter or longer.)
Nukes would get increased health (to be balanced by Devs) but would have a much larger hit box so anti missile systems can easily hit them.
If Nukes explode in open space then the damage from them would decrease with distance much faster then if they explode from hitting a ship.
Due to there increases radius the nuke would likely have greater bleed damage then other weapons. Also yes I know that at the damage they can do it could perhaps mean that a 4 million block ship could still die in one volley to another 4 million block ship even if shields where increased by 10x. The difference here would be in the speed and range of the nuke. Even a Titan should be able to doge if the nuke is fired at max range due to it being dumb fired, the warning, and speed. This would be a better balance then the current one shoot weapons combo of missile/damage beam/ion which is almost impossible to doge and shoot down. Also the Nukes are easily countered by anti missile defense which should have no problem hitting a nuke with a bigger hit box.
For nukes to be effective in this set up bombers would be the ship of choice. The bombers could lunch a weaker nuke at point blank range and run before it blows. Even a few module could be enof to get a good damage (not enof to one shoot) but the amount of power storage to use the weapon would be where there are problems.
Larger ship nukes would almost have to be shoot when the opponent is distracted but would be devastating if they hit. This means that if a big ship nuke explodes in a Fleet combat situation than it could be devastating for the other fleet but could also mean that you destroy part of your fleet if it gets shoot down not long after you fired it. (use with caution)
Cannons: To make it so cannons are a better choice agents shields then missiles All cannons now do 10dps per module added to system.
With better dps then missiles, cannons would be a better choice to take out shields at a descent range then missiles would. Also cannons would be able to still use all effects. Ships just using missiles will now have to have at least cannons or beams to win agents Ships with just cannons when it comes to dropping shields. Even with Hp update missiles would likely still have the advantage when shields are dropped thou so it is still suggested to have them.
If there is damage bleed through with shields then cannons would be average on the amount of bleed through.
Beams: Like cannons there average dps would be increased to 10dps per module added.
To give Beams an advantage besides instant hit, beams could do 1.5x average damage to shields and 0.5 average damage to blocks. And to be an opposite to missiles beams can not use the punch through or piercing effects.
Damage multipliers from ion effect would be added after the base multipliers so beams would be really effective agents shields with ion but horrible agents blocks.
For example:
(100% ion) (1.5) x (2.0) = 3x damage to shields and (0.5) x (0) = 0x damage to hull.
(50% ion) (1.5) x (1.5) = 2.25x damage to shields and (0.5) x (0.5) = 0.25x damage to hull.
If there is damage bleed through then beams would have the lowest amount of bleed through.
This would make beams the best weapon agents shields but at the cost of having to get into point blank range of the enemy. Also ships with just beams would be in trouble agents ships with armor and more so once the Hp update comes out. Beams would also not be good at bleed damage even when shields are low.
Damage pulse: Ok so this is a weapon where I don't got a solid idea on how to balance but I do know that its range is far to short to be useful to all but the smallest ships.
So maybe to start, damage pulse will be emitted from the outer surface of the ship.
Also it would by default have a range of 50 to 100 m.
Largest power drain per shot of all weapons.
Lowest dps per hit but hits many times as it expands.
Small ships could not fire the weapon and even the largest would use most of there power to do so.
Damage pulse/cannon: aka Damage shield?
Ok so the Idea here is the power drain to shoot is less and there would be a pulse bubble about 30m to 60m from the surface of your ship. Any ship that passes through it would take damage but once inside they would be safe. (room for fighters) This bubble dose not stop damage but it could kill some fighters that would try to huge the hull and don't have the shields to survive. Power drain would still be high so that you would need a vary specialized ship to have it permanently on(Power needed may be more then clocker limiting it to ships with really high capacity). Would work like clocker dose in that once activated it stays on till you turn it off or you run out of power. (suggestions on how to make this idea work are welcomed).
Damage pulse/Damage pulse: aka super Nova?
Will need tremendous power and need to be large sized as small ones wont be able to kill other ships but can create a shock wave that could cover a sector.
Down side is that it destroys your ship which to give the weapon the power to one shoot others is likely vary large.
Number of modules in the system itself is not as large as other systems due to a vary high damage per shot for every module added (no dps as your ship is dead XD ). Would still need a lot as it is not worth using if you can not kill every ship near you when you activate. The energy requirements would be in the range of 100x to 1000x the damage per shot(Devs would have to balance.) This means that most large ships could carry it as a last resort. (Ships over 1 million blocks large)
When used everyone in the sector is told to run or destroy the ship using it.
There would be a time delay and a counter would appear on other players ships. Maybe about 30 seconds but it still needs to be short enoff that if activated right beside you then you likely (without jump drive or overdrive) wont escape.
During count down the ship using it can not move or shoot other weapons.
Turrets wont shoot when in count down. (this is up to debate.)
If ship dose not have the power to activate the weapon after 30 seconds then it will not activate and the ship will lose all power and shields. (hint use EMP weapons to stop them or destroy a large part of there ship)
Also needs player to work so if player leaves the core then the weapon will not work. (maybe to stop people from aborting at the last second it will stop you from leaving the core in the last 5 seconds.)
System can not be used from hot bar but has to be activated from systems tab.
Can have weapon password protected if there is a faction module on ship.(to prevent some abuse)
Can not be used in a home base sector regardless if the base is attack-able.
Can not be used in a protected sector.
Can not be used in spawn sector.
Admins and server owner should be able to determent which sectors it cant be used in.
NEEDS to have a really cool visual and sound effect. Warning of use should also have cool alarm sounds :D.
If ever used plez make sure it dose not crash everyone when used.
Shields:
Ok so to balance some of the changes and to stop sniper one shots (They already have no shields so don't say this would allow more room for weapons.) I suggest some where between a 10x to 4x increase to the current shield capacity per capacitor. The amount of increases would be determine on if there is bleed through damage and how effective the hull update is.
Noticeable amounts of bleed through damage would occur about when current shields would be going down. This start point is dependent on what weapon is used but at the current shield levels is where most weapons will cause bleed damage. Nukes will likely be able to do bleed through from the start so bombers are going to be effective. (this means that large ships should have some anti fighter weapons.)
As a side note for shield recharge an idea could be that if you keep a balance shield recharges to shield capacitors then you get a bones to recharge speed. This is to be debated but there should be some advantage to having it some what balanced.
I want to hear suggestions on the ideas but plez remember to give solutions besides just throwing them out if you have a problem. There is an imbalance to weapons power and shields, but don't go and nerf weapons to fix the problem, we are looking for ways to balance that is not just lowering the damage of missiles. Look at my other thread I mention at the beginning for more details. (This is the second thread I have done so my typing skill is still being worked on.)
O and if you have any interesting ideas what the other damage pules/support combos can do plez list them here and also list what the effects for damage pulse primary should do.
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