Voxels Versus Creative Freedom

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    Instead of having a ship that's hideously elongated in one direction (with a dense blob of reactors at one end and a dense blob of stabilisers at the other end), you're describing something more like an umbrella (a dense blob of reactors at the handle and a thin curved "dish" of stabilisers as the canopy) that's hideously elongated in many directions?
    I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. What I'm talking about is the fact that stabilizers don't need to be placed on a single axis. By placing stabilizers on multiple axises (tilt the angle you place your stabilizers on up by 45 degrees), you can decrease the horizontal distance required for a fully-stabilized reactor.

    (I tried to give a visual example, but for some reason this website does not recognize gaps of more than 1 space)
     
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    I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. What I'm talking about is the fact that stabilizers don't need to be placed on a single axis. By placing stabilizers on multiple axises (tilt the angle you place your stabilizers on up by 45 degrees), you can decrease the horizontal distance required for a fully-stabilized reactor.

    (I tried to give a visual example, but for some reason this website does not recognize gaps of more than 1 space)
    That's still hideously elongated in a single direction (except that the direction isn't along an X/Y/Z axis) and still leads to a dumbbell shape (a rotated dumbbell).
     

    Ithirahad

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    What I'm talking about is stabilizer placement. A lot of people, when placing stabilizers, pick a direction and go out a certain distance before placing their first stabilizer. Because this distance is usually large, it gives the illusion that only continuing to build in that direction is conducive for stabilizer efficiency. Stabilizers aren't spheres, but the gradient in the range of efficiency has a spherical shape. Starting from the center, 5 meters up is equivalent to 5 meters forward. However, 5 meters up from 20 meters forward is not equivalent to 5 meters up from the center. And this isn't even taking into account the placement of reactors, which also plays a part (efficiency is calculated based off of distance from nearest reactor block).
    ...But if you have the space to place stabilizers in points that describe a sphere (or any geometrical figure) you probably have space to move the reactor to one edge and put the stabilizers on the opposing side, giving potentially almost twice the power, or, failing that, at least reducing the power system mass significantly with no real penalty to defensibility (seeing as there is little to no armour defense to speak of, really, at least in the traditional sense that you might imagine)
     

    The Judge

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    This idea still lands us at square one with game mechanics restricting the shape of player creations that want to be effective.

    Also read more into the meta before you post about it.
     

    Valiant70

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    The whole stabilizer mechanic was created to try to prevent system stuffing, but it's clear that it has done more harm than good. We know that. Go beat the dead horse in another thread.
    [doublepost=1514742571,1514741715][/doublepost]
    As I have said before, "good looking" ships in any form are 100% possible, if you are unable to make it work then your personal lack of skill and/or knoweldge are to blame.
    I want to see some blueprints and battle footage to prove they defeat undecorated versions. Sure, I can build a ship that will swab the deck with most any RP build. Will it match a minmaxed build? Doubt it.

    I'm still waiting for evidence that ships with decorated systems in discrete chunks are light enough to be effective, and can defeat minmaxed builds. Blueprints. Screenshots. Footage.

    Offer some actual advice or go play Dark Souls while the rest of us help Schema make a mess of Starmade.

    Would it grant an advantage? Probably. Is it enough of an advantage to MATTER on any large ship? lol, no. Luck with where your AI targets, how much the lag effects you, and the quality of the pilot and the pilot's PC matter a lot more than a few thousand k, max, mass of decorative features on a 50 to 500k mass ship.
    How can you be sure that it doesn't matter? Wouldn't a 10% increase in mass make a ship easier to hit?

    What about ships of 5-25k mass? Not everyone plays at such a large scale. I never have.
     
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    I find this ironic considering the new power system is just block spam here, block spam there
    I find this ironic (and hilarious) because you may have noticed that I'm not a fan of the new power system either.
    [doublepost=1514743936,1514743634][/doublepost]And the entire thread has become an intervention. Oh well.
     

    Lecic

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    How can you be sure that it doesn't matter? Wouldn't a 10% increase in mass make a ship easier to hit?
    It's not a 10% increase. It's maybe 1 or 2%. Decoratives do not weigh a lot and on the grand scale of things there aren't that many of them.

    Like I said, does it matter hypothetically, in the math? Yes. Does it actually work out that way in combat? No, because fighting in this game is extremely messy.

    What about ships of 5-25k mass? Not everyone plays at such a large scale. I never have.
    A ship in the 5k-25k mass range tends to end up with a slightly higher % of is mass being decoratives, but if you accept that a small ship can't afford the same amenities as a large one and try to keep your interiors proportional, it doesn't really matter just like at larger scales. Of course, when you get into extremely small sizes, interior HAS to have a certain size and will cause issues, but I don't think most people think their fighters should have full interiors anyway.

    I personally think a good solution to the problem of "useless interior" would be something like MacThule's chamber interiors suggestion, rather than any sort of system that "reduces minimalism," however one would accomplish that.
     
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    A ship in the 5k-25k mass range tends to end up with a slightly higher % of is mass being decoratives, but if you accept that a small ship can't afford the same amenities as a large one and try to keep your interiors proportional, it doesn't really matter just like at larger scales. Of course, when you get into extremely small sizes, interior HAS to have a certain size and will cause issues, but I don't think most people think their fighters should have full interiors anyway.
    That reminds me - none of NPC ships use "power 2.0". Sooner or later, someone should probably start a contest to replace the old Isanths.
     
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    I want to see some blueprints and battle footage to prove they defeat undecorated versions. Sure, I can build a ship that will swab the deck with most any RP build. Will it match a minmaxed build? Doubt it.

    FCM ships (ones that look good) destroying an at the time minmaxxed build with shield injectors and such. Fight was close to even mass afaik.

    As for blueprints, ask the creators of them because factions generaly don't give out their BPs willy nilly (opsec and all)
    [doublepost=1514751966,1514751833][/doublepost]
    Offer some actual advice or go play Dark Souls while the rest of us help Schema make a mess of Starmade.
    That is actual advice, the reason you are having issues has nothing to do with game balance, it is evident by the video I linked above that it is 100% possible for good looking ships to fuck up metaboats.

    They got gud, so stop whining after "Omagawd its so hard to build compedative ships that look good" and git gud yourself.
     

    Valiant70

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    They got gud, so stop whining after "Omagawd its so hard to build compedative ships that look good" and git gud yourself.
    Where I come from, that's not called advice. It's called an insult. Either way, it's not particularly useful.
    [doublepost=1514760654,1514760294][/doublepost]
    It's not a 10% increase. It's maybe 1 or 2%. Decoratives do not weigh a lot and on the grand scale of things there aren't that many of them.

    Like I said, does it matter hypothetically, in the math? Yes. Does it actually work out that way in combat? No, because fighting in this game is extremely messy.
    I think the difference in opinion stems from our experience with drastically differing scales of ships. My experience is with smaller ships and far less lag.
     

    Calhoun

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    I find this ironic (and hilarious) because you may have noticed that I'm not a fan of the new power system either.
    [doublepost=1514743936,1514743634][/doublepost]And the entire thread has become an intervention. Oh well.
    Do point out where I said you did like the new power system.
     

    Non

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    Where I come from, that's not called advice. It's called an insult. Either way, it's not particularly useful
    It is advice and also an insult, and its certainly useful. Getting proficient at pvp in any game takes a lot of work. To assume that you have the level of skill needed to make a great pvp ship and pair it with your apparent inability to make a good-looking pvp ship and to use them as your premises for the assertion that good-looking ships can't be good at pvp is poor advice, insulting, and not very useful.